Operation Christmas Child - Make An Informed Decision

[OracleOfCalgary]

I have been solicited for this "shoebox donation" program by several different people already this year. You should be aware that these shoeboxes are used as a tool for converting people to Christianity in third world nations and the program is operated principally by evangelical Christian groups. My main beef with the program, however, is that collecting and distributing these shoeboxes is a huge waste of resources. Rather than spending $10 on a bunch of junk that these children don't need and shipping it across the world, why not just donate the $10 to a reputable organization and these children can get the food and medication that they really need.

See more: http://www.pursestrings.ca

[Azure]

It is a reputable organization....with the right to help these children.

The 'religious' aspect, and whether it is good or bad is debatable.

OCC has done a lot of good over the years.

BTW, they do more than give out gifts...so I have no idea what the hell you're complaining about.

Sad how those of us here on NA will complain about an organization that went above and beyond your normal charity organization and started something different. Sure in the bigger scheme of things these 'gifts' might mean nothing to YOU....but they sure as heck mean something to the kids receiving them.

[Rathji]

Are you are honestly that against Christians and their doctrine that you would prevent a child from getting a present if it was given by someone who told them about Christ?

There are no words that would bypass a filter that are fit for you.

[Phaneuf3]

probably mostly have to do with people wanting to put together a shoebox rather than just shell out $10.

which would your kid rather do and is more likely to do - take the time to put together a shoebox of things that could help a child's life (maybe not as much as food, but other things are important as well) or lose his allowance. on one hand, you've got the child relating to the child that will be receiving it and making them seem more - i dunno... real? human? you pick the way you want to describe it. on the other hand, you have your child/you pull out the wallet, give your donation and never really think about it. make our children relate to children in the third world through this shoebox program and you might ingrain a more positive view of charity on them.

plus with cash donations, how much goes to administration type stuff and how much does the intended recipient actually see?

[Azure]

Originally Posted by Rathji

Are you are honestly that against Christians and their doctrine that you would prevent a child from getting a present if it was given by someone who told them about Christ?

There are no words that would bypass a filter that are fit for you.

I don't have a problem with someone not wanting to support a religious organization, and would rather give their money to someone who stays 'neutral.'

But this is different....spend 10 bucks on something better?

I completely agree with your last line.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by Phaneuf3

probably mostly have to do with people wanting to put together a shoebox rather than just shell out $10.

which would your kid rather do and is more likely to do - take the time to put together a shoebox of things that could help a child's life (maybe not as much as food, but other things are important as well) or lose his allowance. on one hand, you've got the child relating to the child that will be receiving it and making them seem more - i dunno... real? human? you pick the way you want to describe it. on the other hand, you have your child/you pull out the wallet, give your donation and never really think about it. make our children relate to children in the third world through this shoebox program and you might ingrain a more positive view of charity on them.

plus with cash donations, how much goes to administration type stuff and how much does the intended recipient actually see?

Exactly.

And I've seen parents sit down with their kids and explain to them why each item was put into a shoebox...and why something so simple can greatly benefit a child living in a 3rd world country.

Sometimes I really wonder if people have forgotten how important 'giving' is.

[FlamesFanInEdm]

Originally Posted by OracleOfCalgary

I have been solicited for this "shoebox donation" program by several different people already this year. You should be aware that these shoeboxes are used as a tool for converting people to Christianity in third world nations and the program is operated principally by evangelical Christian groups. My main beef with the program, however, is that collecting and distributing these shoeboxes is a huge waste of resources. Rather than spending $10 on a bunch of junk that these children don't need and shipping it across the world, why not just donate the $10 to a reputable organization and these children can get the food and medication that they really need.

See more: http://www.pursestrings.ca

How is this a waste of resources?? Its mostly volunteers that run this thing. IMHO, you gotta be pretty heartless to so vehemently oppose this that you feel compelled to come on here to tell others not to participate. I've never done this, but I plan on picking one up this year.
________
FAIRLANE

[Burninator]

Originally Posted by OracleOfCalgary

You should be aware that these shoeboxes are used as a tool for converting people to Christianity in third world nations and the program is operated principally by evangelical Christian groups.

Can you elaborate? Do they only give the shoe boxes to Christian children? At what capacity are they converting people to Christianity?

[troutman]

We sponsor a child through World Vision, and I suppose they do really good work for the most part. I was mislead about the missionary aspects. I would prefer that there were no strings attached - these children need food, water and education.

[burn_this_city]

Sad state of affairs when people nit pick everything... I'm not religious in the slightest but some of us "Athiests" seem to go a lil far in the fight for secularism.. Just because an organization has a religious origin, doesnt mean they fly around the world indoctrinating everyone. Also I think theres a lil more to life than medicine and food. Last I checked kids don't exactly get excited for a typhoid vaccine.

[Buff]

My wife has been doing this for years now. When she was going to school at UofA she was the organizer for her class to do this. Its actually a fun way to give to the needy. Though you put more work into doing it, it is easier to do something like this than to just write a check or hand out cash for other donations.

[Phaneuf3]

man... i just had to come back here and read the original post to make sure i didn't misread this.

thanks for the reminder though about the shoeboxes, it had slipped my mind. for every shoebox you don't donate (i guess that'd be one each year), i'm going to donate 3.

[ken0042]

Many people feel better about giving a person in need something tangible instead of money. Part of that comes from our own experiences where a homeless person asks us for money because they are hungry, then balks when we offer to go into 7-11 and buy them a sandwich.

Yes, there are different ways of getting aid to those who need it; and some methods may be more efficient than others. But at the end of the day, if this gets people giving who might not give otherwise, then I'm all for it.

