Muslim employee at Canada airport fights dress code

[Phaneuf3]

Originally Posted by redforever

You have to be kidding. That example shows the progress in housing over the years.

Like I grew up in a farm house in Saskatchewan without insulation too. You would be hard pressed today to find houses without insulation.

At one time, everyone walked or travelled by horse, donkey, mule, etc. Today we have cars, planes, u name it and there is some sort of device to transport you. At one time, not so long ago, vehiles never had emission standards too. Do all the technical improvements show a loss of your culture? I don't think so.

Your example merely shows progress over time.

further to this point - you're not prevented from living in a teepee if you wish and feel this represents your culture.

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally Posted by fredr123

Aside from Medicine Hat, AB you'll be hard-pressed to find a teepee. There's one Canadian cultural symbol that was destroyed by immigrants for sure.

Ha ha. Well done.

[redforever]

Quote:
Originally Posted by redforever
You have to be kidding. That example shows the progress in housing over the years.

Like I grew up in a farm house in Saskatchewan without insulation too. You would be hard pressed today to find houses without insulation.

At one time, everyone walked or travelled by horse, donkey, mule, etc. Today we have cars, planes, u name it and there is some sort of device to transport you. At one time, not so long ago, vehiles never had emission standards too. Do all the technical improvements show a loss of your culture? I don't think so.

Your example merely shows progress over time.

And further, if the person who brought up the tee pee as an example ever went on any reserve, he would find tee pees there. Tee pees were and are part of the culture of Aboriginal Canadians. The reason you do not see tee pees in the mainstream part of Canada is because they were never part of the culture of mainstream Canada.

[PowerPlayoffs06]

Originally Posted by RougeUnderoos

Can you give an example of something that has been compromised because our country has people from such bla bla bla?

Sticking with my RCMP example, when I see an officer sporting the familiar RCMP uniform I think Canada. When I see a Sikh officer with his turban, I think India under Brittish occupation. For me the turban instantly sways the image to that of an Middle East orientation and not Canadian.

Since you seem rather reluctant to answer that question, I'll give you an example.

Hockey.

That's a pretty Canadian thing, a big part of our culture and all the rest of it.

How has hockey been compromised by all this diversity?

We could get into the whole thing about how hockey is being watered down and changed in order to appease the American audience and is being taken away from it's Canadian roots. The introduction of all the European players changing the dynamic of the game to a more European style of play.

A question for you: What symbols, objects or traditions can you identify that are clearly and unquestionably Canadian other than our flag? Something that could be seen in a foreign country and the people would instantly relate it to Canada? I can think of a few solid ones.

Now think of Germans, Italians, Mexicans, Africans, the French, Scots, Irish or English to name a few... How many cultural icons can you identify with any of those? Dozens.

My complaint isn't so much the erosion of Canadian culture, since the country is so young that we've never really had one, as it is that there's no real chance for a distinctly Canadian culture to develop because we so freely embrace foreign cultures and encourage them to maintain the lifestyles of their homelands.

[jammies]

Originally Posted by fredr123

Aside from Medicine Hat, AB you'll be hard-pressed to find a teepee.

OT, but that "teepee" has to be the lamest tourist attraction on the planet - "oh look, some long metal bars leaning against each other! Mabel, grab the kids and get a picture!" It's a "teepee" about as much as Velveeta is "cheese".

[fredr123]

Originally Posted by jammies

OT, but that "teepee" has to be the lamest tourist attraction on the planet - "oh look, some long metal bars leaning against each other! Mabel, grab the kids and get a picture!" It's a "teepee" about as much as Velveeta is "cheese".

OT, I added the link so those who may not have caught the reference could bask in the glory that is the Gas City's greatest tour attraction. Kudos on the Velveeta jab.

[redforever]

Originally Posted by PowerPlayoffs06

Sticking with my RCMP example, when I see an officer sporting the familiar RCMP uniform I think Canada. When I see a Sikh officer with his turban, I think India under Brittish occupation. For me the turban instantly sways the image to that of an Middle East orientation and not Canadian.

