Man dies after being tasered in Vancouver Airport

Again, considering the obvious bias of a lot of people on this board I won't bother to address comments obviously meant to incite a certain reaction or those that are just general nonsense (Fotze and Lanny come to mind) but I will throw in my 2 cents.

None of us know the cause of death as of yet. What I think some are trying to say is that the taser was not the CAUSE of his death- meaning, he WASN'T tazed and then dropped dead. In fact, he was alive AFTER the 5 second (assuming it was only 5) ride. I am not saying the taser didn't contribute to his death, only that it was not the cause of his death. To say he would still be alive if he wasn't tased, is rather presumptuous IMO as , based on the article, the guy was displaying typical symptoms of excited delerium. There are several articles on the net that are worth reading regarding the condition. In fact, there are probably several sites that deny its existence. Either way, there is most likely other contributing factors to this guys death.

[Flames in 07]

Originally Posted by Bent Wookie

Again, considering the obvious bias of a lot of people on this board I won't bother to address comments obviously meant to incite a certain reaction or those that are just general nonsense (Fotze and Lanny come to mind) but I will throw in my 2 cents.

None of us know the cause of death as of yet. What I think some are trying to say is that the taser was not the CAUSE of his death- meaning, he WASN'T tazed and then dropped dead. In fact, he was alive AFTER the 5 second (assuming it was only 5) ride. I am not saying the taser didn't contribute to his death, only that it was not the cause of his death. To say he would still be alive if he wasn't tased, is rather presumptuous IMO as , based on the article, the guy was displaying typical symptoms of excited delerium. There are several articles on the net that are worth reading regarding the condition. In fact, there are probably several sites that deny its existence. Either way, there is most likely other contributing factors to this guys death.

The most presumptuous thing in this entire thread is you concluding that the taser was not the cause of his death. How's about we let the autopsy results come out before we teach everyone the right answer here?

[MelBridgeman]

Originally Posted by RougeUnderoos

Let's see here.

1. Man tasered
2. Man dies

Do you think there is a connection?

"Sounds like drugs"? What does? A guy getting pissed off in the airport?

Sure there could be a connection, but you are also jumping to conclusions based on something you read in the media..smart...he was tasered because he was a threat to everyone there...considering some of the reports the guys was going nuts...

[MelBridgeman]

Originally Posted by Lanny_MacDonald

People jump on the police because they are in the public eye and because they do some really stupid things at times, like tasing people for less than appropriate reasons.



No. Could have been he had been travelling all day and was worked up over his luggage being lost. Ever have your luggage lost on a flight? Ever think about the poor s from another country who don't know the language and know they have nothing else in the country but that luggage? Think that may have got him just a little worked up and was the cause for him sweating profusely? No, he had to have been on something.



No. The article says he was under control, but still yelling, probably because he couldn't understand the language being spoken to him, and because his luggage had been lost. No, I'm sure you would go to another country, deal with people that you couldn't understand, know everything that you had in the country was gone, and that you would just be right as rain and net be frustrated in any way. Especially at 1:30 in the morning. Nope, the guy was on something.



Again, you go to a foreign country after traveling all day, have your luggage lost, get no answers from anyone because you can't speak the language, and see how rational you are. No, you'll be mister rational and not say a word to anyone crossly. This guy had to have been on drugs.



You should lose your luggage sometime, or be around people who have had their luggage lost, and see how rational people can be. It's not pretty. The longer they have to wait, the worse it gets. If this guy was there for an extended amount of time, it wouldn't surprise me. That's a very stressful situation to be in.

yes lets think of all the excuses in the world champ - you werent there either..and we also shouldnt conclude based media reports...lanny intelligence wasted!

[Flames_Gimp]

Lanny knows more about police procedure than the cops themselves

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally Posted by MelBridgeman

Sure there could be a connection, but you are also jumping to conclusions based on something you read in the media..smart...he was tasered because he was a threat to everyone there...considering some of the reports the guys was going nuts...

