Man dies after being tasered in Vancouver Airport

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally Posted by Bent Wookie

"We use words like honor, code, loyalty. We use these words as the backbone of a life spent defending something. You use them as a punchline. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very freedom that I provide, and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather you just said thank you, and went on your way, Otherwise, I suggest you pick up a weapon, and stand a post. Either way, I don't give a damn what you think you are entitled to."


Does that fit? Probably not. One of my favorite movies though and I've always wanted to say it.

Yep, that is a good quote.

The funny thing is he got arrested right after that for abusing his authority.

[Regorium]

Originally Posted by MaxPower

How about saying, "OK, I'm putting you under arrest for <insert actual charge here instead of silence>" and then trying more peaceful means to get the cuffs on him first?

You have to sign the ticket if the cop requests it. All it means is that you received the ticket. If you don't they have the right to bring you to the police station for you to sign it there.

http://www.blacklawoffices.com/criminal/traffic.htm

Originally Posted by website

Since the officer is charging you with a violation of law, he could take you into custody. By signing the traffic ticket, you avoid being taken into custody at that time, and are "released on your own recognizance" pending the court date. It is better to sign the traffic ticket and go about your business pending the court date. By signing the traffic ticket, you remain free and retain the right to show up at the hearing to contest the issuance of the citation or summons.

A person is free to refuse to sign the traffic ticket; however, the police officer is free to place him/her under arrest and take him/her into custody.

At this point, the guy walks away from the officer. He has to be able to put him into cuffs. Somehow, based on his behavior, I doubt that "peaceful" means would've worked.

Originally Posted by RougeUnderoos

Yep, that is a good quote.

The funny thing is he got arrested right after that for abusing his authority.

Yep. Still a great quote and I think when I watch it, I still say, "Colonel, you have some good points, but you still shouldn't have ordered that Code Red".

[Phaneuf3]

Originally Posted by Regorium

You have to sign the ticket if the cop requests it. All it means is that you received the ticket. If you don't they have the right to bring you to the police station for you to sign it there.

http://www.blacklawoffices.com/criminal/traffic.htm


At this point, the guy walks away from the officer. He has to be able to put him into cuffs. Somehow, based on his behavior, I doubt that "peaceful" means would've worked.

do you think the 'suspect' knew he was being arrested or what he was being arrested for? i mean honestly... he probably doesn't think he isn't doing anything wrong and the cop doesn't inform him of this or give him any warnings just *zap* when there was no danger at all.

this guy was acting peaceful. he was not aggressive. no apparent danger - so why the taser? especially when he didn't even explain to him what was going on.

'put your hands behind your back' and 'you're under arrest for <something>' carry a hugely different weight and would have got a much different response. also, saying it ONCE and not giving him a chance to comply and then pulling out the taser (but not firing... yet) is ridiculous.

[MelBridgeman]

Originally Posted by Phaneuf3

do you think the 'suspect' knew he was being arrested or what he was being arrested for? i mean honestly... he probably doesn't think he isn't doing anything wrong and the cop doesn't inform him of this or give him any warnings just *zap* when there was no danger at all.

this guy was acting peaceful. he was not aggressive. no apparent danger - so why the taser? especially when he didn't even explain to him what was going on.

he was peaceful..and a complete moron at the at the sametime...

[Phaneuf3]

Originally Posted by MelBridgeman

he was peaceful..and a complete moron at the at the sametime...

yup... but you don't deserve that kind of treatment for being a moron.

[MaxPower]

Originally Posted by Regorium

You have to sign the ticket if the cop requests it. All it means is that you received the ticket. If you don't they have the right to bring you to the police station for you to sign it there.

http://www.blacklawoffices.com/criminal/traffic.htm


At this point, the guy walks away from the officer. He has to be able to put him into cuffs. Somehow, based on his behavior, I doubt that "peaceful" means would've worked.

Okay, so now I know the significance of signing a ticket, although taking the guy into custody is not necessary and, in my opinion, was an ego trip for the officer, which fits with the rest of his actions. I've heard first hand accounts of people arguing with (yelling at) an officer, not signing the ticket, and not being taken into custody.

The guys was not moving in a threatening manner at all. At all.

[Phaneuf3]

Originally Posted by MaxPower

Okay, so now I know the significance of signing a ticket, although taking the guy into custody is not necessary and, in my opinion, was an ego trip for the officer, which fits with the rest of his actions. I've heard first hand accounts of people arguing with (yelling at) an officer, not signing the ticket, and not being taken into custody.

The guys was not moving in a threatening manner at all. At all.

even if the officer wanted to take him into custody just to stroke his ego, i don't think the taser was necessary at this point.

[MelBridgeman]

Originally Posted by Phaneuf3

yup... but you don't deserve that kind of treatment for being a moron.

The man is under arrest..the job of the police is to uphold the law regradless of what you and i think of it...He told the driver to come with him, its not the cops fault that the driver is ignorant when it comes to the law, the driver resisted...so tell me what options the cop had at the point to arrest the driver? Take his gun out? Physically restrain him? The cop pulls his gun..the guy prob concedes...yet you still would complain about his action...the cop tries to physically strain him...what happens when he fights back in on the side of a highway or that the occupant doesnt come out and aid the driver...what is the solution here? and please consider all the possible scenarios...the taser seemed to work and noone got hurt.

[MaxPower]

Originally Posted by Phaneuf3

even if the officer wanted to take him into custody just to stroke his ego, i don't think the taser was necessary at this point.

I hear ya. In fact, and this is complete conjecture at this point, I get the impression that the guy was pretty intimidated by the officer and would have completely folded if the officer gave him a reason and then started cuffing him.

