Vipers bolt the Northern League - Calgarypuck Forums - The Unofficial Calgary Flames Fan Community

Resolute 14 · 10-12-2007, 11:27 PM

http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/bre...-4661479c.html

Once the pre-eminent indy league, the Northern League has been nothing but a clusterpuck for the last four years, and took the Alberta clubs down with it. The Calgary market especially was terminally screwed by the NL's complete lack of planning and background checking, and the pitched battle that existed between Alberta and the rest of the NL finally came to a head this week.

As a result, the two clubs are likely to join the Golden Baseball League, which is based in the SW US.

ricoFlame · 10-13-2007, 09:22 AM

interesting story. curious to see how this might pan out.

worth · 10-13-2007, 12:06 PM

I also read that they will save a ton in travel costs by traveling to California rather than to Illinois and Kansas etc.

Flames in 07 · 10-13-2007, 12:09 PM

All they have done is applied for entry to their league. I suppose that means they could be a team without a league next year???

Juventus3 · 10-13-2007, 12:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flames in 07

All they have done is applied for entry to their league. I suppose that means they could be a team without a league next year???

Seeing how competitive they were this year, I think they're in a good spot to apply for other leagues.

Juventus3 · 10-13-2007, 01:05 PM

Story from the Vipers site:

http://www.calgaryvipers.com/press/top_story.html

It sounds promising as the league is hoping to also expand into BC and Sask. Better travel schedules and new (more teams) for us fans to see will also be nice.

worth · 10-13-2007, 01:45 PM

Edmonton Journal: Cracker-Cats truly independent
Edmonton Sun: 'Golden' future for Cracker-Cats & Vipers
Edmonton Sun: NL commish dissappointed
Calgary Herald: Vipers, 'Cats have Golden opportunity
Calgary Sun: Vipers pull out of Northern League, eye joining California-based circuit
Fargo In-Forum: Northern League shrinks to six
Winnipeg Free-Press: Alberta clubs walk, NL to play with 6 teams in '08
Winnipeg Sun: Alberta officially out

http://nlfan.yuku.com/forums/79/t/League-wide-NoL-.html

Resolute 14 · 10-13-2007, 01:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Juventus3

Seeing how competitive they were this year, I think they're in a good spot to apply for other leagues.

Unfortunately, that won't matter. The only other leagues with a salary cap close to the Northern League are the American Association, and the Can-Am League, both of which are way too far east.

In all likelihood, the Vipers will be starting over, effectively as an expansion team next year.

edit: Actually, I stand corrected. Per the Herald article: t's expected that existing contracts on the Vipers -- Darryl Brinkley, Carlos Duncan and Nelson Castro have all indicated they'll return in 2008 -- will be grandfathered into the Golden League salary system..

Having those three back would give Calgary a huge leg up in the GBL.

CrusaderPi · 10-13-2007, 02:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snakeeye

http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/bre...-4661479c.html

Once the pre-eminent indy league, the Northern League has been nothing but a clusterpuck for the last four years, and took the Alberta clubs down with it. The Calgary market especially was terminally screwed by the NL's complete lack of planning and background checking, and the pitched battle that existed between Alberta and the rest of the NL finally came to a head this week.

As a result, the two clubs are likely to join the Golden Baseball League, which is based in the SW US.

I'd say the Alberta clubs (and X-Box) did more to bring down the Northern League then the other way around.

Although granting a franchise to those Japanese business men did show a terrible lack of planning.

Flames in 07 · 10-13-2007, 03:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Juventus3

Seeing how competitive they were this year, I think they're in a good spot to apply for other leagues.

well regardless of how the Vipers did, I don't know how approval works, but if I'm the Reno owner, I don't know how excited I am about doubling my travel budget just to add 2 new teams.

Maybe they get in no problem, but Cgy and Edm are outposts compared to the rest of these teams.

Resolute 14 · 10-13-2007, 09:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CrusaderPi

I'd say the Alberta clubs (and X-Box) did more to bring down the Northern League then the other way around.

