10-17-2007, 01:28 AM
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#1
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Lifetime Suspension
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Global warming and Drought...at it again
This is getting very concerning, before we know it we'll be planting palm tree's in our front yards.
Just some of the problems:
"The Great Lakes, which together make up about 20 percent of the world's fresh surface water, have been in decline since the late 1990s. Lakes Huron and Michigan were about two feet below their long-term average levels, while Lake Superior was about 20 inches off, Lake Ontario 7 inches below and Lake Erie a few inches down."
" The Tennessee Valley Authority shut down Browns Ferry Unit II nuclear power plant due to inadequate stream flow."
"With the worldwide warming, the extent of Arctic Sea ice reached its lowest amount in September since satellite measurements began in 1979, shattering the previous record low set in 2005"
http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/weather/1....ap/index.html
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10-17-2007, 02:57 AM
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#2
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Powerplay Quarterback
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I'm not sure about anyone else, but when I read that they've been keeping track of Arctic Sea levels for LESS than 50 years I tend to say "As if they can develop a logical trend". Even then, 50 years on a planet billions of years old and we figure we know what we're talking about?
I'm amazed people still accept human caused global warming as a sound theory. It's fear instilling facts are nothing more than that. Everyone has an agenda, including 'environmental watchdogs'. I'm not at all against finding clean fuels and limiting CO2 going into the atmosphere, but for different reasons than the fear that New York is going to be wiped out by raising sea levels.
And I have yet to read a scientist argue against global warming and cooling trends which have been proven (can you say ice age?) through factual findings. The earth never said it was going to stay the same throughout our comparatively small time on this planet.
__________________
Your resident Apple fan-boy.
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10-17-2007, 08:10 AM
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#3
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First Line Centre
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Not Abu Dhabi
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So where does all this water go? Into the sky, right?
And wouldn't that become a positive feedback cycle where global warming is actually accelerated by the addition of more water vapour? Not good...
Of course, at what point do all these greenhouse gases stop merely acting as greenhouse gases and actually prevent heat from entering our atmosphere in the first place?
Or maybe the sky becomes saturated with all this extra vapour and it suddenly rains more?
Lots of questions with this issue... anyone who claims to have all the answers and everything figured out is probably not the first person I'm going to trust in all this.
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10-17-2007, 08:56 AM
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#4
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Calgary
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Juventus3
I'm not sure about anyone else, but when I read that they've been keeping track of Arctic Sea levels for LESS than 50 years I tend to say "As if they can develop a logical trend". Even then, 50 years on a planet billions of years old and we figure we know what we're talking about?
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thats my big issue with alot of the global warming research going on, yes you've done all this research and stuff, but you take your research to a statistician and they would laugh you out of their office. Its weird how research has just taken to ignoring statistics and deviation and the like in the name of science. you read a medical journal and you find enough statistics to choke on, global warming? nothing.
Its great that water levels are off their long term averages, what i wanna know is what they are in relation to other drought period, how about the 1930s?
I think we're finally getting to the point where people are actually starting to get tired of the global warming pseudo science, where every single weather anomoly is suddenly climate change in action, since when did the weather stop being the weather?
Last edited by Dan02; 10-17-2007 at 09:01 AM.
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10-17-2007, 08:59 AM
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#5
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Chiefs Kingdom, Yankees Universe, C of Red.
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One would think that the decline in the water level of the Great Lakes would be due to increased human use. Or is that a far fetched idea?
__________________
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10-17-2007, 09:07 AM
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#6
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Calgary
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Quote:
Originally Posted by burn_baby_burn
One would think that the decline in the water level of the Great Lakes would be due to increased human use. Or is that a far fetched idea?
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Actually i was just reading some info, apparently CBC did a documentary on the subject and came to the conclusion more water then usual was entering the great lakes and that other human activities were responsible for pretty much all of the water loss.
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10-17-2007, 09:16 AM
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#7
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JD
Of course, at what point do all these greenhouse gases stop merely acting as greenhouse gases and actually prevent heat from entering our atmosphere in the first place?
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Already happening.
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/sun/
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10-17-2007, 11:14 AM
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#8
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Lifetime Suspension
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Juventus3
I'm not sure about anyone else, but when I read that they've been keeping track of Arctic Sea levels for LESS than 50 years I tend to say "As if they can develop a logical trend". Even then, 50 years on a planet billions of years old and we figure we know what we're talking about?
I'm amazed people still accept human caused global warming as a sound theory. It's fear instilling facts are nothing more than that. Everyone has an agenda, including 'environmental watchdogs'. I'm not at all against finding clean fuels and limiting CO2 going into the atmosphere, but for different reasons than the fear that New York is going to be wiped out by raising sea levels.
And I have yet to read a scientist argue against global warming and cooling trends which have been proven (can you say ice age?) through factual findings. The earth never said it was going to stay the same throughout our comparatively small time on this planet.
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But what about the things that are recorded?