A question for you: What symbols, objects or traditions can you identify that are clearly and unquestionably Canadian other than our flag? Something that could be seen in a foreign country and the people would instantly relate it to Canada? I can think of a few solid ones.

Now think of Germans, Italians, Mexicans, Africans, the French, Scots, Irish or English to name a few... How many cultural icons can you identify with any of those? Dozens.

My complaint isn't so much the erosion of Canadian culture, since the country is so young that we've never really had one, as it is that there's no real chance for a distinctly Canadian culture to develop because we so freely embrace foreign cultures and encourage them to maintain the lifestyles of their homelands.

1. When I see the red serge, I think of the Canadian RCMP. I do not look at the head of the person, I do not look if the person is male or female, I do not look if the person is white Caucasion or of some other ethnic background. It is the red serge. And it is the riding knickers. But mainly the red serge.

Tell me, when you think of RCMP, do you also expect everyone to be riding on a beautiful black horse with a white star on its forehead too? And what if one of those horses would have a larger white star than the other horse? Or perhaps one horse has a slightly different sock on its foot than the other (sock being any white coloring the horse might have by its hoof) Does that make one horse an RCMP horse and the other one not, even if both are being ridden by an RCMP officer wearing their red serge?

Minor differences do not make one "authentic" and the other "less authentic".

2. Please elaborate.

3. Well if as you say, we have never really had a culture, then how is that non existant culture being eroded? You hit the nail on the head when you said Canada is a young country. We are in the midst of building who we are and who we will become. Ask in another couple of hundred years what our culture is, what symbols define Canada on the international scene, you might have a more definitive answer. Then again, because we are a nation built on other cultures, you might not.

[Winsor_Pilates]

Originally Posted by PowerPlayoffs06

Sticking with my RCMP example, when I see an officer sporting the familiar RCMP uniform I think Canada. When I see a Sikh officer with his turban, I think India under Brittish occupation. For me the turban instantly sways the image to that of an Middle East orientation and not Canadian.

So the issue is that turbans don't fit your idea of what a Canadian should look like?
Sounds a little racist. I'm quite glad your idea of "Canadian culture" doesn't exist.

and India is not in the Middle East.

[redforever]

originally posted by PowerPlayoffs06 Sticking with my RCMP example, when I see an officer sporting the familiar RCMP uniform I think Canada. When I see a Sikh officer with his turban, I think India under Brittish occupation.

So according to your own words here, you have just called both an RCMP officer. Yet by your own words, for one you think Canada, for the other, you think Sikh.

So then a Sikh officer is not an honorable officer of the RCMP, just a token officer, right?

Why is it even necessary for you to differentiate and say officer, then say Sikh officer? They are both RCMP officers period.

[fredr123]

Originally Posted by redforever

So according to your own words here, you have just called both an RCMP officer. Yet by your own words, for one you think Canada, for the other, you think Sikh.

So then a Sikh officer is not an honorable officer of the RCMP, just a token officer, right?

Why is it even necessary for you to differentiate and say officer, then say Sikh officer? They are both RCMP officers period.

I didn't say that. It was PowerPlayoffs06

[redforever]

Originally Posted by fredr123

I didn't say that. It was PowerPlayoffs06

Ok, right you are.

[BlackEleven]

Originally Posted by PowerPlayoffs06

Sticking with my RCMP example, when I see an officer sporting the familiar RCMP uniform I think Canada. When I see a Sikh officer with his turban, I think India under Brittish occupation. For me the turban instantly sways the image to that of an Middle East orientation and not Canadian.

So, in essence, for you the person wearing the uniform is a better symbol of Canada than the uniform itself? In my view, the uniform itself says Canada, regardless of who is wearing it.

Originally Posted by PowerPlayoffs06

My complaint isn't so much the erosion of Canadian culture, since the country is so young that we've never really had one, as it is that there's no real chance for a distinctly Canadian culture to develop because we so freely embrace foreign cultures and encourage them to maintain the lifestyles of their homelands.

