Comcast: We’re Delaying, Not Blocking, BitTorrent Traffic - Calgarypuck Forums - The Unofficial Calgary Flames Fan Community

Azure · 10-23-2007, 10:40 AM

http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2007/1...rrent-traffic/

Quote:

Last week, the folks at cable giant Comcast asked for more time to give a nuanced response to a report that the company was blocking some peer-to-peer traffic on its network. The public relations staff at the Philadelphia company seemed genuinely baffled by accusations that it was interfering with file-sharing applications like BitTorrent and Gnutella. They stubbornly insisted that they did not monitor or block any Internet traffic – despite strong evidence to the contrary.

Today, Comcast tried to do a bit better – while sticking to its guns. “Comcast does not block access to any Web sites or online applications, including peer-to-peer services like BitTorrent” read a written statement. “We have a responsibility to provide all of our customers with a good Internet experience and we use the latest technologies to manage our network so that they can continue to enjoy these applications.”

losers.

Flashpoint · 10-23-2007, 10:42 AM

What? You can't steal fast enough? Why are you upset about this?

Just because downloading is easy and free, doesn't make it right.

BlackArcher101 · 10-23-2007, 10:44 AM

Latest in technologies to manage the network sounds like something Shaw would say.

llama64 · 10-23-2007, 10:45 AM

Hopefully a Democratic government in the US will finally enact legislation protecting internet neutrality. The amount of power the US teleco's wield over the population is rather frightening.

Glad I don't live in the US.

Or Italy for that matter.
http://www.boingboing.net/2007/10/22...ses-a-min.html

llama64 · 10-23-2007, 10:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flashpoint

What? You can't steal fast enough? Why are you upset about this?

Just because downloading is easy and free, doesn't make it right.

Bit Torrent is a legitimate distribution technology used by many companies to move data around. Blizzard is a good example as is most Linux distributions.

Bit Torrent != Pirating.

Flash Walken · 10-23-2007, 10:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flashpoint

What? You can't steal fast enough? Why are you upset about this?

Just because downloading is easy and free, doesn't make it right.

lol

Flashpoint · 10-23-2007, 10:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by llama64

Bit Torrent is a legitimate distribution technology used by many companies to move data around. Blizzard is a good example as is most Linux distributions.

Bit Torrent != Pirating.

Uh huh. I am sure the majority of Bit Torrent and Gnutella users are companies engaged in legitimate business.

Riiiiight...

Rathji · 10-23-2007, 10:54 AM

BitTorrents are a large source of people going over their contractually allotted bandwidth, a company that didn't throttle torrent downloads would be totally stupid. This has nothing to do with stealing music or movies, and everything to do with you going over the bandwidth you have paid for in 2 days.

Also, since the service is not cut off, but merely downgraded temporarily , businesses with legitimate reasons for using torrents are not crippled, but merely annoyed. If your company MUST have its product delivered via bittorrent, and you cannot wait for the extra time it takes, then cough up the $$$ it takes to have an ISP that doesn't do these things.

mykalberta · 10-23-2007, 10:54 AM

They likely prioritize packets and set torrent sites at a lower priority since they are more BW hogs than other normal surfing.

IMO Comcast doesnt have a responsibility to make sure bit torrent works fast, just that the majority of their customers have a fast experience. Its also possible however unlikely they changed the routing scheme to thwart those peer to peer apps.

At UNC especially they are testing peer to peer spider schemes on different routing algorithms. Its a way ISPs can limit their traffic while still adhering to the subscriber contract.

Azure · 10-23-2007, 10:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flashpoint

What? You can't steal fast enough? Why are you upset about this?

Just because downloading is easy and free, doesn't make it right.

You think torrents are only be used to download illegal files?

A lot of open source software is put up on torrents to download.

llama64 · 10-23-2007, 11:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flashpoint

Uh huh. I am sure the majority of Bit Torrent and Gnutella users are companies engaged in legitimate business.

Riiiiight...

I agree with you that pirating is morally bankrupt activity (just go buy the damn CD you cheap skate). But de-prioritizing bit-torrent traffic, or otherwise differentiating between data traffic in general is a bad idea going forward.

This is the debate the spawned the infamous "internet is full of tubes" quote. Any interference in net traffic opens the door for certain ISP's to control where we can go on the internet. Say... Disney doesn't like people going to Dreamwork's website/store... they walk down the hall to AOL and get them to slow traffic to Dreamworks across their network. If Comcast can do this to a certain type of traffic, why wouldn't any ISP/Teleco be able to do the same to the traffic flowing across their network?

This will lead to a multi-tiered internet that will ultimately hurt us as the users.

ken0042 · 10-23-2007, 11:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by llama64

If Comcast can do this to a certain type of traffic, why wouldn't any ISP/Teleco be able to do the same to the traffic flowing across their network?

