Man dies after being tasered in Vancouver Airport

[Dion]

Originally Posted by MelBridgeman

It wasn't clear at all...putting aside the grief i feel for the man and his family...it wasnt clear..I still think the cops did what they had to do...he kept fighting till the end

Why didn't the police get an interpreter? Someone yelled to the police that they needed one.

How can you expect the man to follow orders when he doesn't understand the language the police were talking in?

This whole incident stinks to high heaven.

[Burninator]

Wow the police took all of 30 seconds before using the taser. It doesn't look like anything else was even attempted. The man doesn't even look to be aggressive towards the police either. You're right Dion, this does stink.

[Dion]

Originally Posted by Burninator

Wow the police took all of 30 seconds before using the taser. It doesn't look like anything else was even attempted. The man doesn't even look to be aggressive towards the police either. You're right Dion, this does stink.

I watched the video on the news and didn't see the man fighting with him as the RCMP claimed. No wonder they didn't want to return that guys video. Looks bad for the RCMP now.

I'm willing to bet if they got that interpreter things would have been resolved peacefully. Find out what he was upset about and all. Frankly i'd be a little confused if I was in a country where I didn't know the language and the person who came to pick me up wasn't there.

[Burninator]

Originally Posted by Dion

I watched the video on the news and didn't see the man fighting with him as the RCMP claimed. No wonder they didn't want to return that guys video. Looks bad for the RCMP now.

It looks like he struggled/fought/resisted with police after he was tasered, which could warrant a second jolt. But because he fought after being tasered doesn't mean the first jolt was justified. Unless the police operate under a shoot first, ask questions later policy. It does look bad. Now the cause of death is even more significant.

[Dion]

Originally Posted by Burninator

It looks like he struggled/fought/resisted with police after he was tasered, which could warrant a second jolt. But because he fought after being tasered doesn't mean the first jolt was justified. Unless the police operate under a shoot first, ask questions later policy. It does look bad. Now the cause of death is even more significant.

He seemed to be flopping around in pain as volts of electricty went through his body - could be wrong though. You can't expect someone to be still if they're in pain.

He could also be struggling out of fear.

I hope the enquiry done by the RCMP is done by an outside/independant party.

[MelBridgeman]

Originally Posted by Dion

Why didn't the police get an interpreter? Someone yelled to the police that they needed one.

How can you expect the man to follow orders when he doesn't understand the language the police were talking in?

This whole incident stinks to high heaven.

did they have time to get an interpreter?

if your cornered by 3 cops...i dont think any language barrier is going to get in the way of knowing that maybe you should get down on your knees or put you hands on your head or whatever...

How are the cops suppose to know the guy didnt speak english, you dont think perps have pulled that no english stuff before...

hindsight is 20/20 we now know that this guy wasnt dangerous..but in the heat of the moment you dont have much time to determine that and the actions of that man didnt give the police any indication that the man was ready to surrender.

[flylock shox]

nm

[Dion]

Originally Posted by MelBridgeman

did they have time to get an interpreter?

if your cornered by 3 cops...i dont think any language barrier is going to get in the way of knowing that maybe you should get down on your knees or put you hands on your head or whatever...

How are the cops suppose to know the guy didnt speak english, you dont think perps have pulled that no english stuff before...

hindsight is 20/20 we now know that this guy wasnt dangerous..but in the heat of the moment you dont have much time to determine that and the actions of that man didnt give the police any indication that the man was ready to surrender.

The CBC aired a 20 minute documentry on this. His mother told him to wait in the baggage area and she would meet him there. Hw waited something like 7 or 8 hours for her. When she didn't show he went through the second stage of immigration. Meanwhile his mother asked 3 times to check if he had arrived, yet somehow no one ever found him - find that hard to believe, so she ended up going back home to Kamloops.

Now we have the situation with the RCMP. The man is confused, probably tired, hungry, and most likely frustrated by the whole incident. He's in a forgien country and probably scared by this point in time. Bingo along comes the RCMP.

You ask how are we supposed to know he doesn't speak english or did they have time. In the video people are telling the RCMP to get an interpreter. Chances are those people heard the man talking/shouting before the RCMP arrived. Second of all he wasn't fighting or threatening anyone. They took they easy way out and tasered him. He's dead and those RCMP officers will have to liove with that.

If you ask me the airport screwed up big time. Mother tells them where he's supposed to be and to check for him. Frankly I don't think anyone looked very hard. Took the easy way out and told the mother he wasn't there. She could have defused the whole friggin situation.

[MelBridgeman]

Originally Posted by Dion

The CBC aired a 20 minute documentry on this. His mother told him to wait in the baggage area and she would meet him there. Hw waited something like 7 or 8 hours for her. When she didn't show he went through the second stage of immigration. Meanwhile his mother asked 3 times to check if he had arrived, yet somehow no one ever found him - find that hard to believe, so she ended up going back home to Kamloops.

Now we have the situation with the RCMP. The man is confused, probably tired, hungry, and most likely frustrated by the whole incident. He's in a forgien country and probably scared by this point in time. Bingo along comes the RCMP.

You ask how are we supposed to know he doesn't speak english or did they have time. In the video people are telling the RCMP to get an interpreter. Chances are those people heard the man talking/shouting before the RCMP arrived. Second of all he wasn't fighting or threatening anyone. They took they easy way out and tasered him. He's dead and those RCMP officers will have to liove with that.

If you ask me the airport screwed up big time. Mother tells them where he's supposed to be and to check for him. Frankly I don't think anyone looked very hard. Took the easy way out and told the mother he wasn't there. She could have defused the whole friggin situation.