So why can't Canadian culture be a fusion of multiple different cultures? We've mixed English and French influences as long as this country has existed. Canada is a country that was created almost completely through immigration, initially European, and people contributing to a new Canadian culture by adding their own traditions and values into the mix and allowing something new to evolve. Indeed, hockey, a sport considered now to be Canadian, was created in this way. Now, because the immigration is coming from a different source, you want to close the doors and stop the process that's been shaping our country for the last century and a half?

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally Posted by PowerPlayoffs06

Sticking with my RCMP example, when I see an officer sporting the familiar RCMP uniform I think Canada. When I see a Sikh officer with his turban, I think India under Brittish occupation. For me the turban instantly sways the image to that of an Middle East orientation and not Canadian.

I don't have a patriotic experience when I see a police officer. The modern RCMP uniform looks like a typical police uniform. I don't understand what is so special about that damn hat.

On the other hand, I think that if anything, having a guy wearing a turban as part of his uniform in itself quite a "Canadian" thing, and not the other way around.

Originally Posted by PowerPlayoffs06

We could get into the whole thing about how hockey is being watered down and changed in order to appease the American audience and is being taken away from it's Canadian roots. The introduction of all the European players changing the dynamic of the game to a more European style of play.

We could get into that, but I'm not talking about the NHL, which is an American-owned business.

Originally Posted by PowerPlayoffs06

A question for you: What symbols, objects or traditions can you identify that are clearly and unquestionably Canadian other than our flag? Something that could be seen in a foreign country and the people would instantly relate it to Canada? I can think of a few solid ones.

A police officer in a turban.

Really though, what is the point of this? Are there symbols that should be recognized but are not because they've been watered down by all this damned diversity?

[feartheflames]

Originally Posted by jolinar of malkshor

The majority of traditional UK residents are white yes but many are also black. Thousands were brought to the UK as slaves way back. But way to make this a "white/black" issue.

This is about the complete transition of the British Identity.

I talked to many people that move to Canada from the UK and they feel like there entire country has been taken away from them. Forced to abided by the customs of new immigrants and now feeling like they cannot practice there own customs.

Britain invaded India for 400 years and brought back many Indians as slaves ( muslims included)- what is Britiains identity BTW??? Your rant is coming across as a little one sided- what wrong with Immigrants??? they are tainting your traditional ways???? unless you are native your ancestors were immigrants too,my parents were immigrants and I was born Canadian and damn proud of it but I am also proud of my culture- I didn't realize that my prcatising my culture- that it was inhibiting you from practising yours.,, complete BS

[feartheflames]

as for the whole Merry Christmas thing , I am muslim and have no problem when people say "Merry Christmas " at all...but Does Hannukah not run during the same time... why not everyone say Happy Hannukah.... some time Ramadan or Diewali will also fall in that time as well.. "Happy Holidays" just doesn't exclude anyone, everyone beliefs are included and nothing wrong with that, and I had 10 years customer service experience and said " Merry Christmas" to people of every religion and amost everyone said it back to me... its not that big of an issue, I just think by saying "Happy Holidays" you get everyones in the picture

[PowerPlayoffs06]

Originally Posted by Winsor_Pilates

So the issue is that turbans don't fit your idea of what a Canadian should look like?
Sounds a little racist. I'm quite glad your idea of "Canadian culture" doesn't exist.

and India is not in the Middle East.

Yeah, I'm racist...

Give it up with the minor corrections of inconsequential geography errors and try to wrap your head around the bigger picture.

When I see a turban, no, I don't think Canada. Do you? That doesn't mean that the guy wearing it isn't Canadian. Just that the image of a turban does more to conjure pictures of desert India than snowy Canada in my mind. Sort of how seeing a guy in a kilt is probably going to make you think of Scotland before any other country.

Originally Posted by redforever

1. When I see the red serge, I think of the Canadian RCMP. I do not look at the head of the person, I do not look if the person is male or female, I do not look if the person is white Caucasion or of some other ethnic background.

I look at the whole picture, and when I see the turban, like I said, to me it reminds me more of a soldier from British occupied India.