Atlantic water temperature for instance stayed relatively the same from the 1850's to 1970 but since then is up about 2 degrees and climbing at an alarming rate. Its no suprise that hurricans are more common and more powerful,since they started recording hurrican strenghts in the 50's a cat4-5 formed every 5.7 years up to year 1990, from 1990-2000 once every 2.2 years and now each year theres at least 2. even the pacific is getting far more tropical cyclones than ever before.
What about glaciers? the movements of glaciers has been recorded for hundreds of years and since 1980 most glaciers have receded 100 times more than the previous 25 years.
I personally have a hard time believing that humans had no part in these types of things happening and it just part of a normal trend that the planet goes threw every few thousand years.
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10-17-2007, 11:34 AM
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#9
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First Line Centre
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Calgary, Alberta
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Regardless of whether or not climate change is man-caused or not (though I certainly believe we're not helping any,) the AAAS, NASA, USCAP, Exxon and even the Pentagon have said the time has come for significant changes in our emissions, and that we start taking steps to prepare for the radical weather that is going to happen whether or not we are at all responsible for it. Mother Nature doesn't care who was responsible, because the weather is changing, growing increasingly more radical, and she is still going to forfill her end of the bargain.
Unfortunately, it's all falling of deaf ears. Apparently a War on Terror, Britney Spears going to jail, and raiding Karazahn on World of WarCraft are all more important than preventing lives from being lost, cities from being flooded, or water shortages all across North America, (as if they aren't bad enough already.) The public thought Katrina was bad? They haven't even fixed the levees! Or at least not well enough to prevent another Category 3 hurricane from wiping out half of that city, again.
Last edited by TheDragon; 10-17-2007 at 11:39 AM.
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10-17-2007, 11:41 AM
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#10
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Powerplay Quarterback
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Quote:
Originally Posted by T@T
But what about the things that are recorded?
Atlantic water temperature for instance stayed relatively the same from the 1850's to 1970 but since then is up about 2 degrees and climbing at an alarming rate. Its no suprise that hurricans are more common and more powerful,since they started recording hurrican strenghts in the 50's a cat4-5 formed every 5.7 years up to year 1990, from 1990-2000 once every 2.2 years and now each year theres at least 2. even the pacific is getting far more tropical cyclones than ever before.
What about glaciers? the movements of glaciers has been recorded for hundreds of years and since 1980 most glaciers have receded 100 times more than the previous 25 years.
I personally have a hard time believing that humans had no part in these types of things happening and it just part of a normal trend that the planet goes threw every few thousand years.
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None of these facts or figures disproves my natural warming suggestion. This planet has been around longer than us and has gone back and forth in average temps.
Also, suggesting hurricanes are getting worse is completely bogus. There's no pattern at all.
__________________
Your resident Apple fan-boy.
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10-17-2007, 11:49 AM
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#11
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Calgary
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Juventus3
Also, suggesting hurricanes are getting worse is completely bogus. There's no pattern at all.
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People like to make patterns where theres not any because people would much rather see a trend they can hope to predict then pretty much random events happening.
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10-17-2007, 11:51 AM
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#12
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Lifetime Suspension
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Calgary
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Quote:
Originally Posted by T@T
But what about the things that are recorded?
Atlantic water temperature for instance stayed relatively the same from the 1850's to 1970 but since then is up about 2 degrees and climbing at an alarming rate. Its no suprise that hurricans are more common and more powerful,since they started recording hurrican strenghts in the 50's a cat4-5 formed every 5.7 years up to year 1990, from 1990-2000 once every 2.2 years and now each year theres at least 2. even the pacific is getting far more tropical cyclones than ever before.
What about glaciers? the movements of glaciers has been recorded for hundreds of years and since 1980 most glaciers have receded 100 times more than the previous 25 years.
I personally have a hard time believing that humans had no part in these types of things happening and it just part of a normal trend that the planet goes threw every few thousand years.
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Glaciers used to cover calgary and much of canada...then they started to receded....and they still are since the last ice age was a only 10,000 years ago - which is a second on the earth's clock.
The sun which without there would no life and the single biggest factor in driving the earths climate, which is so large it could fit a million planet earth's inside of it, and yet we arrogant humans still think that we have the knowledge to conclude that we are the ones now driving our climate or effecting it in such a massive way....
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10-17-2007, 12:11 PM
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#13
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#1 Goaltender
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Calgary
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan02
People like to make patterns where theres not any because people would much rather see a trend they can hope to predict then pretty much random events happening.
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Well... there certainly are trends/patterns to hurricanes, so I'm not sure what you're saying here.
http://www.cpc.noaa.gov/products/out...urricane.shtml
NOAA is predicting a very high likelihood (85% chance) of an above-normal 2007 Atlantic hurricane season, a 10% chance of a near-normal season, and only a 5% chance of a below-normal season, according to a consensus of scientists at the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA) Climate Prediction Center, National Hurricane Center, Hurricane Research Division, and Hydrometeorological Prediction Center.
The outlook calls for an even higher probability of an above-normal season than was predicted in May (75%), and reiterates the expectation for a sharp increase in activity from the near-normal season observed last year. The 2007 season is expected to become the tenth above-normal season since the current active hurricane era began twelve years ago (in 1995). See NOAA’s definitions of above-, near-, and below-normal seasons.
