Another Random Swarming in Calgary

[Rhettzky]

Originally Posted by MolsonInBothHands

I have also been knocked unconscious, and know many others who have been as well. Not one of us has been able to recollect with much clarity the events leading up to or after being knocked senseless. Call me naturally suspicious. Again, I am not condoning the violence of the swarmers, or belittling the suffering this kid is enduring, I am just saying there are pieces missing in this story.

I agree that something didn't match up with the kids story, which doesn't take away from the fact that it's sick they beat him. He said something about how they even continued to beat him after he was unconscious. Now maybe one of his 'friends' stayed close enough to see but that seems strange.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by fotze

Exactly. The other thing that is the EXACT SAME as it always has been is the reactions of those to the incident. The world is going to hell, teenagers are more violent, parents are too lenient. Just because the media has invented a new more creative and violent name for it doesn't make it an outbreak.

Lets see if we can come up with a violent term for what MelBridgeman went through running from those kids:

Mel was Catarwalled.
Mel was Typhooned by chasing teens hellbent on Pillagary.
The teens Pirahnaed Mel.

Swarmed? Give me a break.

That was my favorite.

On the flipside though, if these teens ever go to jail, they will likely be the receiving end of a swarming from sexually deprived adults.

Just when they thought it was good, clean, wholesome fun......

[zukes]

Yep, I remember this happening when I lived in Calgary as well. Back in the early 90's kids rarely used anything more than metal belts though. Every now and then someone would have a knife.

I had a machete pulled on me and I ran, the dude swung it and just caught me on the ass, so I was just scratched.

I had a buddy who was sick of all this and decided he was getting a gun.

My mom decided it was time to move back to her home town shortly after all of this. She didn't know about a lot of it, but my sister was a screw up and I wasn't exactly making the best choices either.

I was 16 and devestated. Looking back, probably the turning point of my life and best thing that ever happened.

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally Posted by Thunderball

I'd say they're more or less in the 45-65 range. I consider "hippies" to be a broad group of heavy left leaners in the 1960s and 70s, not just your stereotypical "groovy free love and drug crowd". Perhaps there's a better term. Probably about the right age group to have kids in between 13 and 25, and also the right demographic to be active voters now, with an MO on blaming society for the crimes of individuals, having a very strong sense of rehabilitation, not punishment, appalled at the ideas of parental responsibility for serious child activity, and having flimsy justice systems to enforce that.

That sounds suspiciously like a longing for the good old days. Problem with the good old days is that they weren't quite so good, and they weren't any better than these days. Probably worse.

I don't think the people you describe above actually exist in reality.

[Flashpoint]

Originally Posted by fotze

Lets see if we can come up with a violent term for what MelBridgeman went through running from those kids:

Mel was Catarwalled.
Mel was Typhooned by chasing teens hellbent on Pillagary.
The teens Pirahnaed Mel.

Swarmed? Give me a break.

Would now be an inappropriate time to suggest "Oilered"?

i.e. Mel was almost Oilered by a gang of teens intent on Phaneufing his ass.

[chris lindberg]

If these kids ever get caught they should be dropped off in Northern Manitoba/Ontario/Quebec or the N.W.T. to live on their own for a year to give them time to think about what they have done, leave each one of them in an isolated environment with nothing but some wooden matches, fishing line and an axe, some Native communities do this with extreme offenders, they go before a circle of elders and they are banished for a year are more from the community and are then brought back to see what they have to say for themselves, and if they don't seem ready to return they are sent back again for another season in the bush.

[4X4]

Originally Posted by chris lindberg

If these kids ever get caught they should be dropped off in Northern Manitoba/Ontario/Quebec or the N.W.T. to live on their own for a year to give them time to think about what they have done, leave each one of them in an isolated environment with nothing but some wooden matches, fishing line and an axe, some Native communities do this with extreme offenders, they go before a circle of elders and they are banished for a year are more from the community and are then brought back to see what they have to say for themselves, and if they don't seem ready to return they are sent back again for another season in the bush.

What's stopping them from walking to town or joining the next tribe over?

[Phaneuf3]

Originally Posted by chris lindberg

If these kids ever get caught they should be dropped off in Northern Manitoba/Ontario/Quebec or the N.W.T. to live on their own for a year to give them time to think about what they have done, leave each one of them in an isolated environment with nothing but some wooden matches, fishing line and an axe, some Native communities do this with extreme offenders, they go before a circle of elders and they are banished for a year are more from the community and are then brought back to see what they have to say for themselves, and if they don't seem ready to return they are sent back again for another season in the bush.

this is much better and probably more effective than prison. cheaper too. are you running in the next election? you've got my vote.