The guy was in an airport (should i point out post 911?) destroying property ... (chairs..computer equipment)..Poland isnt some backward country where if you pulled that off in the airport there, you wouldnt expect the police to show up...stressed or not he should realize there was going to be consequences for his actions, especially if he doesnt accommodate ..

[flylock shox]

Originally Posted by MelBridgeman

The guy was in an airport (should i point out post 911?) destroying property ... (chairs..computer equipment)..Poland isnt some backward country where if you pulled that off in the airport there, you wouldnt expect the police to show up...stressed or not he should realize there was going to be consequences for his actions, especially if he doesnt accommodate ..

The police are not there to dole out punishment. They are there to prevent further harm and ensure public safety.

[Dion]

Originally Posted by MelBridgeman

The guy was in an airport (should i point out post 911?) destroying property ... (chairs..computer equipment)..Poland isnt some backward country where if you pulled that off in the airport there, you wouldnt expect the police to show up...stressed or not he should realize there was going to be consequences for his actions, especially if he doesnt accommodate ..

Get an interpeter so you can talk with the guy. Find out why he's tossing a chair and a computer. IMO the guy lost his cool due the frustrations that had probably built up inside He wasn't attacking anyone either. No need for that excessive force at that time.

[MelBridgeman]

Just reviewed the video again..clearly this man was in some type of distress...
Also i wonder what prompted the videographer to start taping...
Secondly you will notice when the man picks up the computer monitor and was about it smash it through the glass, someone yells "Sir Sir", he looks , "NO NO NO, please put it down", he puts it down...now language barrier? If he understands that...

[MelBridgeman]

Originally Posted by flylock shox

The police are not there to dole out punishment. They are there to prevent further harm and ensure public safety. This guy is hardly blameless for attracting the attention of the police, but the police are hardly blameless when it comes to how they dealt with him. Had he been wielding a chair or computer at the time I might have felt otherwise about it. As it happened however, the danger he posed was either over, or minimal. Bad call by these officers.

Well clearly that isnt the opinion of the officers on the scene that are trained to deal with these situations, meanwhile we sit here analyzing a video in hindsight..anyways there are multiple enquiries going on, lets just leave it in their hands..

[Dion]

Originally Posted by MelBridgeman

Just reviewed the video again..clearly this man was in some type of distress...
Also i wonder what prompted the videographer to start taping...
Secondly you will notice when the man picks up the computer monitor and was about it smash it through the glass, someone yells "Sir Sir", he looks , "NO NO NO, please put it down", he puts it down...now language barrier? If he understands that...

Someone yells at you just as you're about to throw a chair, you don't need to understand a language to know what they might be saying.

[flylock shox]

Originally Posted by MelBridgeman

Well clearly that isnt the opinion of the officers on the scene that are trained to deal with these situations, meanwhile we sit here analyzing a video in hindsight..anyways there are multiple enquiries going on, lets just leave it in their hands..

What training they received will be the big question at the end of the day. Specifically, were they told "Tasers are safe" ? If that's what they thought, then they likely weren't hesitant to use them (and did not hesitate in the video). Only problem is, doesn't look like Tasers are all that safe after all. I have no doubt this will lead to widespread changes to Taser protocols in the police forces of the nation. That is, of course, if these officers weren't breaking existing protocols designed to prevent exactly the type of thing which happened here.

[MelBridgeman]

Originally Posted by flylock shox

What training they received will be the big question at the end of the day. Specifically, were they told "Tasers are safe" ? If that's what they thought, then they likely weren't hesitant to use them (and did not hesitate in the video). Only problem is, doesn't look like Tasers are all that safe after all. I have no doubt this will lead to widespread changes to Taser protocols in the police forces of the nation. That is, of course, if these officers weren't breaking existing protocols designed to prevent exactly the type of thing which happened here.

Well we only hear about cops/tasers when there is a death, or when they are used again after the death...If the cops are using them then there are things not being reported in the media..cause i will tell you cops arent out to kill people with tasers...and i have heard the most deaths that involve tasers, the death is always contributed to some other aliment/substance..anmd trust me if there was a serious problem the cops would not be using them, there is no conspiracy here...maybe more research needs to be done...i dunno...

Originally Posted by Dion

Someone yells at you just as you're about to throw a chair, you don't need to understand a language to know what they might be saying.

That goes both ways- ie. 4 police officers surrounding you giving you orders, "don't need to understand a language to know what they might be saying."


But thats not really the point. I think there is still a lot we don't know. I just saw some snippets on the news- as Mel pointed out, he was clearly in distress, way beyond just angry. Honestly, someone I was watching it with commented that he looked like a wild, caged animal.

Again, I think the focus should be on the level of force that was use or misused. It is easy to sit back and question why this wasn't done or that wasn't done. Interpreter? Maybe. But there is obviously liability issues and time issues associated with that.

Anyway, I am gonna take a better look at the video when I'm a little fresher.

Originally Posted by flylock shox

I have no doubt this will lead to widespread changes to Taser protocols in the police forces of the nation.

Don't think so. Taser related deaths have been well studied and documented. Police are well aware.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by Bent Wookie

But thats not really the point. I think there is still a lot we don't know. I just saw some snippets on the news- as Mel pointed out, he was clearly in distress, way beyond just angry. Honestly, someone I was watching it with commented that he looked like a wild, caged animal.

I don't know about that description. I wouldn't say he looked like a wild animal at all. He looked like someone who was clearly distressed. The police also didn't look like they were approaching him with the least bit of apprehension. Not even the eye witnesses said they felt threatened.

[Dion]

Paul Pritchards raw video:

http://www.cbc.ca/mrl3/8752/bc/ondem...TASERVIDEO.wmv