Minor Hockey frustration

[Sample00]

My apologies for the long story, please read if you can help though.

Am looking for a little advice from the CalgaryPuck faithful.
Some background,
My son is a goaltender in the local minor hockey system.
Each year all players go through an evaluation process to see which team they will be playing on. The process is an intense process over a two week period, in which they are on the ice for 5 sessions and they are then evaluated through each session by local hockey people according to their abilities and game scenarios.

This year for the Atom division (9,10 year olds) there was 45 skaters and 6 goaltenders. There are 3 divisions in Atom hockey, A, B and C. “A” being the highest. As it turns out my son ranked number 2 in the evaluation process, so he was slotted to play on the “A” team this year. During the team selection process, a process that happens at the end of the session amongst a group of 6 people, The President, Vice President, Evaluation Chairman, Atom Director and Head Coach and the on ice session co-ordinator (Me) sit in a “War room” and go through the evaluations and select the team. There is typically some movement on players due to having enough forwards and defence for each team. At this time, the “A” team Head coach, who’s son also happens to be a goaltender, ranked #1, advises us, that he would rather not have my son on his team because he feels that my son isn’t up to the same caliber as his son and he would just prefer to go with one goalie.

As it turns out, his son did rank higher and I will say that at this point his son is the better goalie. He also advises that teams wont play for a goaltender when the goaltender is the weaker of two and that will cause disention in the room. He advises that he doesn’t want to deal with that kind of situation. I say, WTF! And advise that my son, in his second year and final year of Atom works his ass of to make the “A” squad and then is told that he isn’t wanted??? I advise him that its his job to get the team going and playing no matter who is in net. This is afterall 9 and 10 year olds. I blow a gasket and leave the room and tell the committee that when they decide what they are going to do with my son, they should call me. I leave the arena and stew outside for while.

While I sit outside and stew, the Head Coach comes outside and advises me that after discussion with the other committee members, they felt that he should take two goalies in case of injuries, bad games, etc. I, still visibly pissed, tell him that it was totally out of line for him to make the kind of suggestion he did and that my son who made the team deserves to be there and that given its his final year of Atom, he deserves to shine on the A team. I, being a goaltender and instructor advise the coach, that I will work with my son and his son to make them both better goaltenders. I get told that I am not wanted on the coaching staff. I say, whatever, and that this is about my son and not me and leave it at that.

Move forward two months, my son has been pulled from a couple of games due to shoddy play, which is fair, but I see him sitting more and more lately. My son has had numerous good games as well, in fact facing over 40 shots in one game, keeping his team in the game and then getting pulled with 8 minutes left in the game. Which I may add the lost. My son advises me that he wants to play and due his part to be a better goaltender. I should also add, that at this point, he has had a “goalie coach’ come out for three sessions and my son advises me that he isn’t really learning anything from this guy. Yesterday, however was the pinnacle of my frustration with this coach and the team.

We hosted a tournament here over the weekend and my son decided to try out some new pads. During the game, he was playing well, but I noticed that the pads were a bit to big on him and told the coach during the break, that maybe it would be best that he swap the goaltenders out and for the next game, I will get my son his old pads and he could wear the old ones for the next game. My son was playing quite well to this point in the game. He agreed that the pads were too big and thanked me for noticing it too. Fast forward to the next, and final game. His son starts and is having a decent game, no question. Our team is up 3-1 at the half way mark. The other team switches goaltenders, it is afterall a tournament, and I await for my son to make his switch too. Nothing. So, we wait and are thinking that at the start of the third period, he will probably go in. Nothing. The other team ties the game up and it ends up going into overtime, then shoot out, with the other team winning. My son sitting on the bench the whole time, looking quite disenchanted by the whole process. He tells me afterwards, how much he wanted to play and that “dad, I really didn’t have any fun today”.

I wait for the coach to come out and advise him that “we” need to have a little chat.
We go into the local minor hockey room and he bring his coaching staff with him. I ask him what excuse did he give my son today for not playing him. He says I didn’t give him any excuse, but told him that he would play the next game full, which I might add he has told my son a number of times over the last couple of months and has yet to bear fruition.

To make a long story somewhat shorter, I get told that this is an A team and I best get used to the fact, that these things are going to happen. My son will play against the weaker teams in the Division until his confidence and the teams confidence comes up so that they will start playing for him. I call, BS! I also get told that my son needs to work harder in practice to get better, a fact that I will agree with. He needs to work more in practice and I give them full authority to kick his ass and make him work harder. But then to put the exclamation mark on the conversation, the coaching staff advises me that my son needs to get a better grip on his nutrition and that maybe if he was in better shape he would play better. This after the coaches son walks out with four pieces of pizza after the game and my son walks out with one and an orange. Now granted my son is no small child, but he certainly isn’t overweight. Could he be in better shape, absolutely, but these are 9 and 10 year olds we talking about and we are talking about a local minor hockey system that has less than 200 kids in it.