Ha ha. Yeah, "smart" indeed. How do you know he was a threat to everyone there? Sounds to me like you are jumping to conclusions based on, umm, something you read in the media.. smart.

I'm not jumping to any conclusions. The guy got tasered, now he's dead. There "could" be a connection? What else "could" it have been? Maybe he's allergic to electricity?

Whether or not the guy got what was coming to him is beside the point. He got tasered, he died. You can sugarcoat it all you want, that's what happened. Saying there "could" be a connection is like saying there "could" be a connection between puddles on the ground and last night's rain.

[icarus]

Originally Posted by oilers_fan

It's lose-lose for cops these days.

How so? And how are these days any different from the days of yore?

[Dan02]

Yeah its all the police fault.... this is getting old....

This man was acting erractically, it was HIS fault he got tasered, we can debate without any first hand knowledge of the situation whether he should have got tasered or not, but the fact of the matter is his actions and his actions alone resulted in him getting tasered.

I am getting sick and tired of the, everyone can do no wrong act and its always police abusing their power. People need to start taking responsibility for their own actions, anyone who doesn't realize this needs to pull their head out of the sand.

Originally Posted by Flames in 07

The most presumptuous thing in this entire thread is you concluding that the taser was not the cause of his death. How's about we let the autopsy results come out before we teach everyone the right answer here?

Actually, I am not to sure you clearly understand my meaning here... no need to get your panties in a knot. Fact is, the taser was not his cause of death but could have contributed to it. In other words, it probably wasn't a healthy (mind and body), normal fellas walking down the street then <BAMMO>, takes a taser and drops dead.

I think when I, and others, state there 'could' be a connection, they are saying so b/c we have very little info on what or how things happened? Meaning, he could have been suffering some catastrophic medical condition before the tasering took place and was going down well before he actually got zapped.

What's wrong with fotze? Generally, I find his posts regarding police rather funny, but I honestly can't understand his posts. Can someone translate please?

[Lanny_MacDonald]

Originally Posted by MelBridgeman

yes lets think of all the excuses in the world champ - you werent there either..and we also shouldnt conclude based media reports...lanny intelligence wasted!

Now what is most likely? A guy has just come off an international flight, likely a multi-hour flight, and is missing his luggage. What is most likely? He was doing drugs on an international flight (where people would easily have observed him and likely would have reported him (who is going to take a chance of being snagged at immigration for not reporting this?), he was not noticed by the flight attendants as being stoned, and the guy snuck through immigration, who would be looking for people acting suspiciously or showing indications of sickness or on drugs), or is it more likely that he got really pissed when he found out his luggage was MIA and over-reacted? You're right. We should immediately jump to the conclusion that guy was strung out on drugs. No use in thinking what was the most likely possible problem, we should immediately jump to the belief that the guy was stoned, even though there was no mention of such potential in the article.

[jolinar of malkshor]

Originally Posted by Lanny_MacDonald

People jump on the police because they are in the public eye and because they do some really stupid things at times, like tasing people for less than appropriate reasons.

The man, a Caucasian in his 40s, was yelling, sweating profusely, throwing chairs and pounding on windows, according to police.

At one point the man grabbed a computer from a desk and threw it down.

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNew...014?hub=Canada

Yup, tasered for no reason.

No. Could have been he had been travelling all day and was worked up over his luggage being lost. Ever have your luggage lost on a flight? Ever think about the poor s from another country who don't know the language and know they have nothing else in the country but that luggage? Think that may have got him just a little worked up and was the cause for him sweating profusely? No, he had to have been on something.

Yes, the airline has lost my luggage, luggage of my family and friends and other people that i have seen on flights many times. Not once did I or anyone else: Throw chairs, computers or pound on windows in a delusional state.

No. The article says he was under control, but still yelling, probably because he couldn't understand the language being spoken to him, and because his luggage had been lost. No, I'm sure you would go to another country, deal with people that you couldn't understand, know everything that you had in the country was gone, and that you would just be right as rain and net be frustrated in any way. Especially at 1:30 in the morning. Nope, the guy was on something.

