Minor Hockey frustration

[moon]

Originally Posted by MelBridgeman

Depends, if its the rep or 'A' team there may be a different philosophy...

When they are 9 and 10 years old it shouldn't matter if it is the "A" team or rep team, the main focus should still be about having fun.

There is no reason that if there are 6 goalies and three teams, that one kid should play 40 games while three other kids get to only play 15.

If at the Atom level the organization, coaches and parents are so focused on winning that they are willing to cut the ice time of kids then those people need to get their priorities straightened and perhaps leave the game altogether.

[Dion]

Originally Posted by moon

When they are 9 and 10 years old it shouldn't matter if it is the "A" team or rep team, the main focus should still be about having fun.

There is no reason that if there are 6 goalies and three teams, that one kid should play 40 games while three other kids get to only play 15.

If at the Atom level the organization, coaches and parents are so focused on winning that they are willing to cut the ice time of kids then those people need to get their priorities straightened and perhaps leave the game altogether.

The competitiveness of the 'A' level is a reality wether you like it or not. Don't get me wrong, I agree with much of what you are saying. Still if a parent or kid wants to avoid the politics he can always play at the 'B' or 'C' level. My brother often made the 'A' teams but usually ended up going down to the 'B' level to get his fair share of ice time. That and he was into the game more so for the fun and recreation.

[flambers]

Originally Posted by Dion

The competitiveness of the 'A' level is a reality wether you like it or not. Don't get me wrong, I agree with much of what you are saying. Still if a parent or kid wants to avoid the politics he can always play at the 'B' or 'C' level. My brother often made the 'A' teams but usually ended up going down to the 'B' level to get his fair share of ice time. That and he was into the game more so for the fun and recreation.

I know a few family's that have done the same thing their child has made team 1 (in calgary) but have requested their child to play on division #2 due to politics.

I am still shocked goalies get pulled at the age of 9 or 10. Dang that is Tiny Mite in the old days....

[Sample00]

well, I have taken all your thoughts into consideration and I find myself at peace with the following decision:

I am going to back away and let the team and my son figure this out. In fact, I am going to go so far in saying that I am going to go back to the coach's and say, you know what, forget about what happened at the evaluations, we chose to disagree about my son and thats fine. its your team, handle it the way you see fit and make my son work for what he gets. it will only make him a better goalie. If i find that my son is being unduly ridiculed personally, then I can always have another talk with them, at this time, my son needs to figure this out too, and I need to learn to be a parent in this situation. If we feel that after this season, he continues to play in B hockey or Division 2 or whatever, thats a choice we can make then. but it will be up to him as to what kind of an experience he has at this point forward.
I may have been somewhat unjust in critizing the coaching staff but its a bit like a mother bear with her cub. I tend to be quite protective of my family and maybe I need for my kids to figure things out on their own.
I can always be the sounding wall if conflicts arise. and if they are too harsh then we can always approach it together with his coach.

[GrrlGoalie33]

Originally Posted by Sample00

I am going to go so far in saying that I am going to go back to the coach's and say, you know what, forget about what happened at the evaluations, we chose to disagree about my son and thats fine. its your team, handle it the way you see fit and make my son work for what he gets.

Based on your descriptions of how heated the conversations between you and the coaching staff have been in the past, I might not say anything to them at all...it could lead to more arguments despite your best intentions.

[Dion]

Originally Posted by Frankster

Based on your descriptions of how heated the conversations between you and the coaching staff have been in the past, I might not say anything to them at all...it could lead to more arguments despite your best intentions.

I agree with Frankster. Let go and move on.

[Sample00]

and thats a fair thought too. I guess my reason for doing it is that they understand that I wont be watching and evaluating their every movement. maybe so they can do their business without thinking that i am going to go off on them. does that make sense?

[Dion]

Originally Posted by Sample00

and thats a fair thought too. I guess my reason for doing it is that they understand that I wont be watching and evaluating their every movement. maybe so they can do their business without thinking that i am going to go off on them. does that make sense?

By not going to them would be an indication that you're leaving the coaching duties to them. A few games will go by and the coaches will comment that Sample hasn't been coming up to us complaining how we deal with his son.

[moon]

Originally Posted by Dion

The competitiveness of the 'A' level is a reality wether you like it or not. Don't get me wrong, I agree with much of what you are saying. Still if a parent or kid wants to avoid the politics he can always play at the 'B' or 'C' level. My brother often made the 'A' teams but usually ended up going down to the 'B' level to get his fair share of ice time. That and he was into the game more so for the fun and recreation.