Although granting a franchise to those Japanese business men did show a terrible lack of planning.

Well, Alberta isn't why a 12 team league 30 months ago is a six team league today. The NorL compounded the error of giving the team to the Japanese owners by giving Peter Young the team afterward, over the far, far better choice in Russ Parker because Parker knew trying to build an organization from scratch in seven weeks was stupid.

The league itself has as much blame for the state of the Vipers franchise as Gidney and Young themselves do.

Flames in 07 · 10-13-2007, 10:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snakeeye

Well, Alberta isn't why a 12 team league 30 months ago is a six team league today. The NorL compounded the error of giving the team to the Japanese owners by giving Peter Young the team afterward, over the far, far better choice in Russ Parker because Parker knew trying to build an organization from scratch in seven weeks was stupid.

The league itself has as much blame for the state of the Vipers franchise as Gidney and Young themselves do.

ya good points. The Vipers should not exist in the form that they do today.

Are they going to be any better off in this western league? Still a ton of travel, still the same grouchy mgmt and still the same run down park.

Resolute 14 · 10-13-2007, 10:03 PM

True, but apparently the cost of flying to California is significantly lower than flying to Chicagoland, and attendance wise, the Vipers would be above the GBL average.

One of the stories I read had the GBL commisisoner discussing the possibility of expanding north, mentioning Victoria and Saskatoon, among other locales. If they are looking to create a North Division, above the Northwest League, then Alberta gives them a good anchor.

Flames in 07 · 10-13-2007, 10:07 PM

yea if they had a north division I get it, but 2 alberta teams serving as outposts doesn't make sense.

I guess they use AB teams as an inroad to develop that division.

CrusaderPi · 10-13-2007, 10:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snakeeye

Well, Alberta isn't why a 12 team league 30 months ago is a six team league today. The NorL compounded the error of giving the team to the Japanese owners by giving Peter Young the team afterward, over the far, far better choice in Russ Parker because Parker knew trying to build an organization from scratch in seven weeks was stupid.

The league itself has as much blame for the state of the Vipers franchise as Gidney and Young themselves do.

One of the stated reasons the 4 teams left to found the AA was they had issues over the Alberta expansion. But you're right when you say the NorL has no one but themselves to blame over allowing Gidney, Young, and Orlich into the league.

Resolute 14 · 10-14-2007, 09:52 AM

Yeah, and those same hypocritical franchises had no problems with agreeing to the expansion to Alberta, and to taking the expansion moneys.

The NorL/AA split was rooted at a time far before Alberta came on board. It had a lot more to do with differences in how the league itself was to be run - especially in how it relates with other indy leagues, than Alberta itself did. We just became a convienent add-on excuse.

Resolute 14 · 10-22-2007, 02:26 PM

Expect an announcement tomorrow that Calgary and Edmonton are officially joining the Golden League.

http://www.canada.com/calgaryherald/...6-44b8ea0a6a32

Interestingly, an expansion team for Kamloops is also being considered. I would think they would need a fourth team for this to make sense though. Saskatoon has been speculated, since they had a great crowd for a Calgary-Edmonton exhibition game this spring.

worth · 10-22-2007, 02:45 PM

So I wonder how other GLB teams feel about this move?

Resolute 14 · 10-22-2007, 02:57 PM

Well, they would have to support it, I would suppose, or it wouldn't happen.

The GBL does have expansion plans, as six teams do not a good league make, but are pretty much boxed in by the NWL, PCL, Texas League, Arizona Fall League, and various college loops. They had to jump one of these leagues, and two established franchises makes as much sense as anything else.

phiten · 10-22-2007, 04:11 PM

I personally can't see how a league like this can be successful, the market for baseball in this area is massive...All levels of affiliated minor league ball, 5 MLB teams, and numerous D-1 college teams, just baffles me how teams like this can draw crowds ! anyways it is great to see pro baseball in Calgary, however we should make a pitch for a NWL team, we could support it.