Comcast: We’re Delaying, Not Blocking, BitTorrent Traffic

[Bobblehead]

I believe it is wrong for Comcast to do this.

If people are blowing past their bandwidth allotment, charge them for their overage. Hell, enforce hard caps. If someone wants to use more than that, let them upgrade to a higher plan. If the problem is happening because people with 20GB plans are pulling 140GB of data, those people should pay for what they use.

[Azure]

I believe Comcast isn't as up to date as Verizon and the others in regards to their back bone.

Verizon is installing fiber-optic just about everywhere.....which is why you never hear about them shutting down users who download too much.

[GreenTeaFrapp]

The worst offender is right here in Canada and it is Rogers. In some locations they slow down all encrypted data.

Want to connect to work through a VPN? Bam! You're throttled. Welcome to Rogers.

[alltherage]

Originally Posted by Flashpoint

What? You can't steal fast enough? Why are you upset about this?

Just because downloading is easy and free, doesn't make it right.

Hey, it's reality at this point, and no amount of IP hugging cyber hippies is going to change it. People are stealing music, graphics, videos, books, documents, you name it. Pointing fingers and spreading the good werd aren't going to help anything.

[mykalberta]

Shaw webmail works fine on Telus corp MPLS connection.

[mykalberta]

I would doubt its BW limitations on Comcast, at least on the last mile. I once heard from a Shaw exect that they use less than 20% of the available BW on a cable line. He may have been talking about theoretical though.

It also may be a reason of more high def tv prioritizing. Verizon doenst have to deal with that issue and With DirectTV having 100HD channels Comcast may be struggling to keep up.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by alltherage

Hey, it's reality at this point, and no amount of IP hugging cyber hippies is going to change it. People are stealing music, graphics, videos, books, documents, you name it. Pointing fingers and spreading the good werd aren't going to help anything.

If anything....the cyber hippies are going to develop a better way to steal these files.

[llama64]

Originally Posted by Azure

If anything....the cyber hippies are going to develop a better way to steal these files.

Shhhhh, the RIAA/MPAA are listening.

[Flashpoint]

Originally Posted by Azure

You think torrents are only be used to download illegal files?

A lot of open source software is put up on torrents to download.

Sure. But the majority of items being downloaded from torrents are most probably what?

Shareware?

Or the HD version of Transformers?

It's great that the software has a positive application. But the reality is that it is primarily being used to steal. So if an ISP looks at its users and sees a minority of torrent users are hogging resources (most likely not for open source software), and dials them back then I applaud their decision. It is helping to limit theft.

The fact of the matter is, if Bit Torrent was only used for open source software, most of us would never have heard of it. We know about it because it is the Napster of the current age. Free digital "anything" virtually without risk of consequences.

I see no difference between going into a store and sticking a DVD under your coat, and torrenting a movie. One, most of the adults on this site wouldn't dream of doing. The other, many of you have probably done without a second thought.

I have yet to encounter anyone who can tell me the difference between them.

[Azure]

I'm not trying to make it sound like downloading pirated movies from BitTorrent is 'right.'

Fact is....I know a lot of people who use a torrent application to send large files, and it isn't right for them if their ISP shuts them down.

Comcast would be better served to enforce the downloading limit they set....because by shutting down torrents...or cutting back the users who download that way....will only drive the geeks to find a better way to share illegal files.

5 years ago torrents were unheard of. 5 years from now there'll probably be a better system.

[Bill Bumface]

Originally Posted by Flashpoint

Sure. But the majority of items being downloaded from torrents are most probably what?

Shareware?

Or the HD version of Transformers?

It's great that the software has a positive application. But the reality is that it is primarily being used to steal. So if an ISP looks at its users and sees a minority of torrent users are hogging resources (most likely not for open source software), and dials them back then I applaud their decision. It is helping to limit theft.

The fact of the matter is, if Bit Torrent was only used for open source software, most of us would never have heard of it. We know about it because it is the Napster of the current age. Free digital "anything" virtually without risk of consequences.

I see no difference between going into a store and sticking a DVD under your coat, and torrenting a movie. One, most of the adults on this site wouldn't dream of doing. The other, many of you have probably done without a second thought.

I have yet to encounter anyone who can tell me the difference between them.

You can use http to pirate as well, and it happens all the time. Would you not be pissed if all your http traffic was throttled?

[Flashpoint]

Originally Posted by hulkrogan

You can use http to pirate as well, and it happens all the time. Would you not be pissed if all your http traffic was throttled?

