NOVA - Intelligent Design On Trial

[troutman]

Anyone else see this documentary Tuesday night?

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/id/?cam...day_2007-11-14

This is not just any case; it's an historic case as well as a critical science lesson. Through six weeks of expert testimony, the case provided a crash course in modern evolutionary science, and it really hit home just how firmly established evolutionary theory is. The case also explored the very nature of science—how science is defined. Perhaps most importantly, the trial had great potential for altering science education and the public understanding of science.

Dover's lawyers tried to argue that ID is science and, therefore, that teaching it does not violate the principle of the separation of church and state in the Establishment clause of the U.S. Constitution. At the end of the trial, Judge John Jones issued a 139-page verdict supporting the teaching of evolution and characterizing intelligent design as a religious idea with no place in the science classroom. It was a landmark decision, all the more so because Judge Jones was appointed by President Bush and nominated by Republican Senator Rick Santorum.

Recent polls tells us that 48 percent—almost half of all Americans—still question evolution and still believe that some kind of alternative should be taught in the public schools. What happens when half of the population doesn't accept one of the most fundamental underpinnings of the sciences? Evolution is the absolute bedrock of the biological sciences. It's essential to medical science, agriculture, biotechnology. And it's critical to understanding the natural world around us.

We're a country [US] built on our command of the sciences and technology. But we now face a crisis in science literacy that could threaten our progress in these areas and ultimately threaten our quality of life.

[MelBridgeman]

i watched, very interesting..you would of thought that the Discovery Institute would claimed that some intelligent agency was responsible for the process of evolution, istead of outright denying its existance...oh well

[llama64]

A scientific theory must be testable correct?

Which would make any assertion that creation is the result of an unprovable being unscientific. If there is a rule specifying that science curriculums only include scientific theories, then it makes sense that they would exclude Intelligent Design from the classroom.

Still, I think it would be valuable to teach the subject in some other way. Perhaps a Religious Studies discipline in grade school similar to how the Catholic curriculum works here in Calgary. That way, study of ID and religion in general remains scientific, objective and focused on understanding. Which is the point of education... right?

Just some thoughts...

[Table 5]

Originally Posted by troutman;1068727[I

Recent polls tells us that 48 percent—almost half of all Americans—still question evolution and still believe that some kind of alternative should be taught in the public schools. What happens when half of the population doesn't accept one of the most fundamental underpinnings of the sciences? Evolution is the absolute bedrock of the biological sciences. It's essential to medical science, agriculture, biotechnology. And it's critical to understanding the natural world around us. [/I]

48% is an astounding number...makes you wonder how any country where half of it's citizens don't believe in this basic of most basic science tenets can call middle-eastern cultures backward (not that some cultural elements in parts of the middle east aren't).

[MelBridgeman]

Originally Posted by Table 5

48% is an astounding number...makes you wonder how any country where half of it's citizens don't believe in this basic of most basic science tenets can call middle-eastern cultures backward (not that some cultural elements in parts of the middle east aren't).

or maybe its half the citizens have no idea what evolution really is..

[burn_this_city]

Well how about this. I saw a poll on cnn.com yesterday, asking if praying for rain would help the drought stricken southeastern US...? 46% said they believed it would help... So its really no wonder people deny evolution, it goes against "faith". A word used liberally to defend psuedoscience like ID..

[someguy51]

Sounds interesting. I hope they replay it soon.

[troutman]

Originally Posted by someguy51

Sounds interesting. I hope they replay it soon.

You can watch it on-line at the link provided above.

This issue really split Dover. Some of the ID opponents received death threats, even though most of them said they were religious.

Two of the ID supporters on the school board perjured themselves at the trial. The show does not say if charges were laid.

[Table 5]

Originally Posted by MelBridgeman

or maybe its half the citizens have no idea what evolution really is..

is it really that hard to understand the concept of evolution? I'm pretty sure i had a decent grasp on its basics by about 6 or 7.

[Bobblehead]

http://www.crosswalk.com/news/11559314/

PBS broadcast "NOVA - Intelligent Design On Trial" and distributed a kit to schools.

But:

In the booklet, teachers are instructed to use such discussion questions as: "Can you accept evolution and still believe in religion?" The answer to that query is provided as: "Yes. The common view that evolution is inherently antireligious is simply false."

And apparently this is BAD:

"Because the briefing packet only promotes religious viewpoints that are friendly towards evolution, this is not neutral, and PBS is encouraging teachers to violate the First Amendment's Establishment Clause," Wenger added.

So what are they doing?

In its news release, the Discovery Institute indicates that it has enlisted more than a dozen attorneys and legal scholars, including Wenger, to review the PBS teaching guide with an eye to its constitutionality

And:

As a result, the institute is providing its own guide for educators, "The Theory of Intelligent Design," which will help teachers better understand the debate between Darwinian evolution and intelligent design.

So to summarize, the PBS kit violates the US Constitution because it promotes "evolution friendly" religion. But "The Institute's" Intelligent Design kit will be much more balanced.

[burn_this_city]

Thank god we can debate fact, but religion is beyond scrutiny...

[Burninator]

Originally Posted by llama64

A scientific theory must be testable correct?

