18 year old kills eight in a finnish high-school... - Calgarypuck Forums - The Unofficial Calgary Flames Fan Community

CheckRaise · 11-07-2007, 09:49 AM

Today, around noon local time, a male finnish high-school student opened fire at Jokela High-School in Tuusula, Finland. The perpetrator, Pekka-Eric Auvinen attended the school, and has been described as an anti-social and depressed person.

First he shot the principle of the school, and then began shooting at other people. Some students managed to jump out of the window and escape. Finally, he turned the gun on himself, but didn't quite manage to commit suicide. He is in hospital at Helsinki Centre (about 30 miles from the school), and may not survive. The gun used was .22 caliber Sig-Sauer.

What makes this tragedy even more horrifying is the fact that a day before the shooting, he had posted a video on Youtube, with the headline "Jokela School Massacre, 7 November 2007". In the video he basically tested the gun and filmed the school. He also published a manifest in "irc-gallery" (resembling facebook I believe), stating among other things his hate towards mankind, and that mankind is not worth defending, only killing. He also stated that he acted alone. "Don't blame anybody but me, this is my war, my idea and my plan. Don't blame anybody else but me. Don't blame my parents or my friends. I never told anybody about my plans, and kept them in my mind."
He also asked that people wouldn't judge the music he was listening to, games he played on computer or the movies he watched. He was a fan of the Colombine school shootings.
All videos/web pages have been removed, but there have been over 200,000 downloads.

My deepest condolances to all of the victims, their families, and the students of the school.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jokela_school_shooting

Clever_Iggy · 11-07-2007, 09:58 AM

Terrible.

This puts a big dent into Michael Moore's belief that school shootings are a US product.

MarchHare · 11-07-2007, 10:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clever_Iggy

This puts a big dent into Michael Moore's belief that school shootings are a US product.

It sure does!

From the article (and OP):

Quote:

He was a fan of the Colombine school shootings.

I may be wrong, but I don't ever recall Moore claiming that school shootings only occurred in the US, only that they were far more common there than in any other country. I'm pretty sure the statistics confirm that claim.

CheckRaise · 11-07-2007, 10:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MarchHare

I may be wrong, but I don't ever recall Moore claiming that school shootings only occurred in the US, only that they were far more common there than in any other country. I'm pretty sure the statistics confirm that claim.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...elated_attacks

There have been 140 school related attacks, from which 102 have taken place in the United States.
So no, these tragedies don't only happen in the US, just more often than anywhere else.
I don't think Moore has ever stated that these things happen only in US, but he has conveniently left out the tragedies that happen in other countries. Personally I don't think that majority of americans really care about things happening outside the states. And NO, by this I don't mean that ALL americans think like that.

TheDragon · 11-07-2007, 10:14 AM

Quote:

He said he believes in natural selection and hates humanity. He has also stated his admiration for Hitler and Stalin

Quote:

He was a fan of the Colombine school shootings.

Eerie. I actually read the Columbine kid's journals after they were released to the public by the Freedom of Information Act, and it's almost exactly the same thing as this. They hated humanity, idolized Hitler, and thought they were doing the world a favour.

A real damn tragedy, this.

JohnnyB · 11-07-2007, 10:23 AM

^^^

Quote:

He said he believes in natural selection

And yet he failed in attempting to kill himself...
The ironing is delicious.

CheckRaise · 11-07-2007, 10:27 AM

^^
Well, he did manage to cause damage to his brain and may yet die.
But true, pretty sad thing if one can't kill himself with a handgun, even though it was a small caliber gun.

foofighter15 · 11-07-2007, 10:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clever_Iggy

Terrible.

This puts a big dent into Michael Moore's belief that school shootings are a US product.

My first thought as well. But still, this is the first one I'm aware of over seas.

Phaneuf3 · 11-07-2007, 10:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheDragon

Eerie. I actually read the Columbine kid's journals after they were released to the public by the Freedom of Information Act, and it's almost exactly the same thing as this. They hated humanity, idolized Hitler, and thought they were doing the world a favour.

A real damn tragedy, this.

they actually released those?

it'd be an interesting read. i'm quite interested in those types of things - autobiographies and such. the rationale of some messed up people can be very thought provoking to read in their own words but i don't know if i could quite stomach those journals.

MarchHare · 11-07-2007, 10:47 AM

Quote:

My first thought as well. But still, this is the first one I'm aware of over seas.

In 1996 there was a highly-publicized school shooting in Scotland; Tony Blair's government reacted by instituting a nation-wide handgun ban in the UK. About a year ago there was a school shooting in Germany.

BavarianHorde · 11-07-2007, 11:16 AM

You don't hear about these incidents overseas because our news is dominated by American news.

We had about 5 minutes of coverage over the earthquake in Peru, Costa Rica has had many deaths due to flooding. I won't even start with Chavez. We hear about Mexico because it is so close to the States.

The only news you receive from overseas is from Iraq, and our national media is pretty good about reporting on Afghanistan. Pakistan is an important ally to the US, and what is happening there is making the news.

These kinds of things happen all the time. People are exploited, killed, raped, tortured, in places like the Middle East and Africa all the time, but unfortunately we never hear about them.

No matter what, tragedies like this are sad, and they happen far too often all over the world.

God bless the victims and their families, and the families of the dead.

llama64 · 11-07-2007, 11:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clever_Iggy

Terrible.

This puts a big dent into Michael Moore's belief that school shootings are a US product.

It's been awhile since I saw his movies but I do have a question about your statement.

Does Moore actually state that school shootings in this vein are only a US symptom?
Or is his argument more that the US system is at greater risk to such occurrences then other nations?

Resolute 14 · 11-07-2007, 11:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MarchHare

In 1996 there was a highly-publicized school shooting in Scotland; Tony Blair's government reacted by instituting a nation-wide handgun ban in the UK. About a year ago there was a school shooting in Germany.

Didn't a Japanese guy kill a bunch of elementary school kids a few years ago too?

GirlySports · 11-07-2007, 11:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snakeeye

Didn't a Japanese guy kill a bunch of elementary school kids a few years ago too?

Think so.

And a kidnapping/shooting in russia recently?

Phaneuf3 · 11-07-2007, 11:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by llama64

It's been awhile since I saw his movies but I do have a question about your statement.

Does Moore actually state that school shootings in this vein are only a US symptom?
Or is his argument more that the US system is at greater risk to such occurrences then other nations?

it was more about the scale. they put up a bunch of numbers about gun related homicides in a bunch of developed nations. the USA was head and shoulders above the ones he decided to post the figures for.

comrade · 11-07-2007, 12:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GirlySports

Think so.

And a kidnapping/shooting in russia recently?

If your referring to the Beslan incident that was armed and organized Chechan rebels and not really related in any way to this or Columbine, other than they all occurred in a school.

You may be referring to something else though.

FlameCity · 11-07-2007, 02:46 PM

From CNN:

Quote:

An 18-year-old believed to have shot dead eight people at a Finnish school has died from self-inflicted injuries, police said.

Clever_Iggy · 11-07-2007, 03:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by llama64

It's been awhile since I saw his movies but I do have a question about your statement.

Does Moore actually state that school shootings in this vein are only a US symptom?
Or is his argument more that the US system is at greater risk to such occurrences then other nations?

Moore never states that the US is the only country with school shootings, but he sure does imply it. Im not arguing that the US isnt more likely to have a school shooting (because it is), Im saying that Moore loves to hate on gun culture and guns being so easily accessible in the US and that that is the cause of the amount of school shootings.

However, I think if you have the intent, getting a gun is manageable. And disturbed kids are a universal thing.