Is it as pervasive as bit torrent? I would say no. BT is the pirate ship of choice for every noob out there. Hence it being in the crosshairs.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by Flashpoint

Is it as pervasive as bit torrent? I would say no. BT is the pirate ship of choice for every noob out there. Hence it being in the crosshairs.

Actually....movies, especially new releases and many of the older ones released on DVD are being hosted on google, veoh, stage6, youtube and many other video sites.

Sure you can download it from a torrent....or you can stream it straight from those video sites.

Granted, most of them are taken down with 48 hours....but they're still there, and a LOT of users download them to their computers.

Should our ISP throttle back that as well even though most of the videos hosted on those sites are legal?

[Bobblehead]

Originally Posted by Flashpoint

I see no difference between going into a store and sticking a DVD under your coat, and torrenting a movie. One, most of the adults on this site wouldn't dream of doing. The other, many of you have probably done without a second thought.

I have yet to encounter anyone who can tell me the difference between them.

With one, the store no longer has a physical item available for sale. With the other, the original item still exists in its unaltered state.

If a store has 5 chocolate bars and they are all shoplifted, the next person who wants to come in and buy one is out of luck. The chocolate bars are a "scarce" item.

If the video store only has 1 copy of The Transformers available for sale and 1,000,000 people download a HD copy of The Transformers, anyone who wants to can still go in and buy that copy of The Transformers.

There is no scarcity when you are talking about intellectual property, so arguments comparing physical property theft and intellectual property theft are misleading and incorrect.

I personally believe the creator of any intellectual property deserves to benefit from that property, but it movies, music, books, or any similar item. But I also believe that current copyright and patent laws have gone much too far and are stifling innovation and culture. There needs to be a realization that rules that existed in the pre-digital era are no longer reasonable in today's high speed world.

[habernac]

There is no scarcity when you are talking about intellectual property, so arguments comparing physical property theft and intellectual property theft are misleading and incorrect.

Come on, Bobblehead. If you download a copy of a movie, the company that produced it is getting squat. That's stealing, period. No amount of technological babble is going to change that.

[TheyCallMeBruce]

Majority of anime are unlicensed and therefore free for viewing. I'd be pretty pissed off if my isp did this to me.

[Bobblehead]

Originally Posted by habernac

There is no scarcity when you are talking about intellectual property, so arguments comparing physical property theft and intellectual property theft are misleading and incorrect.

Come on, Bobblehead. If you download a copy of a movie, the company that produced it is getting squat. That's stealing, period. No amount of technological babble is going to change that.

It is not the same as stealing any physical item.

You steal something from a store, the store paid for it and can not sell it to a paying customer.
You download a file that does not impact the store or person who wishes to pay for the item.

It is 2 different things.

I'm not saying everyone should be free to download whatever they want, but I am saying comparing physical theft to copyright infringement is not the same thing.

[MarchHare]

Originally Posted by habernac

There is no scarcity when you are talking about intellectual property, so arguments comparing physical property theft and intellectual property theft are misleading and incorrect.

Come on, Bobblehead. If you download a copy of a movie, the company that produced it is getting squat. That's stealing, period. No amount of technological babble is going to change that.

No, it's not stealing, it's copyright infringement. Both are illegal*, but there is a very important legal distinction there. Bobblehead nailed it; if I walk into HMV and shoplift a copy of the Transformers DVD, HMV loses the cost they paid their wholesaler for the product and the profit they would have earned when an honest customer purchased it. If I download that same movie from a torrent, no tangible goods have been stolen, and no retailer loses inventory or future profits from that inventory.

I'm not trying to defend illegal downloaders, but when people try to equate it to theft, as the MPAA does in their advertising campaigns, they're muddying the waters and being intellectually dishonest. Theft and copyright infringement are two very different crimes.

*In the US, anyway. Downloading copyrighted music (and movies?) has been deemed legal by the Supreme Court of Canada.

[Edit]
Too slow!

[Flashpoint]

So let me get this straight.

I make a video game. I put it in a store. A guy buys it and bit torrents it. I make no money because everyone on bit torrent gets it for free, and doesn't buy it.

So downloading is a victimless crime because the store still has their copy, and could potentially sell it?

[Flashpoint]

Originally Posted by MarchHare

No, it's not stealing, it's copyright infringement. Both are illegal*, but there is a very important legal distinction there. Bobblehead nailed it; if I walk into HMV and shoplift a copy of the Transformers DVD, HMV loses the cost they paid their wholesaler for the product and the profit they would have earned when an honest customer purchased it. If I download that same movie from a torrent, no tangible goods have been stolen, and no retailer loses inventory or future profits from that inventory.

Explain the bold part to me. How can they expect to sell a product to a market saturated with free versions? Sounds like a loss of "future profits" to me.