I guess we'll never know because the officer did neither of those things.

[MaxPower]

Originally Posted by MelBridgeman

and please consider all the possible scenarios...

or the guy submits peacefully. It sounds like all he wanted was an explanation and was never offered one, which exasperated the situation more than anything.

[MelBridgeman]

Originally Posted by MaxPower

or the guy submits peacefully. It sounds like all he wanted was an explanation and was never offered one, which exasperated the situation more than anything.

Yes but as stated many times cops are trained to expect the unexpected...and when you are met with resistance once, it is a huge indication that it wont be the last time...As a cop you cant take that chance, you need to protect yourself, you need to protect bystanders and yes you need to protect the perp from himself...

Does the Rodney King thing happen if he was tasered?
You dont think cops get badly beaten and killed?

[Phaneuf3]

Originally Posted by MelBridgeman

The man is under arrest..the job of the police is to uphold the law regradless of what you and i think of it...He told the driver to come with him, its not the cops fault that the driver is ignorant when it comes to the law, the driver resisted...so tell me what options the cop had at the point to arrest the driver? Take his gun out? Physically restrain him? The cop pulls his gun..the guy prob concedes...yet you still would complain about his action...the cop tries to physically strain him...what happens when he fights back in on the side of a highway or that the occupant doesnt come out and aid the driver...what is the solution here? and please consider all the possible scenarios...the taser seemed to work and noone got hurt.

i dunno - i don't think average joe thinks 'put your hands behind your back' and 'you're under arrest for <blank>' are the same thing. do the police?

hypothetically, if the cop had told him he was under arrest, do you feel that pointing the taser at him during/immediately after the first request was necessary? how long from the first request until 50,000 volt time is reasonable if he's acting peacefully and posing no threat? in this case it was about what? 8 seconds? a bit quick on the draw and on the trigger if you ask me when there's no apparent danger - and that is assuming that the officer had properly communicated that the guy was under arrest and why.

[MaxPower]

Originally Posted by MelBridgeman

Yes but as stated many times cops are trained to expect the unexpected...and when you are met with resistance once, it is a huge indication that it wont be the last time...As a cop you cant take that chance, you need to protect yourself, you need to protect bystanders and yes you need to protect the perp from himself...

Does the Rodney King thing happen if he was tasered?
You dont think cops get badly beaten and killed?

Met with resistance? The officer hadn't finished saying "Turn around, put your hands behind your back" even once before he draws his taser. The guy could have been in the process of putting his hands behind his back and he would still be face to face with a taser. That's not protecting the perp, that's scaring the out of the perp.

All I'm advocating here is at least trying to restrain him physically before using other means, which in this case was "giving him a ride on the taser."

Rodney King? I don't know enough details to comment, only that the officers involved are complete piles of crap.

[Phaneuf3]

Originally Posted by MaxPower

All I'm advocating here is at least trying to restrain him physically before using other means, which in this case was "giving him a ride on the taser."

i'd go with proper and complete verbal instructions and giving him a chance to comply before starting anything physical (assisted by weapons or otherwise)... but i'm anti-cop like that.

i honestly believe a simple chat outside the car would do wonders
"you can and will be arrested for not signing the ticket. signing it does not admit guilt just acknowledges you received it - you can fight it in court later if you want.do you wish to sign the ticket?"

"No."

"Ok, i am now placing you under arrest for <something> please place your hands behind your back"

no need to get out the taser before the cop even gets the words out of his mouth either.




edit: just want to clarify - even though i'm quoting you, maxpower, these points aren't meant to disagree with what you're saying... there's been confusion about that before - just getting that outta the way

[metallicat]

I'm just going to say what I have wanted to say all along...some dude got Tasered, big freaking deal. More people in this world need a good Taserin'.

[Dion]

Originally Posted by oilers_fan

I'm just going to say what I have wanted to say all along...some dude got Tasered, big freaking deal. More people in this world need a good Taserin'.

Then why don't you head on down to your local police department and offer yourself up as a guniea pig for those in training to use tasers. I'm sure they'd appreciate your offer.

[return to the red]

Originally Posted by Dion

Then why don't you head on down to your local police department and offer yourself up as a guniea pig for those in training to use tasers. I'm sure they'd appreciate your offer.

he wouldn't need to because they practice on themselves....Police are tasered in their training

[Dion]

Originally Posted by return to the red

he wouldn't need to because they practice on themselves....Police are tasered in their training

I know that that. I was just being sarcastic in regards to his original comment. Just wondered how he would feel if he was the one being tasered.

[moon]

Originally Posted by MaxPower

If the police want everyone to comply and respect them etc etc etc, they shouldn't overreact like this.

I would say that if they want people to comply that overreaction would work better. I personally would listen to the cops a heck of a lot quicker if I thought I would receive a tasering or beatdown for any little rebelion. If I thought I would just get a lecture or repeat talking to I would be more likely to disobey or disregard their comments.

I am not pro-cop by any means but why does everyone seem to think that there is something wrong with listening to cops or obeying their commands.

Who cares if you know why the cop is telling you to put your hands behind your back, just do it. Ask after you are no longer a threat to the cop if you are still unsure. If you are throwing computers and acting like a jackass in the airport and the cops surround you, who cares if you speak the language or not stop acting threatening and get on the ground.

It may be severe that they died or were injured because of the tasering but ultimately it is their fault for failing to listen to the cops.

Like I said I may be crazy but I always have thought that listening and obeying the police was a lot more important than proving/arguing a point or generally not doing what they ask.