I guess things have changed then from when I was growing up. I played A level during my minor hockey career and never saw kids getting less ice time so that we could win. I have seen kids picked to be on the team because their dads were involved but once the team was set everybody got to play equally.

Again if this is how competite that A level is being treated at that age group, the people who are treating it that way need to get out of the sport. They are not benefitting any of the kids, even the ones who get to play more, and are really hurting those that don't get the opportunity to play. Again if you need to see your 9 year old son win at the cost of another 9 year olds enjoyment then you are a loser.

I would agree with the sentiment that maybe Axel's kid should play on the B if there weren't already 2 goalies down there. There is no reason why three kids should have to split the games three ways while one kid gets to play all the games for his team.

[Ch40s]

I apologize if any points I bring up have already been discussed. I do not have time to read the whole thread but I really want to add my two cents.

I played 10 years in the Calgary minor hockey system. Some years there was great coaching, teammates, and parents, while other years were absolute piss.

My experience is the evaluation process is aweful. There are kids that you know will make division one simply because they're the sons of the "higher-ups", not because they deserve to be there. The whole process of evaluating is extremely subjective (random parents do it for the most part) and simply unfair. Sometimes you're evaluated very well, other times players end up where they shouldn't be, even two divisions lower.

I believe this relates to your story, as the son's dad was the coach and single handedly almost got your son onto the team below. That is absolute crap.

This is atom. This is community hockey. There should be even icetime for every single player. It doesn't even matter if it's midgit you're talking about. Everybody paid the same amount. It isn't competitive, AAA hockey.

I had an experience with my coach having ridiculous bias' for giving out icetime (I should say now the guy was an absolute idiot). He claimed those who showed up for practices would get powerplay and overtime playing time. I felt this was generally fair, especially for those skipping out from practices without any particular reason. Too bad he couldn't follow through... he ended up just playing the puck hogs (not even the best players, this reflected his idiocy). This bias of his was so blatant to everyone, but he avoided the parents and kept playing the puck hogs (which included his own kid).

In my case I, as a player, stepped up and called him on it. Luckily I had many players on my side (as only about a quarter of the team received extra ice time). He ended up playing us fair, thankfully. That was his last year of coaching.

In your situation with the coach, I'm not entirely sure what can be done, but that doesn't mean don't try. It seems the people running the show for your community team are a bunch of idiots. This coach should not be allowed to coach with that much bias. The kids are there to have fun, and should all have equal ice time. You need to wrangle up other parents who have your same view, if possible. This really shouldn't be that hard, as most parents are simply scared to come out about that, as they think it's the norm. Even if it is the norm - it really, really shouldn't be.

You really need to fight for fairness with this, because it will come up again if your son continues to play minor hockey, no matter what association he plays with.

[guzzy]

That is a truly unfortunate situation. I wouldn't take it any further than you already have because it only hurts your son. You need to explain to your son that is a bad year with a bad coach and these things happen in organized sport. There is so much politics involved with all parties in organized hockey. Pushing the league and the coach will only jeopardize your son in the future because the organization will remember your son as the one with the whiny dad. I am not saying you are whining, I sympathize with your situation but you will be perceived as "Johnny Fairplay" by the organization and coaches won't want to deal with your son because of you. You don't want this for your son. You have to realize that there will be bad years in hockey and the there will be good ones. Chalk this up to a bad one, sit back and move on. It is the best thing for your son but explain the situation to him very clearly so he doesn't lose faith in the game, just the coach. Each year your son plays the game becomes more and more competitive and less fun (to an extent). Every year ice time is shared less and coaches start double shifting better players etc. It is the nature of the beast.

Next year if you put into a similar situation put your kid on the B team. Less competitive, more fun and would probably be the better of the two goalies. This allows him to develop his own skills. If he suceeds there you can decide how far he wants to push himself into midget or bantam, whatever comes next. More icetime in a bit less competitive but more fun league is probably what your son needs right now.

If you wanted to, see if the B coach would consider a swap. Move your son into B now and move a goalie from b to a.

[Sample00]

thanks for all your input, CP.
you really dont know how much of a difference you folks made in my mind set.
thanks again very much.

[simmer2]

Originally Posted by Sample00

thanks for all your input, CP.
you really dont know how much of a difference you folks made in my mind set.
thanks again very much.

Good luck, hope the rest of the season is a good one for your son!

[Sample00]

Hello everybody,

I just wanted to thank everyone for all their comments and support.
And also to provide some followup.

I did end up filing a formal complaint to the league with regards to how the coach was handling my son's playing time. The league felt it was a he said/he said thing but advised that they will have an appropriate protocol in place for next season as to how a two goalie system should be handled. Alas, they felt that they couldn't do anything at that point in the season without disrupting the whole team.

