Liberal party abstains from voting on throne speech

[Slava]

Originally Posted by Cowboy89

You're just clueing into this now? The only 'principle' of the party is and always was getting elected.

Now you're just being partisan! The Conservatives would do the exact same thing if there were in this position. That is how politics works. It's the same reason that the Conservatives are trying to bait them into voting them down!

[HOZ]

Originally Posted by Slava

So if they were to trigger a vote today would you vote for them? Would you give them a chance even?

If you can't honestly consider them as an option why would any rational person subject themselves to an election?

I can't disagree with you. BUT...that shows how horrible they are. What do they offer?

[Thunderball]

Originally Posted by Slava

Now you're just being partisan! The Conservatives would do the exact same thing if there were in this position. That is how politics works. It's the same reason that the Conservatives are trying to bait them into voting them down!

He is and he isn't. If you think the Liberals don't gear their policy on chasing the median voter, you're out of your mind. Prove to me that the Conservatives have swung as much to the left and right as the Liberals and I'll take it back. I am aware the Liberal's official stance is centre to centre left, but a lot of their policies have swung well beyond that position one way or the other. Best example is Chretien attacking Manning's centre-right economic strategy (to get votes), and turning around and implementing it when he realized it was popular to (to get votes). That's notwithstanding the fact that the Liberal economic policy was ridiculously vague at the time. Is this because its good policy, or because its the perception of the median voter (vote chasing)?

While the Conservatives water things down and talk out of the sides of their mouths like any party seeking multiple terms, they tend to stick quite close to their centre-right stance.

[MarchHare]

Originally Posted by Cowboy89

You're just clueing into this now? The only 'principle' of the party is and always was getting elected.

Please.

Should we start making a list of all the "principles" members of the Reform/Alliance party abandoned when they became the CPC and had to shift closer to the center for the sole purpose of defeating the Liberals and getting elected?

This is just political maneuvering. Every party does it.

[Slava]

I can hardly believe that I'm reading that the Liberals shouldn't move their policies to be more acceptable to more voters, as opposed to a purely principled stand.

You do realise that the whole point of politics is to get elected right?

[HOZ]

Originally Posted by Slava

I can hardly believe that I'm reading that the Liberals shouldn't move their policies to be more acceptable to more voters, as opposed to a purely principled stand.

You do realise that the whole point of politics is to get elected right?

Then you do realise why I haven't voted for them for 15 years then?

[MarchHare]

I can hardly believe that I'm reading that the Liberals shouldn't move their policies to be more acceptable to more voters, as opposed to a purely principled stand.

It's the catch-22 of politics:

If you change your policies to better suit what constituents want, your opponents will say that your party lacks principles.

If you stick to your guns despite widespread opposition, your opponents will say that your party doesn't listen to the will of the electorate.

[Thunderball]

Originally Posted by Slava

I can hardly believe that I'm reading that the Liberals shouldn't move their policies to be more acceptable to more voters, as opposed to a purely principled stand.

You do realise that the whole point of politics is to get elected right?

Ideally, its a combination of both. No one can be all things to all people. Those who try and fail end up looking like the Liberals, confused and lacking any tangible core beliefs. People elect parties based on their political affiliation and appraisal of who can handle the big issues best.

If people elect a centrist party, they expect centrist policy, not half leftist and half rightwing. That doesn't mean there isn't room to massage policy but it means that people have a general expectation.

[mykalberta]

I wouldnt be so quick to call this a Cons victory. Remember, all it takes is for one bo-hunk jackoff MP from Lethbridge to mention the Bible, God, abortion blah blah blah and all the work Harper has done would be for not.

The longer it takes till the next election, the longer certain now-censored MP's have to open their un-federal mouths.

[Ford Prefect]

Originally Posted by mykalberta

I wouldnt be so quick to call this a Cons victory. Remember, all it takes is for one bo-hunk jackoff MP from Lethbridge to mention the Bible, God, abortion blah blah blah and all the work Harper has done would be for not.

The longer it takes till the next election, the longer certain now-censored MP's have to open their un-federal mouths.

If the MP is a bo-hunk, wouldn't he be more likely to be from Edmonton than Lethbridge?

[llama64]

Originally Posted by HOZ

Then you do realise why I haven't voted for them for 15 years then?

Are you just not going to vote for any politician then? Because like it or not, all politicians and the parties they belong to are seeking power. They don't hold true to any ideology that will compromise their quest.

And yes, this holds true for the Conservatives.

[llama64]

Watching the Liberals go down in flames is pretty interesting. The Liberal Party is about as Canadian as you can get when it comes to Parliament. Will they recover in the future? Or will they disband and unite under a new name like the PC's did?

