Defeated by weather

[Bill Bumface]

Originally Posted by fotze

What does that make me. I couldn't even tell you what type of tires I have. I drive in the rush hour once a year.

How much are these Nokians? Can you really feel the difference they make? How much does it cost to take tires on and off twice a year?

You definitely can feel the difference. Price depends on your tire size, Pagal posted in the other thread that for his it was somewhere around $700 I think. To get someone to change your wheels, it's about $20 I think. I just bought a torque wrench and do it myself, that way I can not worry about booking an appointment and can do it the night before the first forecasted snow.

Originally Posted by The Unabomber

And it's guys like you who tailgate me while i'm driving down the road because you have "winter tires" on your 4x4 so you just can't possibly get into an accident.

Listen, if you want winter tires that's great, i don't NEED winter tires and haven't needed winter tires even though i have grown up and lived my entire life in Calgary. I'm more worried about the idiot behind me than i am about sliding, i've never been in an accident yet you are convinced that i need winter tires. How many accidents have you been in?

People should get winter tires so they can have a false sense of security and then they can go faster which will make the commute to work quicker when it snows, but what happens when all these vehicles that should be going 40 are going 70 and they crash? Oops, traffic jams.

I've already posted that people with winter tires or 4wd that develop a false sense of security are dangerous. I know that traction is still no where near what it is on warm dry pavement with summer tires, not even close.

I've never been in an accident, if I do it will probably be in the summer. I drive quite defensively in the winter.

[kdoir345]

Originally Posted by hulkrogan

You definitely can feel the difference. Price depends on your tire size, Pagal posted in the other thread that for his it was somewhere around $700 I think. To get someone to change your wheels, it's about $20 I think. I just bought a torque wrench and do it myself, that way I can not worry about booking an appointment and can do it the night before the first forecasted snow.



I've already posted that people with winter tires or 4wd that develop a false sense of security are dangerous. I know that traction is still no where near what it is on warm dry pavement with summer tires, not even close.

I've never been in an accident, if I do it will probably be in the summer. I drive quite defensively in the winter.

Why is that you care so much about what tire people have? Give it up man, who really cares. I dont have winter tires, I drive a VW Golf, I dont crash into things, things dont crash into me......... If we didnt try to idiot proof everything in this world things would go alot smoother, but no, people get up in arms about what tires everyone else has, seriously shut up

[Bill Bumface]

Originally Posted by kdoir345

Why is that you care so much about what tire people have? Give it up man, who really cares. I dont have winter tires, I drive a VW Golf, I dont crash into things, things dont crash into me......... If we didnt try to idiot proof everything in this world things would go alot smoother, but no, people get up in arms about what tires everyone else has, seriously shut up

Why is it that I'm replying to questions that were asked directly to me you mean? I heard that's how conversations work. You yourself just asked me a question in your post, and I'll answer it. I car because it's a very cheap way to greatly improve road safety in my opinion.

If you got tired reading the arguments going back and forth in here, move along to another thread, you aren't wanted here.

[The Yen Man]

Although it is true that nothing prevents accidents better than being a good driver, you have to agree that having winter tires is better than not having them, no matter how good of a driver you are. If you combine both good driving with winter tires, then that gives you the lowest chance of being in an accident.

I think what Hulk is trying to argue is that if everyone had winter tires on, it'd be a safer situation all around. Not everyone's a good driver. You might as well mitigate part of the bad driving by taking other preventative measures, like getting tires that give you a shorter stopping distance. Even if you're a good driver, sometimes s**t just happens, no matter how good you claim yourself to be. In those situations, winter tires give you a better chance of coming out of that unscathed vs. All seasons.

[Eddie Bronze]

I drove last winter with summer tires and never had an accident. It can be done!
Winter tires on this year and the difference is now I can actually stop when I press the breaks instead of skidding 10 feet.

[Bill Bumface]

Originally Posted by The Yen Man

Although it is true that nothing prevents accidents better than being a good driver, you have to agree that having winter tires is better than not having them, no matter how good of a driver you are. If you combine both good driving with winter tires, then that gives you the lowest chance of being in an accident.

I think what Hulk is trying to argue is that if everyone had winter tires on, it'd be a safer situation all around. Not everyone's a good driver. You might as well mitigate part of the bad driving by taking other preventative measures, like getting tires that give you a shorter stopping distance. Even if you're a good driver, sometimes s**t just happens, no matter how good you claim yourself to be. In those situations, winter tires give you a better chance of coming out of that unscathed vs. All seasons.

Exactly! If I could have worded it that well this thread may have been a few pages shorter.

Eddie, what kind of car was it? Did you have AWD or something? Last year I got caught by a surprise skiff of snow when I still had my summers on (Pirelli P Zero Rossos). Luckily I was just a 2 minute drive from home, but I could barely make it up the slightest grade. I was surprised how brutal they were. This year the same thing happened, but on Kumho Ecsta MX's and it was much more doable, although still pretty shakey going (sliding) down the ramp into my parkade.

[Eddie Bronze]

Originally Posted by hulkrogan

Eddie, what kind of car was it? Did you have AWD or something?

