WWII nuts, What was Sweden/Scandanavia's role?

[SarichFan]

I don't know why this popped into my head just now.. but the proximity to Germany, and to Russia made me wonder. I honestly don't remember either country being discussed.

Who were they aligned with?

[Caged Great]

They fought with Finland IIRC

[HOZ]

Originally Posted by SarichFan

I don't know why this popped into my head just now.. but the proximity to Germany, and to Russia made me wonder. I honestly don't remember either country being discussed.

Who were they aligned with?

To make things short. Finland was invaded by Russia. The Fins invented the Molotov cocktail and sent the Russians scurrying back across the border. Russians re-invaded and conquered the Fins.

Norway was invaded/ conquered by Germany.

Sweden stayed neutral by placating Germany.

Germany eventually liberated Finaland from the Russians.

The British liberated, kind of, Norway and the Germans just abandoned Finland.

[Thor]

http://www.amazon.com/World-War-Dumm.../dp/0764553526

[Knut]

I visited a Norwegian Underground Museum in Oslo a few years ago... this is where i am getting this info from.

Neutral...

Sweden Allowed the Germans to walk through their land to attack Norway..... which was important because Norway's airstrips would provide good cover from British Airplanes.... as well as provide Germany with a stepping stone to attack Britain.

This is a point of resentment of the Swedes by many Norwegians.

However, Swedes and the Swedish government were also instrumental in allowing thousands of Norwegian under-grounders and citizens to escape the country into a safe haven.

[peter12]

The Swedish government also took in all 6000 of Denmark's Jews smuggled out by the Danish resistance. Huge points there.

[kermitology]

Also.. Finnish units fought with the Wehrmacht during the initial invasion of Soviet territory but would only conqueror as much territory as had been taken by the Red Army when they invaded Finland.

[Flashpoint]

Originally Posted by SarichFan

I don't know why this popped into my head just now.. but the proximity to Germany, and to Russia made me wonder. I honestly don't remember either country being discussed.

Who were they aligned with?

Finland - keep in mind they were part of Russia until 1917

During World War II, Finland fought the Soviet Union twice: in the Winter War of 1939–40 after the Soviet Union had attacked Finland and in the Continuation War of 1941–44, following Operation Barbarossa in which Nazi Germany invaded the Soviet Union. Following German losses on the Eastern Front and the subsequent Soviet advance, Finland was forced to make peace with the Soviet Union. This was followed by the Lapland War of 1944–45, when Finland forced the Germans out of northern Finland.

The treaties signed in 1947 and 1948 with the Soviet Union included Finnish obligations, restraints, and reparations as well as further Finnish territorial concessions (cf. the Moscow Peace Treaty of 1940).

Finland ceded most of Finnish Karelia, Salla, and Pechenga, which amounted to ten percent of its land area and twenty percent of its industrial capacity.
Some 400,000 evacuees, mainly women and children, fled these areas.

Establishing trade with the Western powers, such as Great Britain, and the reparations to the Soviet Union caused Finland to transform itself from a primarily agrarian economy to an industrialised one.

Link

Sweden

When hostilities began on 1 September 1939, the fate of Sweden was unclear. Eventually, even though 20 nations had held a policy of neutrality in September 1939, only five European nations were capable of sustaining a policy of neutrality throughout the entire war. Sweden was one of those countries able to maintain this delicate balance and avoid engagement in the European Theatre. Sweden owed this maintenance of neutrality to its location in the Scandinavian Peninsula, its long-held neutral stance in international relations, a dedicated military build-up and an unpredictable course of events which went in its favour. Another important factor was the concessions the Swedish government made to Germany, for example allowing the Wehrmacht to use Swedish railways to transport an infantry division from Norway to Finland, and to transport soldiers on leave between Norway and Germany.

When Russia attacked Finland in 1939, many Swedes favoured some sort of involvement in the conflict, both on a humanitarian and a military basis. Sweden's interest in Finland lay in the fact that Finland had been an integrated part of Sweden for more than six hundred years, Sweden losing control of the eastern provinces in 1809. Despite several pleas from the Finnish government, the Swedish government chose not to engage militarily when the Red Army advanced during the Winter War.

However, Sweden was declared nonbelligerent rather than neutral during the conflict and did accept that as many as 8,000 Swedes voluntarily went to Finland. The Swedish government and public sent food, clothing, medicine, weapons and ammunition to aid the Finns during the Winter War, but avoided official military involvement.

