'Second Earth' found, 20 light years away

[Ford Prefect]

Originally Posted by evman150

I know I will come off sounding like an ass here, but this is a statement more directed at society than directly at you.

How does one even pose this question? How are there gaps that big in our education that someone can pose this question?

It is so fundamental...so fundamental. It really is a sad commentary on the science education the general public receives.

/snip

Never, ever, underestimate the intelligence of the masses ... that was the golden rule that was taught to me in a advertising copy writing course I once took.

My neighbour, who is a very succesful businessman and bright in many ways, once questioned what makes stars fall from the sky when we saw a meteor streaking through the night sky. Of course, he went to school in Saskatchewan ... just kidding. I love Saskatchewan.

[Dan02]

according to my attempted calculations, if we assume that by 1.5 times the size they meant volume, gravity is rought 37 m/ss or 4 times that on earth. if its 1.5 times by radius then it only roughly twice the gravity at about 18.5m/ss

[evman150]

They mean 1.5x the radius.

Since the acceleration due to gravity is proportional to r^-2, this results in a value of g of 4g[earth]/9. But it is also proportional to the mass, in this case estimated to be 5 earth masses. So we get a final value for the acceleration due to gravity of 20*g[earth]/9, or about 21.8 ms^-2.

This also answers Cowperson's assertion. How fast an object is spinning is inconsequential.

[J pold]

Originally Posted by evman150

They mean 1.5x the radius.

Since the acceleration due to gravity is proportional to r^-2, this results in a value of g of 4g[earth]/9. But it is also proportional to the mass, in this case estimated to be 5 earth masses. So we get a final value for the acceleration due to gravity of 20*g[earth]/9, or about 21.8 ms^-2.

This also answers Cowperson's assertion. How fast an object is spinning is inconsequential.

Are you trying to show us how smart you are? Or just trying to convince yourself?

[4X4]

Originally Posted by J pold

Are you trying to show us how smart you are? Or just trying to convince yourself?

Hope you're just ribbing him, but incase you're actually offended by his knowledge of physics, I hop you give Troutman the same treatment when he contributes to a law thread. We wouldn't want any actual knowledge in our forum.

[evman150]

I'm just trying to provide a correct answer, the first in this thread.

I don't have to convince myself how smart I am. And showing off on physics 12/first year astronomy surely wouldn't do it for me even if I was looking to.

[Cowperson]

Originally Posted by photon

You're kidding right? Please say you're kidding.

evman150, be gentle.

Yeah . . . . I was kidding. That's the ticket. Kidding.

Cowperson

[badnarik]

Originally Posted by evman150

It is just indicative of a general ignorance of science, which unfortunately is disturbingly pervasive in our society.

Like I said before, I'm not asking people to be able to define it as (3E8*60*60*24*365.24)m, only that they be familiar with the unit, that they know it to be a distance, and a very long one at that.

The question "How many light years is mars away?" indicates that the person asking knew it was a measure of distance.

What is the proper way to measure the distance to Mars?

[Dan02]

Originally Posted by badnarik

What is the proper way to measure the distance to Mars?

sealy serta mattresses

[MoneyGuy]

Originally Posted by Hemi-Cuda

mars is 0.00000596 light years from earth. 20 light years may be close universally speaking, but it's still farther than man will ever travel in our lifetime

Not once we master warp drive.

[badnarik]

Originally Posted by Dan02

sealy serta mattresses

lol i was thinking mars bars

[newts]

Originally Posted by Dan02

sealy serta mattresses

I'm not the type of guy who comes into a thread and says "I spit my lunch on my monitor after reading this", but I must say that some of my chilli exited my mouth after I read this.

[jammies]

Originally Posted by Sowa

My question is why is it necessary that people know what a light year is? It's not knowledge that 99.9% of people need or will find useful at anytime during their life.

Knowledge has intrinsic value; it does not have to fulfill a need or be useful.

That being said, the concept of a light-year is important in understanding cosmology, which is important in understanding how the universe began, which is important in understanding why, for example (and only for example, I am not interested in yet another creation debate), young-earth creationists are hopelessly deluded. That is just one example of how all knowledge is interrelated and how knowing seemingly "useless" facts and definitions in one subject deepens one's understanding in many, seemingly unrelated subjects.