[troutman]

Originally Posted by Rathji

Are you are honestly that against Christians and their doctrine that you would prevent a child from getting a present if it was given by someone who told them about Christ?

There are no words that would bypass a filter that are fit for you.

Why can't the gift be given without the strings attached? It's not really a gift otherwise. It's like getting a free booze cruise in Pto. Vallarta (but the catch is you have to sit through a 3 hour time share seminar first).

[Phaneuf3]

Originally Posted by troutman

Why can't the gift be given without the strings attached? It's not really a gift otherwise. It's like getting a free booze cruise in Pto. Vallarta (but the catch is you have to sit through a 3 hour time share seminar first).

is there a charity that uses the same concept or a similar concept that doesn't come with any strings at all?

also, what exactly are these strings that are attached to these shoeboxes?

[Sparks]

I think he does have a good point. These organizations do have religion as part of the package. By supporting these organizations, you are supporting their message and its religious agenda.

BUT

I don't mean to imply that they think of themselves as having an agenda. They probably believe that they are doing the kids a favour by preaching Christianity. In some cases, maybe it improves the kids' mental well-being - I don't know. I still consider it offensive and demeaning. These kids probably have local religions which are just as valid as Christianity, and to suggest otherwise is unabashedly ethnocentric.

Most importantly, other than the Christian thing, I think what they do is absolutely fantastic. I can't stress that enough. The religious aspect isn't reason enough to not support them and do nothing instead. I just would prefer secular options a thousand times over, and I believe the original poster feels the same.

[Neeper]

I do the shoe box thing every year. As a matter fact, it gives me great pleasure in knowing some kid, somewhere, is going to be ecstatic to open a box full of toys, candy or whatever is in there. I take my little niece to the Loonie store and I let her pick out stuff for the shoe boxes. It was a good experience for her the first year we did it, because I got to explain to her WHY we do this. As a little spoiled 5 year old, she had no idea there were kids who had no toys to play with or crayons to color with. I told her to imagine if she didn't have these things either. I feel it has helped her become more caring and giving towards others. Even at 7 years old (after being to Vietnam also), she now knows how to appreciates what she has.

Yes I can send a $10 check to a charity and it will pay for food and water. But why not, once a year, put together a little shoe box full of gifts for a needy child at Christmas time? Nothing make me happier than putting a smile on their face. Even if it's only 2 or 3 kids.

[Locke]

It seems to me that these 'evil religious missionaries' are the only people willing to do the good deed.

What does that say about the people who would condemn that good deed solely on the basis of those who perform it?

You'd rather say, screw the kids? You'd rather they get nothing as opposed to something given to them by a religious charity?

This seems monumentally wrong.

I've donated a shoebox to Operation Christmas Child since I was in grade 3. I'll continue, thanks.

Locke.

[troutman]

Originally Posted by Locke

It seems to me that these 'evil religious missionaries' are the only people willing to do the good deed.

What does that say about the people who would condemn that good deed solely on the basis of those who perform it?

You'd rather say, screw the kids? You'd rather they get nothing as opposed to something given to them by a religious charity?

This seems monumentally wrong.

I've donated a shoebox to Operation Christmas Child since I was in grade 3. I'll continue, thanks.

Locke.

Who is saying they should get nothing? How about giving the gifts - hold the religion?

There are plenty of non-religious and secular groups that give aid all over the world. Indoctrinating poor vulnerable children to any particular religion is seen as a form of child abuse by many (ex. Dawkins). I wouldn't go that far - I think children should be taught about all religions. Missionaries don't do that though.

A true gift has no catch attached to it.

[Hack&Lube]

The reason OCC works is because almost all of the work is done by volunteers and for free. It is a large program and takes a lot of manpower (people actually do have to open and inspect all the boxes) and logistics to handle.

I think that the people recieving these boxes have much bigger problems to worry about than maintaining a secular philosophy about life or contemplating such things as you and I. Face it, people always say that religion causes wars and hardship but they often forget that in western history, religion was most often the only source of charity, goodwill, and free medical services...not even to thirdworld countries but here at home.

Salvation Army? Young Men's Christian Association? Even a hundred years ago, most of the hospitals in many parts of the U.S. were staffed by unpaid religious workers like nuns with nursing training. You can say it was a product of the times and we're more "enlightened" now but if you subtract the religious charities from the world or simple goodwill and volunteer work from people who are religious, the poor of the world would be in much dire straits as a very large proportion of these groups have religious bases or even secular organizations have their donations from religious families and organizations.

When it comes down to poor kids with nothing, how about you give them something to enjoy and to own once a year rather than that $10 which will give him a few cups of enriched flour and water. Maybe even Flames kid from Africa got his jersey from OCC. You never know. Human pride takes a lot from our possessions and the gifts that we recieve. Be realistic, is there a comparable program? Is it better off that these kids recieve nothing and you deprive them just so that they are firewalled from things you personally don't agree with? Funny how that seems...selfish.

Samaritan's purse doesn't put any religious material in the boxes, and the boxes goto any child of any race, religion, or political background unconditionally. It's a program started by a bunch of people whose religious ideals made them want to help. The fact of the matter is that the program would not work without volunteers and it happens most of the volunteers are religiously affiliated which...you know, is what made them want to volunteer in the first place. The point of destination delivery of boxes is often done with other charity organizations and yes, with churches in the local area and yes I'm sure that some evangelical ideas are spread. If it bugs you so much, why don't you include a letter from yourself in the box explaining to the child why you gave the gifts and what your own beliefs are contrary to the organization delivering them.

Religious charities have one benefit - small overhead. That $10 doesn't become $1 after admininstration and bureaucracy. Volunteer work means a lot of it goes directly to the recipient and what you put in the box yourself can't get lost in the accounting books.