From 1943 onwards, Germany began to meet with a greater amount of misfortune after its losses at Stalingrad and elsewhere. Germany was forced into a more defensive position, while Allied forces met with greater success on the battlefield, such as in North Africa. Such a position allowed Sweden to be more decisive in its own policies and actions. Prior to 1943, Sweden's policy of neutrality was largely under the influence of German politics and the course of events that involved Germany. Following August and September 1943, Sweden was able to resist German demands and soften its stance to Allied pressure. However, despite Germany's defensive posture, Sweden was in constant fear that "the whole course of events suggested that the unexpected might happen," an attitude that was sustained until the very end of the war. With Germany's weakening position came stronger demands from the Allies. The Allies pushed for Sweden to abandon its trade with Germany, and to stop all German troop transit over Swedish soil. Sweden initially turned down such requests out of fear of inciting Germany, but over time gradually gave in to the demands.

Link

[GreenLantern]

The Finnish ski troops were to much for the Ruskies!

[GreenLantern]

Originally Posted by Hesla

I visited a Norwegian Underground Museum in Oslo a few years ago... this is where i am getting this info from.

Neutral...

Sweden Allowed the Germans to walk through their land to attack Norway..... which was important because Norway's airstrips would provide good cover from British Airplanes.... as well as provide Germany with a stepping stone to attack Britain.

This is a point of resentment of the Swedes by many Norwegians.

However, Swedes and the Swedish government were also instrumental in allowing thousands of Norwegian under-grounders and citizens to escape the country into a safe haven.

By your logic that means the French were allied with the Germans because German troops passed through Vichy France, which was still technically a French -neutral- country. The sweedes were not conquered like the French! You say... yes, but how long would it have taken? The Germans could have turned on them at any point of resistance and walked right through. They protected their people and their country by doing nothing. They benefited economically, kept their heads down, and still tried to be good guys by smuggling in refugess.

[Kipru]

Originally Posted by HOZ

To make things short. Finland was invaded by Russia. The Fins invented the Molotov cocktail and sent the Russians scurrying back across the border. Russians re-invaded and conquered the Fins.


Germany eventually liberated Finaland from the Russians.

The British liberated, kind of, Norway and the Germans just abandoned Finland.

You just made a life-long enemy. Did you read this from a serial box or something??

Finland was never invaded by anyone. Helsinki, Prague and London were only european capitals what werent invaded of countries in war. To make things short:

Winter war:
Russians attacked Finland 1939 November. Finnish soldier were outnumbered, but fought for "Home, religion and motherland" heroicly. Using clever motti-tactics and just plain "Sisu"=balls, they hanged on until peace was declared in march. Also great help came from our home troops, mainly women who worked in factories and hospitals during hostilities. "One finnish soldier equals 10 russians", was common phrase in those days, but Simo Häyhä equaled 542+.

Continuation war
The peace lasted until Germans Started operation Barbarossa. Russians got angry because Germans were using finnish territory to aid the attack, so they begun bombing finnish cities 25.6.1941. Finland joined the attack next day, with germans taking attack resbonsibilities in lapland. In december 1941 Attack was stopped in december by order from MAnnerheim. The stalemate lasted 2,5 years, and then the russians begun their grand attack. Attack was stopped eventually and Finland made separate peace with russians (soviets). The peace treaty stated that Finnish army should get rid of germans on lapland. The time was for third war in the series "War of lapland".

Swedish people helped Finland with Financial aid and sending volunteers. I thank them from that.

Estonian people send volunteers and helped FInland mine the gulf of Finland. I thank them for that.

Our epic national heroes are still among us, unlike most of the countries. I try not to forget that, like i try not to forget my grandparents who fought the war and then rebuilded Finland to the glorious state that it is now.

If you want more insigth, i recommend novels/movies:

Winter War: Novel:Antti Tuuri, Movie: Pekka Parikka
Continuation war: Unknown soldier, Novel:Väinö Linna, Movie: Edwin Laine. This movie is presented from TV every 6.12 in Finland.

[SarichFan]

Well isn't that god damn interesting...

Blows my mind how during High School 7 years ago, I couldn't get into this stuff but ever since I love every bit of it.

Thanks for the history lesson!