[chris lindberg]

Thanks, I too don't agree with the prison system, these guys just get worse in the that kind of enviroment it seems.

[Buff]

There was a random swarming in Lethbridge about 8-10 months ago. A friend's son, who I think is about 22 years old. Was walking home from a pub on the west side and he got jumped. I don't remember if they knew how many people jumped him but it was something like 2-4 people. I think his friend who was walking in the opposite direction came to his aid, and helped him get home. He was rushed to the hospital and his face was so swollen that they couldn't tell if anything was wrong with him. After further tests he was rushed to a Calgary hospital as one half of his face was shattered. I got sick when I heard about it. It was so random and so senseless... It bothers me that stuff like this happens... I.. it is just sickening.

[chris lindberg]

Originally Posted by 4X4

What's stopping them from walking to town or joining the next tribe over?

Maybe put them on an island, or have someone checking up on them from time to time?

[zukes]

I'm all for an eye for an eye. Maybe these kids need to be "swarmed".

[Thunderball]

Originally Posted by RougeUnderoos

That sounds suspiciously like a longing for the good old days. Problem with the good old days is that they weren't quite so good, and they weren't any better than these days. Probably worse.

I don't think the people you describe above actually exist in reality.

Really? If those people don't exist, then why does society accept all of that. Politicians are a reflection of the society in which we live. Most of us around here seem to want a tougher justice system and desire a greater and more visible response to punks. If we were a majority and those people didn't exist, surely we wouldn't have a system like we have...(and we may very well be lamenting different problems)

If no one thought like that, why would we have a flaccid justice system based on rehabilitation over punishment, relatively lavish prisons, faint hope clauses, jokes like the Young Offenders Act, and a general desire to discover the "root cause" of crime without actually getting to the root of anything?

I'd have a hard time hankering for the good old days seeing as I'm maybe half your age. I'm not asking for that at all, in fact, I'm blaming the previous generation(s) (and their "good old days") for why so many of my contemporaries are total morons and animals. What's being asked here is an introduction of forced accountability. Maybe the "good old days" didn't have it, but one reason this crap has exascerbated over the years is most definitely the decline of the family unit combined with self centred / apathetic parents.

[lifer]

Originally Posted by zukes

I'm all for an eye for an eye. Maybe these kids need to be "swarmed".

We can always hope that their next victim turns out to be a relative of Chuck Norris. Lights out little punks. Seriously, I hope these guys pick the wrong dude one day. It wouldn't bother me if they got killed.

[4X4]

Originally Posted by lifer

We can always hope that their next victim turns out to be a relative of Chuck Norris. Lights out little punks. Seriously, I hope these guys pick the wrong dude one day. It wouldn't bother me if they got killed.

Me too. Because we all know that when the Boogeyman goes to bed, he checks his closet for Chuck Norris.

[llama64]

Originally Posted by Thunderball

I'd say they're more or less in the 45-65 range. I consider "hippies" to be a broad group of heavy left leaners in the 1960s and 70s, not just your stereotypical "groovy free love and drug crowd". Perhaps there's a better term. Probably about the right age group to have kids in between 13 and 25, and also the right demographic to be active voters now, with an MO on blaming society for the crimes of individuals, having a very strong sense of rehabilitation, not punishment, appalled at the ideas of parental responsibility for serious child activity, and having flimsy justice systems to enforce that.

This has nothing to do with hippies, left leaning people or any other contrived political conception. But nice try.

This has everything to do with teenagers being allowed too much freedom and association. Teenagers, on average, are like speeding cars without drivers. Their bodies have undergone tremendous physical changes while their brains have not caught up yet. A person hasn't matured until they've hit 20-25 or so.

Society would be better off if we removed any conception of freedom from the teenage demographic and put them into internment camps until they are capable of living with other people. Alternative, integrate social service with the education system. That would rid ourselves of the concept of entitlement in a hurry.

[Thunderball]

Originally Posted by llama64

This has nothing to do with hippies, left leaning people or any other contrived political conception. But nice try.

This has everything to do with teenagers being allowed too much freedom and association. Teenagers, on average, are like speeding cars without drivers. Their bodies have undergone tremendous physical changes while their brains have not caught up yet. A person hasn't matured until they've hit 20-25 or so.

Society would be better off if we removed any conception of freedom from the teenage demographic and put them into internment camps until they are capable of living with other people. Alternative, integrate social service with the education system. That would rid ourselves of the concept of entitlement in a hurry.