Which would make any assertion that creation is the result of an unprovable being unscientific. If there is a rule specifying that science curriculums only include scientific theories, then it makes sense that they would exclude Intelligent Design from the classroom.

If you are not teaching scientific theory or fact, then it shouldn't be in the science classroom. Something that cannot be studied under the scientific method is not science, and has no merit being taught as such. No matter how much spin the ID/Creation camp puts on their "theory" it's not science.

Still, I think it would be valuable to teach the subject in some other way. Perhaps a Religious Studies discipline in grade school similar to how the Catholic curriculum works here in Calgary. That way, study of ID and religion in general remains scientific, objective and focused on understanding. Which is the point of education... right?

Just some thoughts...

Keep in mind that most of this advocacy is happening to teach ID/Creationism in public schools. The only place it belongs in public school is a religion class. ID/Creationism is entirely religious. If parents want to delude their children at home and at church claiming the earth to be 6000 years old, they are free to do so. I don't like it, but they are still free to do it.

[Flash Walken]

Dover Trial Uno
Dover Trial Duo
Dover Trial Tre-o
Dover Trial Quatro
Dover Trial Sinksos

[Burninator]

Originally Posted by Bobblehead

http://www.crosswalk.com/news/11559314/

PBS broadcast "NOVA - Intelligent Design On Trial" and distributed a kit to schools.

More garbage and more spin, not surprised.

"The irony is that discussing intelligent design would not teach any student about any religious belief - the PBS materials, on the other hand, will," he said.

Laugh. When the core of their "theory" centres around a designer (god) and the "hard evidence" is largely from one source (bible) it's not hard to piece together that it is all about religion and not about science.

As a result, the institute is providing its own guide for educators, "The Theory of Intelligent Design," which will help teachers better understand the debate between Darwinian evolution and intelligent design.

Creationists explaining evolution = poop. Here come the straw man arguments or the "what if god designed/guided evolution?" argument and the jars of peanut butter.

"PBS gives a false definition of intelligent design that is a complete straw man argument," Luskin said. "Scientists who support intelligent design seek evidence of design in nature, and argue that such evidence points to intelligent design, based on our historical knowledge of cause and effect."

Wow, creationists saying other people are using straw man arguments. They clearly are grasping at straws. Also I would love to see that "evidence" that shows design in nature that's isn't the "it's too complex" argument or "the banana".

These creationists are doing nothing more than bullying their beliefs unto everyone else.

[flamesfever]

48% is probably about the same number of US citizens who neither know nor care what goes on outside the boundary of the country. Why don't they do something about this, by enhancing their educational system.

I recall stopping at a gas station in Portland Oregon and the attendant asking me if Calgary was near Montreal.

[Ayrahb]

Originally Posted by llama64

Still, I think it would be valuable to teach the subject in some other way.

I wouldn't mind if ID was taught as a part of the evolution lesson--possibly as a historical introduction, together with other beliefs/theories. Kids still learn about the geocentric model of the universe in a similar context, don't they?

[MelBridgeman]

Hey if you were brought up in a religious envoriment - its pretty hard to admit that maybe you were living a lie...besides most religious people follow a pretty good set of moral standards, so let'm be...but its human nature (evolution maybe) to fight for what you believe in..pretty hard to change people...The Theory of Evolution basically trumps all explanations in the bible..no wonder they are threatened...

But the hate is coming from both sides..religion certainly has a good purpose in society, heck even some of the most harden criminals have changed their ways NOT because of science, but because of religion..but i guess you just have to be a certain type of person.

When it is all said in done, most civilized people, religious or not follow a moral standard that has its roots in religion...But something like ID should stay in religious studies class not science...

[Displaced Flames fan]

Originally Posted by burn_this_city

Well how about this. I saw a poll on cnn.com yesterday, asking if praying for rain would help the drought stricken southeastern US...? 46% said they believed it would help... So its really no wonder people deny evolution, it goes against "faith". A word used liberally to defend psuedoscience like ID..

Evolution absolutely does NOT go against faith, though I'm sure those that you refer to believe it does. Why people can't reconcile their faith with evolution is a mystery to me. The two can work together, it's not a stretch.

That said, given the dire situation in Georgia right now, I don't see a damn thing wrong with praying for rain. I found it interesting that a Georgia atheist group had to come out and make a statement condemning the action as a collossal waste of time. Hello kettle, this is the pot!

[Displaced Flames fan]

Originally Posted by flamesfever

48% is probably about the same number of US citizens who neither know nor care what goes on outside the boundary of the country. Why don't they do something about this, by enhancing their educational system.

I recall stopping at a gas station in Portland Oregon and the attendant asking me if Calgary was near Montreal.

Calgary is near Montreal. It is also not near Montreal.

How was his question an indication of stupidity?

[Displaced Flames fan]

Originally Posted by Ayrahb

I wouldn't mind if ID was taught as a part of the evolution lesson--possibly as a historical introduction, together with other beliefs/theories. Kids still learn about the geocentric model of the universe in a similar context, don't they?

I'm all for freedom of religion and I actually get angry when atheists belittle people of faith like happens so often here, but there is no place for any form of religion or ID to be taught in public schools. None.