No he wasn't :
The man was struck by the weapon's two probes and fell to the ground, but was still combative, said Lemaitre.
The three officers then attempted to restrain the man, who continued fighting with police, even after they managed to handcuff him.

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNew...014?hub=Canada

Again, the airline did lose my luggage and I did not act like that guy.

Again, you go to a foreign country after traveling all day, have your luggage lost, get no answers from anyone because you can't speak the language, and see how rational you are. No, you'll be mister rational and not say a word to anyone crossly. This guy had to have been on drugs.

Give it up Lanny, the airlines lose luggage ALL the time to EVERYONE. Almost all these people do not act the way this guy did.

You should lose your luggage sometime, or be around people who have had their luggage lost, and see how rational people can be. It's not pretty. The longer they have to wait, the worse it gets. If this guy was there for an extended amount of time, it wouldn't surprise me. That's a very stressful situation to be in.

And again. So what you are saying is that if the airline misplaces my luggage I guess that it is ok for me to act like a lunitic, throw chairs and computeres, yell and scream and scare everyone in the airport and the police should just let me be because the airline lost my luggage.

[metallicat]

Originally Posted by icarus

How so? And how are these days any different from the days of yore?

Fair enough. It's lose-lose for cops, now and always has been. It's just nowadays, everyone has a camera on the phone, or a video camera on their phone, and anything that looks remotely like police brutality is being displayed on the internet, and message board goers are immediately proclaiming that the police are the bad guys. I'm not referring to you, just a general statement.

They either let some deranged lunatic run around like a chicken with its head cut off, or they subdue him and look like criminals.

[flip]

maybe he was all like "don't tase me bro."

then he deserved it.

[jolinar of malkshor]

Originally Posted by RougeUnderoos

Ha ha. Yeah, "smart" indeed. How do you know he was a threat to everyone there? Sounds to me like you are jumping to conclusions based on, umm, something you read in the media.. smart.

What is it with you people? I can only image what you would be saying if you, your wife and kids where there and this guy was freaking out like he was. Your kids would be sacred probably crying, you would be worried for both them and your wife hoping the guy doesn't attack them or pull out a weapon. Or I guess not.....I guess he isn't a threat. You would stand there with your wife and kids and get pissed off at the police for trying to get this guy under control. Ok then.

I'm not jumping to any conclusions. The guy got tasered, now he's dead. There "could" be a connection? What else "could" it have been? Maybe he's allergic to electricity?

Maybe he was cranked up on coke? Ever thought of that? Lets see, symptoms of cocaine use and overdose:
physiological arousal, including increased body temperature and heart rate
enlarged pupils
exhilaration
anxiety
increased breathing rate
increased talkativeness or quiet contemplation and rapture
feelings of great physical strength and mental capacity
anxiety, agitation and panic
paranoia
upredictable violent/aggressive behaviour
indifference to pain and localised pain relief.

High quantities and frequent, heavy and long-term use of cocaine can lead to a "cocaine psychosis", which is characterised by paranoid delusions, hallucinations, bizarre, aggressive or violent behaviour.

Sounds familiar.

Whether or not the guy got what was coming to him is beside the point. He got tasered, he died. You can sugarcoat it all you want, that's what happened. Saying there "could" be a connection is like saying there "could" be a connection between puddles on the ground and last night's rain.

The guy didn't deserve to die, it was unfortunate but he made a choice to act the way he did and the police used an authorized tool to try and gain control. It was an accident either way.

[Lanny_MacDonald]

Originally Posted by Bent Wookie

Meaning, he could have been suffering some catastrophic medical condition before the tasering took place and was going down well before he actually got zapped.

That is a possibility. Sweating profusely is usually a symptom of a heart attack, so that is indeed a possibility. Sweating is also a result of stress and over-exertion, which could also have been a result of being worked up over his luggage. The man could have been to the point of being over-stressed (on the verge of having a heart attack) from the events he was going through, and the taser pushed him over the edge and sent him into full blown cardiac arrest. I think this is a very likely scenario.