In fact this organization is so arrogant that they actually predict the chances of certain types of hurricanes coming. Imagine the sheer pride and stupidity it takes to do that... right?
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10-17-2007, 12:13 PM
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#14
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Crash and Bang Winger
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: san diego
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MelBridgeman
Glaciers used to cover calgary and much of canada...then they started to receded....and they still are since the last ice age was a only 10,000 years ago - which is a second on the earth's clock.
The sun which without there would no life and the single biggest factor in driving the earths climate, which is so large it could fit a million planet earth's inside of it, and yet we arrogant humans still think that we have the knowledge to conclude that we are the ones now driving our climate or effecting it in such a massive way....
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I think the contention is that we are effecting a small amount of change that might produce some undesirable effects (for some)
That doesn't seem arrogant to me. I would hate to see trillions of dollars flushed away in an effort to keep things the same instead of just letting people adapt.
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10-17-2007, 12:17 PM
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#15
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Calgary
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Agamemnon
Well... there certainly are trends...
In fact this organization is so arrogant that they actually predict the chances of certain types of hurricanes coming. Imagine the sheer pride and stupidity it takes to do that... right?
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trends are completely different then patterns, if there was a pattern to it then they should be able to tell us what its going to be like 5, 10 or 20 years from now, not less then 1. Analyzing current factors they come up with the forecast for the winter coming, they have no idea what these factors will look like next year. Further more there was such a lack of pattern that they originally made the forecast in May then realized with was wrong and revised it in August.
Further more the forecast calls for 7-10 hurricanes this year, 3-5 major hurricanes. So far nearing the end of hurricane season there have been only 4 hurricanes and only 2 major hurricanes.
Last edited by Dan02; 10-17-2007 at 12:22 PM.
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10-17-2007, 12:31 PM
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#16
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Lifetime Suspension
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Calgary
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Quote:
Originally Posted by badnarik
I think the contention is that we are effecting a small amount of change that might produce some undesirable effects (for some)
That doesn't seem arrogant to me. I would hate to see trillions of dollars flushed away in an effort to keep things the same instead of just letting people adapt.
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Yes we think we can "change it" or "reverse it" I hear it all the time...does anyone really know if we can? Its not like "science" as never been wrong...
it shouldnt suprise anyone that the climate is warming, considering the mamoths amounts of ice that covered the globe just 10,000 years ago...of course the first 9500 years of that warming was just nature and the next 500 are human caused....hey i am not going to deny that we have an effect etc...but its more than just putting carbon into the air....in fact i would suggest that is just a tiny portion of it...building out concrete cities while destroying natural habitant....cutting down trees, pollutants etc...
When i was young in the 80's it was all about "Dont litter" than all about the "Save the Amazon" and then "Save the Ozone"...before me it was "The Earth is warming"....
Last edited by MelBridgeman; 10-17-2007 at 12:39 PM.
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10-17-2007, 12:33 PM
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#17
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Calgary
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MelBridgeman
hey i am not going to deny that we have an effect etc...but its more than just putting carbon into the air.
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I think alot of people don't realize we aren't creating carbon, we are just releasing the carbon that was previously stored in the form of coal, oil etc. so i like to think of it as restoring the earth to its previous balance before all these animals and plants came and sucked all the carbon out of the system.
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10-17-2007, 12:37 PM
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#18
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Lifetime Suspension
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Calgary
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan02
I think alot of people don't realize we aren't creating carbon, we are just releasing the carbon that was previously stored in the form of coal, oil etc. so i like to think of it as restoring the earth to its previous balance before all these animals and plants came and sucked all the carbon out of the system. 
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that is true, and eventually regardless of what effect it has on our comfortable life, the earth well find away to deal with it, and really there is not a whole lot we can do about it.
99.1 % of species on this planet have gone extinct..we flourished in a time that was contusive to humans becoming the dominant species but eventually regardless of what we do, a time will come when things wont be contusive for us to flourish, that is just the way nature works
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10-17-2007, 12:57 PM
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#19
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Powerplay Quarterback
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MelBridgeman
that is true, and eventually regardless of what effect it has on our comfortable life, the earth well find away to deal with it, and really there is not a whole lot we can do about it.
99.1 % of species on this planet have gone extinct..we flourished in a time that was contusive to humans becoming the dominant species but eventually regardless of what we do, a time will come when things wont be contusive for us to flourish, that is just the way nature works
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It's hard to say whether we'll become extinct. We understand our planet better than any before us. Frankly I think we're too intelligent to just get wiped out. Barring a meteorite strike or human (nuclear) disaster.
__________________
Your resident Apple fan-boy.
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10-17-2007, 01:05 PM
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#20
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Calgary
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Juventus3
Frankly I think we're too intelligent to just get wiped out. Barring a meteorite strike or human (nuclear) disaster.
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I think we really need to expand beyond this planet because it's only a matter of time when we're so "smart" that all it will take is 1 loney and the planet is done for.
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