[Knut]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern

By your logic that means the French were allied with the Germans because German troops passed through Vichy France, which was still technically a French -neutral- country. The sweedes were not conquered like the French! You say... yes, but how long would it have taken? The Germans could have turned on them at any point of resistance and walked right through. They protected their people and their country by doing nothing. They benefited economically, kept their heads down, and still tried to be good guys by smuggling in refugess.

When did I say they were allied??? I also did not imply that Sweden was cowardly... they have always been a nation of neutrality. I was relaying the fact that Norwegians were resentful for it.. right or wrong...

They also helped the underground with supplies and safe havens within their borders...

Fact is.... the Swedes let the germans walk through and get a strategic advantage over the allies.... there is going to be some resentment. Just as people resent the French for falling so easy to the Germans.

[Fredrik]

Fact check.

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally Posted by Kipru

Winter war:
but Simo Häyhä equaled 542+.

Neato. I'd never even heard of that guy.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simo_H%C3%A4yh%C3%A4

[BlackEleven]

As already stated Norway was occupied by Germany during the war. As a Norwegian I can probably comment on some of the lesser known incidents that occured during the war.

One of the bigger Norwegian contributions to the war effort was the sabotage of the Norsk Hydro plant which, at the time, was the largest European supplier of heavy water. The Nazi regime was experimenting with heavy water to create nuclear weapons, but the work was stifled when Nowegian resistance fighters sabotaged the plant and ferries carrying the water. This wikipedia article has an excellent summary.

Norway was also the major country, besides Germany, where the Nazi's tried to carry out the Lebensborn program, which essentially encouraged German soliders to have children with 'genentically desireable' women. Since a great deal of Norwegian women are blonde and blue-eyed, they fit this category, as far as the German's were concerned. About 8000 children were born under this program in Norway. After the war, these women and their children faced a lot of outlash from the Norwegian public. Another wikipiedia article on this topic.

[HOZ]

Originally Posted by Kipru

You just made a life-long enemy. Did you read this from a serial box or something??

Finland was never invaded by anyone. Helsinki, Prague and London were only european capitals what werent invaded of countries in war. To make things short:

Winter war:
Russians attacked Finland 1939 November. Finnish soldier were outnumbered, but fought for "Home, religion and motherland" heroicly. Using clever motti-tactics and just plain "Sisu"=balls, they hanged on until peace was declared in march. Also great help came from our home troops, mainly women who worked in factories and hospitals during hostilities. "One finnish soldier equals 10 russians", was common phrase in those days, but Simo Häyhä equaled 542+.

Continuation war
The peace lasted until Germans Started operation Barbarossa. Russians got angry because Germans were using finnish territory to aid the attack, so they begun bombing finnish cities 25.6.1941. Finland joined the attack next day, with germans taking attack resbonsibilities in lapland. In december 1941 Attack was stopped in december by order from MAnnerheim. The stalemate lasted 2,5 years, and then the russians begun their grand attack. Attack was stopped eventually and Finland made separate peace with russians (soviets). The peace treaty stated that Finnish army should get rid of germans on lapland. The time was for third war in the series "War of lapland".

Swedish people helped Finland with Financial aid and sending volunteers. I thank them from that.

Estonian people send volunteers and helped FInland mine the gulf of Finland. I thank them for that.

Our epic national heroes are still among us, unlike most of the countries. I try not to forget that, like i try not to forget my grandparents who fought the war and then rebuilded Finland to the glorious state that it is now.

If you want more insigth, i recommend novels/movies:

Winter War: Novel:Antti Tuuri, Movie: Pekka Parikka
Continuation war: Unknown soldier, Novel:Väinö Linna, Movie: Edwin Laine. This movie is presented from TV every 6.12 in Finland.

I fall on my knees and beg for forgiveness!

I beg all Fins to forgive me for making such a terrible mistake and will do better to learn about their heroism.

[Kipru]

Maybe we will let this slide this time, if you write a letter of apology to finnish defence force commande Juhani Kaskeala maybe we will cancel the plans to attack your house.

It is just that there are only few things I don't take lightly in this world and this is one of them.

[CheckRaise]

A picture is worth more than thousand words.

[Kipru]

Nothing to fear anymore. We can't ski, There's no proper winters anymore because alleged global warming and more and more people are going to civil servise instead of defence forces.