The horses thing is just ######ed. Im not saying every RCMP should have the same eye color, hair color, be clean shaven, whatever. It'd be more like every officer riding a horse, and then one comes along riding a mule or camel. It's noticeably different and not in form with all the other horses. Like an officer is noticeably different in his turban when all other officers around him are wearing hats. Not lesser, just different.

Originally Posted by redforever

3. Well if as you say, we have never really had a culture, then how is that non existant culture being eroded? Ask in another couple of hundred years what our culture is, what symbols define Canada on the international scene, you might have a more definitive answer. Then again, because we are a nation built on other cultures, you might not.

I already said we have no culture so there's nothing to erode. The rest of that statement is what I want and what I worry about.

Originally Posted by redforever

So according to your own words here, you have just called both an RCMP officer. Yet by your own words, for one you think Canada, for the other, you think Sikh.

So then a Sikh officer is not an honorable officer of the RCMP, just a token officer, right?

Why is it even necessary for you to differentiate and say officer, then say Sikh officer? They are both RCMP officers period.

Now you're just putting words in my mouth. I never said he was not an honorable officer or can't do the job as well as anybody else because of his ethnicity. That's ridiculous.

It's necessary to differentiate so you know what I'm referring to. If I used the same word to describe everything, it'd be confusing. You're just arguing semantics. It's like saying "The guy in the blue shirt" vs. just "The guy," in a crowd of men.

Originally Posted by BlackEleven

So, in essence, for you the person wearing the uniform is a better symbol of Canada than the uniform itself? In my view, the uniform itself says Canada, regardless of who is wearing it.

Actually, I fully agree with you. It's the uniform itself that says Canada, and not the person wearing it. Thus, the out-of-sync uniform of an officer in a turban rather than the Mountie hat alters the image in my mind. I don't care if the guy in the outfit is red, black, white or brown; Christian, Muslim, Sikh or Jewish. I think the uniform represents Canada and the Canadian men wearing it should uphold it's imagery.

If we had a line of RCMP officers all of different cultures, and one was wearing a turban because he's Sikh, one is wearing a feathered head dress because he's Native, one is wearing a kilt because he's Scottish and one is wearing an asooke because she's African suddenly the imagery loses it's uniformity and starts to fade.

Originally Posted by BlackEleven

So why can't Canadian culture be a fusion of multiple different cultures? We've mixed English and French influences as long as this country has existed. Canada is a country that was created almost completely through immigration, initially European, and people contributing to a new Canadian culture by adding their own traditions and values into the mix and allowing something new to evolve. Indeed, hockey, a sport considered now to be Canadian, was created in this way. Now, because the immigration is coming from a different source, you want to close the doors and stop the process that's been shaping our country for the last century and a half?

Is it really "Canadian" culture if it's all borrowed from other cultures? I'd just like to see less influence from other cultures so that Canada can try and develop something that is unique to itself, not a spin-off of things from other countries. It's probably too much to expect, given our open door policy and our cultural mosaic point of view, but I'm not saying close the doors and ship everybody back home.

[JiriHrdina]

Originally Posted by PowerPlayoffs06

Sticking with my RCMP example, when I see an officer sporting the familiar RCMP uniform I think Canada. When I see a Sikh officer with his turban, I think India under Brittish occupation. For me the turban instantly sways the image to that of an Middle East orientation and not Canadian.

If someone wants to risk their life by upholding our laws then i really don't care what kind of hat they wear.

[PowerPlayoffs06]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

If someone wants to risk their life by upholding our laws then i really don't care what kind of hat they wear.

Holy miss the point. You may as well say "If someone wants to block shots for the Flames, I really don't care what jersey they wear."

[JiriHrdina]

Originally Posted by PowerPlayoffs06

Holy miss the point.

How so?

I'm pointing out that ultimately it just doesn't matter relative to other things - such as someone having the bravery to be a police officer.

People worry about silly things.

[JiriHrdina]

Originally Posted by PowerPlayoffs06

Holy miss the point. You may as well say "If someone wants to block shots for the Flames, I really don't care what jersey they wear."

Do I really need to point out the difference between playing a sport and being a police officer?