The Conservatives as a governing party are completely untested and their support in the east is tentative at best. The next few years should be very interesting to watch unfold.

[JohnnyFlame]

Originally Posted by llama64

Are you just not going to vote for any politician then? Because like it or not, all politicians and the parties they belong to are seeking power. They don't hold true to any ideology that will compromise their quest.

And yes, this holds true for the Conservatives.

Exactly why voting is a complete waste of time.

Timeline

Party/ party members with an actual set of values/platform

Whiners complain about their stand

they change to our policy is whatever the dufii say they will vote for (though this will change with the winds of popularity)

reason to vote --- nonexistant

It's a game for rich lawyers and the like -- Interesting to watch as a form of entertainment --- other than that a complete waste of time.

[Slava]

Originally Posted by mykalberta

I wouldnt be so quick to call this a Cons victory. Remember, all it takes is for one bo-hunk jackoff MP from Lethbridge to mention the Bible, God, abortion blah blah blah and all the work Harper has done would be for not.

The longer it takes till the next election, the longer certain now-censored MP's have to open their un-federal mouths.

I'm glad that you said it this time. When I said something similar I got trounced by everyone in the board in mere moments!

[mykalberta]

Originally Posted by Ford Prefect

If the MP is a bo-hunk, wouldn't he be more likely to be from Edmonton than Lethbridge?

I may have mis spoke about Lethbridge, I just always have this view of a fat MP who was a rancher who wouldnt shut up last election, he normally has a massive belt buckle and back cowboy hat on. He had some pretty infamous comments that were printed in the Globe and Star about a week before the last election.

I thought his name was Mel something and he was from Lethbridge but I was obviously mistaken.

[mykalberta]

Originally Posted by Slava

I'm glad that you said it this time. When I said something similar I got trounced by everyone in the board in mere moments!

I dont know why, its 100% true and the only reason Harper hasnt nose dived yet. Rural Alberta opinions dont play well with the National media.

[Slava]

Originally Posted by mykalberta

I dont know why, its 100% true and the only reason Harper hasnt nose dived yet. Rural Alberta opinions dont play well with the National media.

I know...but the problem is that when a "known" liberal (at least on these boards) makes that kind of comment it comes across as a shot. It is the truth though...

[Lurch]

Originally Posted by Thunderball

He is and he isn't. If you think the Liberals don't gear their policy on chasing the median voter, you're out of your mind. Prove to me that the Conservatives have swung as much to the left and right as the Liberals and I'll take it back. I am aware the Liberal's official stance is centre to centre left, but a lot of their policies have swung well beyond that position one way or the other. Best example is Chretien attacking Manning's centre-right economic strategy (to get votes), and turning around and implementing it when he realized it was popular to (to get votes). That's notwithstanding the fact that the Liberal economic policy was ridiculously vague at the time. Is this because its good policy, or because its the perception of the median voter (vote chasing)?

While the Conservatives water things down and talk out of the sides of their mouths like any party seeking multiple terms, they tend to stick quite close to their centre-right stance.

How is this different to how Harper is pandering to Quebec to get votes?

I think I've come to the conclusion over the past year or two that I really don't care who is in power, as long as a changeover occurs every 2 or 3 terms (i.e. I hope the Conservatives win the next election, and the Liberals the one after that). That said, Alberta is in a sad state of affairs and desperately needs a change, so maybe Farmer Ed really is the best premier for the province in that I doubt anyone else could do a better job of helping out opposition parties.

[llama64]

Originally Posted by Lurch

That said, Alberta is in a sad state of affairs and desperately needs a change, so maybe Farmer Ed really is the best premier for the province in that I doubt anyone else could do a better job of helping out opposition parties.

If Premier Stelmach can live up to even half of his public address, he's convinced me that the Conservatives are worth every vote. This coming from someone who voted Liberal in the last provincial election.

It was strange. I watched the full address, got a little miffed that he skated over the royalty commission but then got excited about the rest of his message. I went from thinking Stelmach was a waffling leader with no direction to seeing a man that could lead Alberta to where we should be.

[Slava]

Originally Posted by llama64

If Premier Stelmach can live up to even half of his public address, he's convinced me that the Conservatives are worth every vote. This coming from someone who voted Liberal in the last provincial election.

It was strange. I watched the full address, got a little miffed that he skated over the royalty commission but then got excited about the rest of his message. I went from thinking Stelmach was a waffling leader with no direction to seeing a man that could lead Alberta to where is should be.

I will wait to see him in a live, unscripted event before I agree with this. Anyone can look good when you can do numerous takes and have a tried and true script!