What do I do? And am I really out to lunch or is it time to put a legitimate beef in place.
Is this how minor hockey should be, even if it is A hockey?
Please CP faithful lend me your ears, and I certainly don’t need sunshine blown my way, if I am out to lunch tell me I am. I am all ears here.
Signed
Frustrated!

[ken0042]

6 goalies and 3 teams- sounds like 2 per team.

Or is he expecting to have the B team work through 3 goalies?

This is one of those times I remember why I hated sports at that age- too much emphasis on winning and not enough on having fun.

[droopydrew19]

Wow Axel. Someone is sure an A$$hole up there. THESE ARE 9 and 10 year olds. Playing elite "A" teams shouldn't even come into play until they are nearing Bantam age in my opinion.

It is coaches like this that Hockey Canada and Hockey Alberta are not happy about. Enrolment in minor hockey is down as kids get older because they are not given the opportunity to play and then drop out.

I do not know how you will play it but I would lodge a complaint with Hockey Alberta. Nobody should be treated as an elite player at age 10. The nutrition comment is completely crap. This guy should be told he is not the next Scottie Bowman and his kid is not the next Patrick Roy.

At 10 years old it is still a game to enjoy and shouldn't be about winning tournaments.

[urban1]

Can you edit your post and hit return a few times to put some blank lines in between paragraphs to make it easier to read?

As for the situation, I dont think theres any easy answer. As long as the other goalies father is coaching, youre going to have this issue. Are there any other parent complaints about this coach and how he handles the rest of the team?

If youre kid was the better goalie this might make the situation different because then the whole team is suffering if the coach is playing his son who is the inferior goalie. Playing on the B team might get your kid more ice time and help him improve and then try for A again next year.

[The Unabomber]

You are not out to lunch, the minor hockey system is brutal. Fathers of children playing on the team should not be coaching that team, if they want to coach then it should be a team that their kid doesn't play on.

Kids play hockey because it's fun, too often that aspect is forgotten and the parents and coaches want to win no matter what. You, as a father, pay the same fees as the coach does for his kid and the other parents for their kids, they should be getting the same amount of ice as the next kid regardless of skill level. That changes when it gets more competitive, maybe when they are 13 or 14, but it's awful when winning becomes more important than having fun.

I wish i had a solution for you, maybe write a letter to minor hockey or the community and let them know how you feel, and more importantly, how your son feels.

[Cain]

It was also my experience going through the system that there is a lot of politics and pressure put on the kids early on. I learned to hate it, and did not enjoy it when I made the top teams before bantam.

The upside is that after peewee and beginning in bantam, all the hardcore "play the best players because they have a shot at the nhl" type parents and players will go to AA and AAA. I decided to stay in A and play on the top community team year after year, and it was the best decision I ever made. It was still competitive enough to be fun, but it was not merciless - and that would not have been tolerated if it started to become like that either.

Not much you can do at lower levels I think though besides rage loudly or quietly. Some parents are absolute asses who think their kid will set the world on fire from the beginning...I guess I don't have much advice, I just wanted to commiserate with you and your child

[fredr123]

Wow. I never went through minor hockey around here but I've heard from similar stories from a few family members that either coach or have kids in the system. Didn't realize there was such an emphasis on doing awesome at the Atom level.

Sounds like the coach thinks he's in a different league or something. These are ten year olds for crissakes. It's like he's trying to run a Manny Fernandez/Dwayne Roloson tandem or something but favors one over the other.

I'm trying to think of the best possible way to say this without sounding like an uninformed ass, but is your contact with the coach productive? Sure, he sounds like a ###### and doesn't seem to grasp the idea of letting kids have fun and learning the game. At the same time, however, you seem to have gotten on his case a few times and I wonder if that's making the situation any better. Perhaps a change in tactics is warranted.

[Dion]

The situation you described is a comman reason why young kids quit the game altogether. It's the stinkin politics and the win at all costs attitude. Coaches are hell bent on winning and the kids just want to play and have fun. The coach IMO seems to be on a major power trip.

[habernac]

and this is why I am dreading what happens when my kid is of age to play hockey and other sports. There's always someone with an agenda. Kids get the shaft because some pinhead coach thinks his kid is the next big thing. Tough to say a kid's Dad can't coach his team, but what else do you do there?

My Dad coached me when I was young. He had a great time, we got to spend time together, the other kids loved him because he was fair. But he soon tired of the politics and stopped coaching. My interest waned after that as well, which is a shame.

I don't have any great answers for ya, Axmann. Good on ya for being invovled, lots of Dads would just avoid the confrontation.

[Sample00]

Originally Posted by ken0042

6 goalies and 3 teams- sounds like 2 per team.

Or is he expecting to have the B team work through 3 goalies?

This is one of those times I remember why I hated sports at that age- too much emphasis on winning and not enough on having fun.

ya, he fully expected the "B" squad to run with 3 goalies. there was also the option given to move my son to the PeeWee C squad, which is one year above him. they only have one goalie at this point.