On a positive note, we ended up in 1st place out of an 8 team league. My son was able to play in the first round of playoffs, winning against the number 8 seed team in the league. (its a two game total point series).The team won both games. My son played some of his best hockey of the season.

In the second round, we ended up playing the number 4 seeded team. The coaches son, started the series and we won that game. In the second game, (its a two game total point series) the coaches son also started that game and the score was 2-1 after the first period. In the second period, after coming back into the arena, I look and see my son standing between the pipes to start the second period. i was shocked! We didnt expect him to be playing. My son played very well and the final score in the game was 5-3 for us.

In the final round for the league championship, we played the number 2 seed. The final round was a best of three. The coaches son started the game and went on to win the game in a thrilling 6-5 overtime win. He played very well. In the second game, the coaches son started the game again and we ended up winning the game 8-1 and clinching the league championship.

so although the goalies didnt alternate, they got balanced out throughout the playoffs. Which for playoffs, I guess I am ok with.

I hope that the local minor hockey association sticks to their word and implements a pattern for goalies to play. Whether they alternate or split games, I dont care, but I think there should be a consistent pattern.

the season is now over. It ended on sunday and my son is already bored and wanting to play more. I guess thats all anyone can ask for. He has a passion for the game and I am glad that this season hasnt turned him off.

thanks again for all your input. It was greatly appreciated.

[mykalberta]

A houseleague system where players should play if they dont care about winning and only care about playing.

A for a town like Edson is the rep team which means winning is the priority.

Higher level hockey requires more fundraising and practices which means more commitment from both parents and players. When that type of commitment is required winning has to be the primary thought IMO

IMO Personally I think it was a good move by the A coach to set some ground rules before the season.

I feel for your son but I would have said FU to the A team and played as the #1 on the B team. More playing time and better chance to raise his standing. Then if your child is serious about improving his game then take him to Goalie schools in Panoka or Kelowna. Also look to an off ice routine to sharpen his skills and stretching.

[return to the red]

Originally Posted by Sample00

Hello everybody,

I just wanted to thank everyone for all their comments and support.
And also to provide some followup.

I did end up filing a formal complaint to the league with regards to how the coach was handling my son's playing time. The league felt it was a he said/he said thing but advised that they will have an appropriate protocol in place for next season as to how a two goalie system should be handled. Alas, they felt that they couldn't do anything at that point in the season without disrupting the whole team.

On a positive note, we ended up in 1st place out of an 8 team league. My son was able to play in the first round of playoffs, winning against the number 8 seed team in the league. (its a two game total point series).The team won both games. My son played some of his best hockey of the season.

In the second round, we ended up playing the number 4 seeded team. The coaches son, started the series and we won that game. In the second game, (its a two game total point series) the coaches son also started that game and the score was 2-1 after the first period. In the second period, after coming back into the arena, I look and see my son standing between the pipes to start the second period. i was shocked! We didnt expect him to be playing. My son played very well and the final score in the game was 5-3 for us.

In the final round for the league championship, we played the number 2 seed. The final round was a best of three. The coaches son started the game and went on to win the game in a thrilling 6-5 overtime win. He played very well. In the second game, the coaches son started the game again and we ended up winning the game 8-1 and clinching the league championship.

so although the goalies didnt alternate, they got balanced out throughout the playoffs. Which for playoffs, I guess I am ok with.

I hope that the local minor hockey association sticks to their word and implements a pattern for goalies to play. Whether they alternate or split games, I dont care, but I think there should be a consistent pattern.

the season is now over. It ended on sunday and my son is already bored and wanting to play more. I guess thats all anyone can ask for. He has a passion for the game and I am glad that this season hasnt turned him off.

thanks again for all your input. It was greatly appreciated.

positive ending to a story that should have never got that far to begin with. Like you said hopefully they implement something in the future.

It's stories like this that makes my wife cringe when I mention that if we have a little guy I want to put him into Hockey.

Congrats to your son and congrats to you for doing what you thought was best

[flambers]

Originally Posted by mykalberta

Higher level hockey requires more fundraising and practices which means more commitment from both parents and players. When that type of commitment is required winning has to be the primary thought IMO

.

Wow, you do realize Axel is talking about the Atom level? Which is for 9 and 10 year olds kids.

All teams in Atom (Calgary) no matter if they are in div 1 or a lower div they all do a large amount of fundraising.

Practise time is regulated by Minor Hockey Calgary. As all of the teams always want more ice time..

As for the comment "Winning has to be the primary thought" .....I am blown away from that comment and yes my kid is in Atom and no this is not the view of the Minor Hockey that I have ever seen.