This is already happening here in Calgary. I dare you- try to access your Shaw Webmail from a friend's house who uses Telus as an ISP.

arsenal · 10-23-2007, 11:14 AM

It's not only torrent or gnutella traffic that is being slowed/blocked. Lotus Note traffic is suffering from the same fate.
http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post...-affected.html

Quote:

When Lotus Notes users attempt to send e-mail with larger attachments over Comcast's network, Notes will drop its connection. Instead of a successfully sent e-mail, they're greeted with the error message, "Remote system no longer responding." Kanarski did some digging and has managed to verify that Comcast's reset packets are the culprit. Instead of passing the legitimate e-mail through its network, Comcast's traffic monitoring tool (likely Sandvine) is sitting in the middle, imitating both ends of the connection, and sending reset packets to both client and server.

llama64 · 10-23-2007, 11:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ken0042

This is already happening here in Calgary. I dare you- try to access your Shaw Webmail from a friend's house who uses Telus as an ISP.

Can anyone confirm this? I've done it before, but that was 5 years back. I'm not in a position to check it anymore.

I believe actively blocking competitor's sites/services is illegal in Canada so if this is true, Telus would be liable.

mykalberta · 10-23-2007, 11:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by llama64

I agree with you that pirating is morally bankrupt activity (just go buy the damn CD you cheap skate). But de-prioritizing bit-torrent traffic, or otherwise differentiating between data traffic in general is a bad idea going forward.

Why is it a bad idea (I get it from a free speech angle - but I dont think faster BT speeds constitute free speech)? Bit torrent users are famous for their hogging of system resources compared to the person who pays the same $40/month and uses their internet to check cooking recipies. Why should that cooking recipie take an extra 5 seconds to download just so person X in his parents basement can download every episode of Sienfeld faster.

I know people on here would be in an uproar if Shaw actually inforced their downloading limits - maybe that is what it takes. Have a hard cap at 40Gb per month. and 5$/Gb over the limit. When I have used BT my monthy downloads can get over the 140Gb range. In a month I dont use BT, my traffic is under 20Gb. I would guess that 60% of account holders with Shaw or Telus dont use 10Gb per month so 40 seems very generous for most users which is what Comcast should be concerned with.

BlackArcher101 · 10-23-2007, 11:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ken0042

This is already happening here in Calgary. I dare you- try to access your Shaw Webmail from a friend's house who uses Telus as an ISP.

Are you talking about webmail or using the shaw mail servers on the telus network? I don't see how Telus can do this since webmail is http. I can access shaw webmail just fine from any network.

photon · 10-23-2007, 11:27 AM

The problem is ISP's oversell their bandwidth but continue to advertise the unlimited connection idea.

It'd be great if ISP's would actually enforce their bandwidth restrictions and give the option for people who use more to pay more. It would actually make it better for everyone. Easier for them to allocate resources. But they won't because that goes against their $40/month fits everyone's needs style of advertising, so they'll continue to just oversell and advertise the way they are.

Shaw's one of the better ones because they actually do have different tiers with different limits that are advertised.

And yes, torrent usage doesn't equal pirating, there are tons of legit uses for torrents and they will continue to grow as more companies figure out that using torrents means they don't have to invest in huge resources to host their stuff.

cSpooge · 10-23-2007, 11:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlackArcher101

Are you talking about webmail or using the shaw mail servers on the telus network? I don't see how Telus can do this since webmail is http. I can access shaw webmail just fine from any network.

if hes talking about the mail servers... its not just telus it's all mail servers but that is a product of all mail servers not just shaw. There is a reason shaw has a pop mail server setup so that you can check your shaw email when you are not connected to their network.

MelBridgeman · 10-23-2007, 11:31 AM

most ISP's block third party mail servers...if you try and setup your telus email on outlook on a shaw network you have to use the shaw SMTP servers to send email..

i can access telus webmail on the shaw network

oh and shaw>>>>>>telus

ken0042 · 10-23-2007, 11:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlackArcher101

Are you talking about webmail or using the shaw mail servers on the telus network? I don't see how Telus can do this since webmail is http. I can access shaw webmail just fine from any network.

Nope, not hitting the mail servers, just webmail.

Just found that in the last 6 months I've rebuilt 3 friends' computers who were on Telus. Each time I've been at their house testing to make sure I setup their mail correctly, I have been unable to get into Webmail. It just times out and gives me "page cannot be displayed."

Could be a co-incidence. Maybe somebody on Telus can try right now. Go into http://webmail.shaw.ca and see if you can get to the site. If you do, enter anything for username and password; if it won't allow me in I'm sure it doesn't matter if you enter the wrong password.