You'll notice that I haven't condemned the officers for their actions. I'm still waiting to hear a little more about the details of what went down before criticizing their actions or training, which may or may not have resulted in anything. I did mention the obvious fact that the taser was used, the guy died, and without that the guy is likely alive today. What I do take offense to is the extreme leap in logic that the guy was on drugs and that this was the reason for his death. The guy being a drug user is pretty unlikely, given the circumstances. The guy having an unknown heart condition that was triggered as he was tased is more likely.

[icarus]

Originally Posted by oilers_fan

Fair enough. It's lose-lose for cops, now and always has been. It's just nowadays, everyone has a camera on the phone, or a video camera on their phone, and anything that looks remotely like police brutality is being displayed on the internet, and message board goers are immediately proclaiming that the police are the bad guys. I'm not referring to you, just a general statement.

They either let some deranged lunatic run around like a chicken with its head cut off, or they subdue him and look like criminals.

There are also message board goers who immediately claim that the police are not the bad guys.

It is too early to defend or crucify them because we weren't there, so we don't know if they followed proper police protocol for whatever the actual situation they faced was. Some people sure are certain that they did follow the proper protocol, and maybe some are certain they didn't, yet we have all read the same article in which it seems to me there is not enough information to reach either conclusion.

What I do know is that the Vancouver police has been under a lot of scrutiny lately for civilian deaths (four in August alone--including the man who was shot multiple times by police on Granville St), and here is another one. Freak accident, or breach of protocol indicating a bigger problem?

Jolinar, don't waste your time on responding to Lanny's laughable posts. To say that this guy was simply reacting normally to a stressful situation is rather laughable (right about now, Lanny is typing, 'Where did I say he was acting 'normal').

The reason many bring up drug use is b/c this guys symptoms sound alot like cocaine toxicity. Generally characterized by: violent behavior, aggression, hyperactivity, hallucinations, paranoia, great strength, high pain tolerance, and sweating/overheating.

[jolinar of malkshor]

Originally Posted by Lanny_MacDonald

Now what is most likely? A guy has just come off an international flight, likely a multi-hour flight, and is missing his luggage. What is most likely? He was doing drugs on an international flight (where people would easily have observed him and likely would have reported him (who is going to take a chance of being snagged at immigration for not reporting this?), he was not noticed by the flight attendants as being stoned, and the guy snuck through immigration, who would be looking for people acting suspiciously or showing indications of sickness or on drugs), or is it more likely that he got really pissed when he found out his luggage was MIA and over-reacted? You're right. We should immediately jump to the conclusion that guy was strung out on drugs. No use in thinking what was the most likely possible problem, we should immediately jump to the belief that the guy was stoned, even though there was no mention of such potential in the article.

OMG Lanny. No body has just jump to the conclusion that he was on drugs. The board is set and the pieces are there to indicate that he may have been on drugs, doesn't mean he was on drugs but the displayed behaviours suggest otherwise. It's not as if he was just yelling at the airline person and thats it. Why do you always back the criminal?

[Lanny_MacDonald]

Originally Posted by jolinar of malkshor

Give it up Lanny, the airlines lose luggage ALL the time to EVERYONE. Almost all these people do not act the way this guy did.

And again. So what you are saying is that if the airline misplaces my luggage I guess that it is ok for me to act like a lunitic, throw chairs and computeres, yell and scream and scare everyone in the airport and the police should just let me be because the airline lost my luggage.

I'm not saying it was acceptable or it was the norm. What I was saying was that your "logic" that the guy was obviously on drugs was flawed, and gave several reasons why he may have been worked up to the point he started acting irrationally. No where did I say that what the guy was right, all I did was defend the position of him being on drugs, which makes little sense.

Lanny, the logic is NOT flawed. Drug toxicity is very real. Normal people do not act the way this guy was acting. Is it really such a jump to think, based on the articles and observations by others, that this guys behavior was so out of whack with the norm, that there COULD have been something else on board?