People without the grounding in such knowledge often are prone to having utterly absurd beliefs about the nature of reality; the danger of this is, no doubt, obvious.

[Dion]

Fastest we have every had a manned spacecraft travel is 600,000 miles per day. That would take around 112 years to get to Proxima Centauri. Obviously a planet four times further is that much more difficult.

Bear in mind that our technology is so primitive we have trouble feeding and providing air for the lunar expeditions, and nobody can quite figure out how we could supply the Martian expedition which wold take over a year. Don't hold ya breath.

[Reaper]

Originally Posted by Dan02

according to my attempted calculations, if we assume that by 1.5 times the size they meant volume, gravity is rought 37 m/ss or 4 times that on earth. if its 1.5 times by radius then it only roughly twice the gravity at about 18.5m/ss

So, if we could get this whole warp drive thing going then we could use this new planet as "Work-out World." Imagine how strong you'd be on Earth after returning from a 6 week exercise vacation on Work-out World...

[Swarly]

Originally Posted by Reaper

So, if we could get this whole warp drive thing going then we could use this new planet as "Work-out World." Imagine how strong you'd be on Earth after returning from a 6 week exercise vacation on Work-out World...

Lets just hope that if this planet does have life that they haven't found our planet yet. Just think of the army of 'Super-men' they could send to conquer us.

[MaDMaN_26]

Originally Posted by 4X4

Hope you're just ribbing him, but incase you're actually offended by his knowledge of physics, I hop you give Troutman the same treatment when he contributes to a law thread. We wouldn't want any actual knowledge in our forum.

Intelligence is welcome, arrogance is not... I think a fine line is being walked in this thread.

[ken0042]

A few random thoughts:

- At some point in our lives we each didn't know what a light year was. The person asked a question here; which was indeed quantifiable. No need to continue beating that dead horse; as I'm sure each of us will at some point want to know something, and it would be nice to be able to ask.

- 20 LY is relatively close. If we sent a message today, we could get an answer back within my lifetime. That is good to know.

- Watching Discovery once it is believed that the greatest obsticle an Earth ship would face is the radiation that exists beyond the orbit of Pluto. Beyond that the issue is the size of the vessel, as it would need to be large enough to contain enough supplies to keep the humans alive. Next issue is deceleration. There are theoretical engines out there that could propel us up to 1/5 the speed of light. But once we get up to that speed; we would need that much fuel again to decelerate the ship.

- Another issue with a launch today. let's say we discovered this planet in 1967, and immediately launched a ship. With 2007 technology, we could catch up to that 1967 ship and pass them in about 5 years; making the 1967 launch a waste of time. Then the year 2047 rolls around, and the 2007 ship also gets passed by something newer and faster. And before the 2047 ship gets there, it also gets passed by another ship launched in 2087.

- Gravity. Keep in mind it's based on mass; not volume. I forget the exact numbers, but Jupiter is about 1000 times the volume of Earth. But the gravity is only about 10 times our own. So this planet having 1.5 times the volume may have as much or even less gravity. If their core is aluminum instead of iron like Earth's, it could have less mass. If you still have issues with my mass vs volume example; think of it this way- I'm going to throw a ball at your head and it's going to hit your head at 25 mph. Would you rather I throw a beachball, or a snooker ball? (One has more volume; one has more mass)

- If there is intelligent life on this planet, they could be decades or even centuries ahead or behind us. If they are ahead; they may have near light speed capabilities; but don't know where to point their ships. If we send them a message; they could come visit us. If they are behind us by 100 years, they could send us details of their solar system. With the details we could use their planets like Jupiter, Saturn and Uranus to slow down our approach.

Very cool to explore all the possibilities.

[CaptainCrunch]

In all of this talk about going to Mars and lightspeed, shouldn't we focus on actually putting a man on the moon first?

[Flamescupbound!]

Originally Posted by Swarly

Lets just hope that if this planet does have life that they haven't found our planet yet. Just think of the army of 'Super-men' they could send to conquer us.

Or if they are weak compared to us, when we aquire the appropriate technology we could send a fleet and conquer them before they even know what's going on, not unlike all the alien invasion movies we have here.