And who allows this??? Who teaches these rangy teens entitlement, lack of responsibility, lack of accountability and thoughtlessness through action or inaction starting from their infancy.... and who tolerates it?

Lets lock every teenager away in gulags cause some morons don't discipline their kids and give them too much freedom too soon? How bout some parenting... maybe if 16 year old Little Jimmy was enrolled in sports/arts/etc., had to work a part time job for his spending money, had to be home by X o'clock every night, had respectable educational expectations and got his ass kicked and the keys to the car taken away and his xbox shoved up his ass if he didn't live up to those expectations (and conversely rewarded for not being a total nimrod)... maybe he wouldn't turn into a sociopathic degenerate. Its a nature v. nurture situation, and its the nurture that's the problem. How can anyone expect a teenage child to be respectable, accountable and thoughtful when no one ever teaches them to be so, and takes them to task when they aren't? Humans aren't programmed to be like that, it has to be taught.

Your analogy is not bad, but missing a key factor. Lets say teenagers are like speeding cars without drivers... parents are supposed to (legally) be the owners of those cars. If so many kids are smashing into problems, who's to blame? If I run a red light in a car under someone else's name, who gets the ticket? The owner. Its the owner's responsibility to make sure they, or whoever is running their property is not a total moron. They might try to make me pay them, but the ticket will be in their name, not mine. Law says they are accountable. Why is parenting different?

What's happening here is too many parents are ignoring their kid cause he/she's "a lost cause", or "my ex-wife's problem," or "he's (insert age under 18), not my problem, I have a life to live too," or "just a bad seed." They are these things because their actions greatly contributed to them being this way. I've seen it first hand more than I'd care to admit. I don't think its a coincidence that nearly every single person I know that have grown up right and found success in their personal and professional lives had good parents (married or divorced) that made raising their child right a priority (or at very least honestly did the best they could out of what they knew).

You blame the idiot, I blame the idiot that made the idiot.

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally Posted by Thunderball

R

If no one thought like that, why would we have a flaccid justice system based on rehabilitation over punishment, relatively lavish prisons, faint hope clauses, jokes like the Young Offenders Act, and a general desire to discover the "root cause" of crime without actually getting to the root of anything?

This argument always boggles the mind. We live in arguably the safest place in the entire world and still we have people saying that we are going about it (keeping ourselves safe) all wrong.

More prisons, death penalties, send children to the slammer and don't bother trying to figure out why someone commits a crime, just punish them for it...

Why would we take a fundamentally different (and really old-school) approach to the justice system. Do you think we'd actually be better off?

[llama64]

Originally Posted by Thunderball

You blame the idiot, I blame the idiot that made the idiot.

Well to be clear, I don't blame the "idiot", I blame the nature of the "idiot". I'm suggesting a brutal societal approach to the problem presented by violent teenagers. It removes the parents from the equation and attempts to create better citizens.

I'm also half tongue in cheek about it. But just half...

"GET THE FRAK OFF MY LAWN YOU ROTTEN KIDS!"

[Thunderball]

Originally Posted by RougeUnderoos

This argument always boggles the mind. We live in arguably the safest place in the entire world and still we have people saying that we are going about it (keeping ourselves safe) all wrong.

More prisons, death penalties, send children to the slammer and don't bother trying to figure out why someone commits a crime, just punish them for it...

Why would we take a fundamentally different (and really old-school) approach to the justice system. Do you think we'd actually be better off?

I think several countries would have something to say about that safest place in the world claim. We have a rising crime rate, and apparently, increasingly obvious displays of senseless brutality.

You're trying to tell me what we have works? I'm of the school of thought that rehabilitation doesn't work with many criminals, particularly violent and sexual ones. Revolving doors for sexual predators with recurrence rates in the high 90% range... what the hell are they evaluated by psychologists for? Aren't these "experts" supposed to unearth these root causes of crime and help these pricks sort it out? Then why do so many re-offend, and why should society have to suffer for this macabre experiment? Why should someone else have to suffer to test and see if some sick son of a bitch was actually "rehabilitated"?

The root causes are obvious:
because they feel they can or because they feel they have to.

Thats what it boils down to. Why do people think they can commit crime, and why do people feel they have to? Those aren't easily answered by either one of us, so I won't bother trying. However, I'd wager that a lot of why they think they can is due to the feeling that they won't get caught, or won't get punished. A sort of "seven feet tall and bulletproof" mentality.

I really don't think our glorified "time out" justice system works either. Do I think we'd be better off? Possibly. Depends on what is implemented, what the safeguards are, and whether it continues to attempt to answer the question of why.