It's an 07 Mitsu Eclipse. No AWD in those. The tires were pretty much brand new, so that may have made a bit of a difference. I did a lot of skidding but I was so used to it that I knew to start easing on the brakes way before I needed to stop. The only hill I had issues with was Bow Trail going west just past Sarcee.

But I do notice a big difference with the winter tires I have now. I intentionally tried to fish-tail it yesterday when it was bad out there and I couldn't get it to go. Sticks to the road like glue now. All I was trying to say is I was aware of what I was sitting on last year and drove accordingly. Now I don't have to be quite as careful but that doesn't mean I'm going to start changing my driving habits because I have some false sense of security because of what I'm on. There's still ice out there.

[kdoir345]

Originally Posted by hulkrogan

Why is it that I'm replying to questions that were asked directly to me you mean? I heard that's how conversations work. You yourself just asked me a question in your post, and I'll answer it. I car because it's a very cheap way to greatly improve road safety in my opinion.

If you got tired reading the arguments going back and forth in here, move along to another thread, you aren't wanted here.

Hey man, Im just saying what I think, same thing as you apparently. No matter what traffic in this city is gonna suck because there is always going to be a first snowfall of the year where people crash into one another, just like in the summer when it gets the first big rain storm, everybody panics and traffic is screwed. Im just saying that traffic in this city will never be good, it just becomes progressivly worse........

[foofighter15]

Originally Posted by habernac

I give up, you win. I'm a terrible, lazy, no good person for not buying winter tires. Driving carefully with my all wheel drive and my decent all season tires is akin to murder apparently.



Seriously, if you don't drive like an idiot, all season tires are just fine. Especially in a climate like this one where the snow melts 47 times each winter.

Don't take a dive! This argument has been fun to read
haha
I do agree with you though, All Seasons mean they are safe in All Seasons.

[Bill Bumface]

Originally Posted by foofighter15

Don't take a dive! This argument has been
I do agree with you though, All Seasons mean they are safe in All Seasons.

All season tires perform well for 12 months of the year where there is no snow. However here in BC Canada other than a few areas on the coast the all season tire performs well in Spring Summer and Fall. (hence 3 seasons) However the all season tire was designed for wet and dry driving on pavement. NOT snow covered conditions. BC winters especially in the interior require snow tires that were especially designed for slippery conditions and very cold temperatures. We are not talking about just aggressive tread patterns either because snow tires are specifically designed with very soft compounds that help better grip the road during very cold weather.

http://www.bchighway.com/myvehicle/a...snowtires.html complete with educational video

Winter tires are designed specifically to provide more control and traction over ice and snow. Most people believe that all-season tires can deliver the same performance, however, this is false. In fact, winter tires deliver as much as 25 to 50 per cent more traction than all-season tires, which can very well be the margin you need to stop in time or to turn to avoid trouble.

Richard Spenard wants my dad to buy winter tires. Actually, he'd like it if everyone did, but he says getting my dad to buy a set would be a good start. My dad's been driving for many years, but has never felt the need to buy a set of dedicated winter rubber; after all, he's never been in an accident, so why bother, right?

....

"Most Canadians changes their tires too late," he says. "Winter driving isn't just defined by snow; it's defined by cold temperatures."

....

We recommend changing tires near the end of October," says Spenard. "Seven degrees Celsius is the temperature where all-season tires (alternately known as three-season or even no-season tires by driving enthusiasts) begin to lose the ability to grip even dry pavement properly. Winter tires are necessary to help maintain your car's manoeuvrability."

...

One of the most common arguments that Spenard says he hears against buying winter tires is that it's too expensive. Sure, with cars coming with ever-larger wheel and tire sizes, it's a legitimate concern. But he points out that using winter tires for almost half the year means the all-season or performance rubber you run in warmer weather will last longer. He also says that while winter tires for cars with larger standard wheels are pricier, they're arguably even more necessary on those cars: many of these vehicles come equipped with performance-oriented tires that, even if they're branded as all-seasons, are really no good in cold weather and are basically useless in ice and snow.

...

In the end, Spenard says that the key is educating drivers that winter tires are a necessary safety item in Canada. More organized winter driving instruction would be a huge benefit as well: he says too many drivers simply don't take winter driving seriously enough. Parents also need to make sure their children, once old enough to take the wheel, realize that driving in winter requires a whole new set of skills compared to fair-weather driving, Spenard says.

http://www.canadiandriver.com/winter/spenard.htm


If anyone finds any numbers or quotes supporting the use of all seasons in winter from a reputable source, I'll gladly shut up

[Nufy]

Every year around this time, he travels across the country with Michelin to promote the benefits of winter tires. While it's partly a promotional tool for the French tire maker, Spenard's motives are good.


No ulterior motives there either I guess.

[Bill Bumface]

Originally Posted by Nufy

Every year around this time, he travels across the country with Michelin to promote the benefits of winter tires. While it's partly a promotional tool for the French tire maker, Spenard's motives are good.


No ulterior motives there either I guess.

Argue with the BC highway safety then. I can find you several articles from government sources if you prefer.

The above article was using quotes from a guy promoting with Michelin, the article itself was not sponsored by Michelin.