[Juventus3]

It takes some kind of person to not have any shame putting your own kid ahead of others on a team.

I'd get the president of the association into the conversation. Have the coach justify uneven playing time on a team of 10 year olds. Have him argue your point that both goalies deserve equal playing time in any given situation, regardless of opponent.

Everyone's got a story about minor hockey growing up. Just keep in mind that if you're able to spend time and energy on this type of a situation, life isn't so bad!

Good luck!

[Rhettzky]

Originally Posted by Sample00

ya, he fully expected the "B" squad to run with 3 goalies. there was also the option given to move my son to the PeeWee C squad, which is one year above him. they only have one goalie at this point.

But then after this year you'd have the same problem when that coach's kid moved up to pee wee next year wouldn't you?

[llama64]

Great narrative describing exactly why parents shouldn't be the coach on their own kids teams.

Sounds horrible for your son. Hope you guys figure out a better situation next season!

[foofighter15]

I was a goalie back in the day and got screwed by the system myself. To me it sounds like the goalies aren't rotating games, and if you are in CMHA like I'm assuming you are I'm pretty sure it's league rules that full time goalies have to play equal games when there is multiple on the team

[droopydrew19]

Just some other thoughts here. Are coaches not supposed to be certified once they get to a certain level?

I am pretty sure that they are not teaching these coaches to bag skate and control atom aged players diets?

It is a crappy spot you are in Axel because if you complain to vehemently you could be seen as pushing your son just as much as the coach. But you do need to stand up for your son.

[Burninator]

I'm not surprised to see the politics of minor hockey haven't gone away. Especially at the top level of divisions. I remember when I was playing it would get pretty heated between the parents and the coaches and even between the other parents. To be honest, I don't see a solution that will help you and your kid out. The top team of any division is going to be cut throat and competitive. Splitting the ice team evenly between goalies may just not happen.

I had a problem coach one year. I was a decent player on the team, 2nd or 3rd in points. But I always got the shaft on ice time. If the game was tied or we were losing by a goal I never got to touch the ice in the last 5 minutes. Sometimes someone would sub for me on my line and I swear I had to serve almost all the penalties for bench minors, goaltender penalties and other penalties that required someone to go into the box despite me not getting the penalty in the first place. Eventually my mother got so mad after a practise where I got hurt because he was having me practise getting hit by the biggest guy on the team (the guy that hit a kid on another team and broke a gate open) over and over till I couldn't skate on my ankle. She lost it on him. After that things improved. I never understood what he had against me. I was the fastest player on the team, got lots of points and back checked. Probably my biggest down side was that I wasn't very physical, because I'm not a big guy. Either way, it was really frustrating and I was glad to be done with that year and him. Terrible coach.

[Rathji]

I wonder where the stereotype that hockey parents go nuts when the coach doesn't do what they want comes from?

You have a good point, and valid concerns, but if you are this mad when dealing with your kids coach, you probably come across as captain of the insano parents club.

Coach your kid and help him improve. If he doesn't get a fair shot (in the long term) then you need to deal with it. Just because he doesn't get played in one game (where you think he should), it doesn't mean he is getting screwed. Of course it doesn't mean he isn't getting screwed either. Talk to someone who is in charge of this kinda thing and get it dealt with in a calm manner.

[Sample00]

Originally Posted by fredr123

.

I'm trying to think of the best possible way to say this without sounding like an uninformed ass, but is your contact with the coach productive? Sure, he sounds like a ###### and doesn't seem to grasp the idea of letting kids have fun and learning the game. At the same time, however, you seem to have gotten on his case a few times and I wonder if that's making the situation any better. Perhaps a change in tactics is warranted.

well, we definately got off on the wrong foot, but when it comes to my family and in this case, my son, I get very protected. I have gotten on his case, twice now, I dont go out of my way to be friendly towards him. In fact, I am trying to keep good distance to avoid any confrontations. Nevertheless, as you can tell I am frustrated but open to suggestions in a change of tactics./

[flambers]

Originally Posted by The Unabomber

You are not out to lunch, the minor hockey system is brutal. Fathers of children playing on the team should not be coaching that team, if they want to coach then it should be a team that their kid doesn't play on.

Sorry but if the Fathers did not Coach who would? My kids also plays hockey in Calgary at the Atom level and if it was not for the Fathers there would be no coaches in Minor hockey.

As for Politics in minor hockey, no question there is a tonne of it but I don't think there is any easy fix.

[droopydrew19]

Originally Posted by Rathji

Coach your kid and help him improve. If he doesn't get a fair shot (in the long term) then you need to deal with it.

I am sure Axel can "deal with it" but why does a 10 year old have to. As a parent you have to stand up for your kid.

I have never seen a 10 year old kid say "coach why are you not playing me, this isn't fair"

It is funny that they have all these fairplay initiatives and townhall meetings on how to improve minor hockey and maintain strong enrollments and yet people in the position of power still trumpet their personal agendas.