Help with my Ethics Assignment..

[madisonbtb]

Originally Posted by Azure

I apologize then.

I didn't realize in what context you were asking the question.

no harm no foul. you don't know me as a poster or a person so i could see how the question might have been out of left field. you couldn't have known, so there is no need to apologize. it is just interesting to read everyone's experience here as children/young adults/adults and religion and the progression of thought. i was trying to get a better reference point as to all your comments. my father was actually in the seminary when he met my mom and i have two aunts that are nuns. i was raised with the catholic religion shoved down my throat. i don't have as many issues with the religion as much as the church. (yes, i seperate the two). funny thing is i actually run the rectory and do the accounting for a catholic church and catholic elementary school.

[photon]

Originally Posted by Dion

I remember reading about stuff like that years ago. IIRC we were all going to get micro chips implanted under our skin as a means of tracking. Those that did, well.....

RFID chips! I know people that say that exact thing.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by photon

RFID chips! I know people that say that exact thing.

IIRC, there is a country in Europe somewhere that has started using those chips. I can't remember the exact reasoning, but I do remember at the time when I heard about it....it made sense.

Some people had a field day with that one though.

Ugh!

[madisonbtb]

Many of these things aren't relegated to just the teaching of religion -- unfortunately. I've been worried about some of the stuff just taught in history class. The selective information that is now in these textbooks is close to frightening. I've had to have numerous talks with my son about what he is being taught regarding Russia. He has come home from school on more than one occassion very upset about how "Russia is bad", "Russians can't be trusted". Try explaining what was going on in the world at that time to a 13 year old boy that doesn't have a real grasp of the English language.

[madisonbtb]

Originally Posted by Azure

IIRC, there is a country in Europe somewhere that has started using those chips. I can't remember the exact reasoning, but I do remember at the time when I heard about it....it made sense.

Some people had a field day with that one though.

Ugh!

they are actually proposig that very thing for alzheimers patients now. so that if they wander off, the families are able to use a gps tracking system to locate them.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by madisonbtb

they are actually proposig that very thing for alzheimers patients now. so that if they wander off, the families are able to use a gps tracking system to locate them.

Or for medical patients in general....so they know if you have allergies, etc, etc....just by scanning you.

Makes sense too....to do that.

[madisonbtb]

Originally Posted by Azure

Or for medical patients in general....so they know if you have allergies, etc, etc....just by scanning you.

Makes sense too....to do that.

scary how many things that sound utterly ridiculous can somehow be rationalized to gain support. in both these instances i could see the merits in why it should be done but if someone would have said we will have computer chips implanted in everyone 20 years ago, i would think that they watched logan's run a few too many times.

[Dion]

Originally Posted by photon

RFID chips! I know people that say that exact thing.

I did some digging and found this

The final solution will be to have the microchip simply placed inside the human body as they do now with microchip pet identification systems.
INFOPET is one of several companies that provide a syringe gun implantable bio-chip that is injected under the skin of an animal. The chip can be read by a scanner and the code identifying the owner and pet will bring up a file on a computer. The system boasts that it can track over 1 billion pets by satellites and cellular towers. MOTOROLA, who produce the microchips for the MONDEX SMARTCARD, has developed several human implantable bio-chips.The BT952000 chip was engineered by Dr.Carl Sanders who was directed in 17 NEW WORLD ORDER meetings to develop the device for global use in humans for economic and identification purposes.

The bio-chip measures 7mm long and .75mm in width, about the size of a grain of rice. It contains a transponder and a rechargeable lithium battery. The battery is charged by a thermo-couple circuit that produces voltage from fluctuations in body temperature. They spent over 1.5 million dollars studying where to place the chip in the human body.

They found only two suitable and efficient places -the FOREHEAD just under the hairline, and the back of the hand, specifically the RIGHT HAND.

"And he causes all, the small and the great, and the rich and the poor, and the free men and the slaves, to be given mark in their right hand, or in their forehead, and he provides that no one should be able to buy or sell, except the one who has the mark, either the name of the beast, or the number of his name." (Revelation 13:16_)

http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/P...feticword.html

[Dion]

Originally Posted by madisonbtb

scary how many things that sound utterly ridiculous can somehow be rationalized to gain support. in both these instances i could see the merits in why it should be done but if someone would have said we will have computer chips implanted in everyone 20 years ago, i would think that they watched logan's run a few too many times.

###. Come to think of I watched Logans Run last night. Great movie for it's time.

[madisonbtb]

Originally Posted by Dion

I did some digging and found this

The final solution will be to have the microchip simply placed inside the human body as they do now with microchip pet identification systems.
INFOPET is one of several companies that provide a syringe gun implantable bio-chip that is injected under the skin of an animal. The chip can be read by a scanner and the code identifying the owner and pet will bring up a file on a computer. The system boasts that it can track over 1 billion pets by satellites and cellular towers. MOTOROLA, who produce the microchips for the MONDEX SMARTCARD, has developed several human implantable bio-chips.The BT952000 chip was engineered by Dr.Carl Sanders who was directed in 17 NEW WORLD ORDER meetings to develop the device for global use in humans for economic and identification purposes.

The bio-chip measures 7mm long and .75mm in width, about the size of a grain of rice. It contains a transponder and a rechargeable lithium battery. The battery is charged by a thermo-couple circuit that produces voltage from fluctuations in body temperature. They spent over 1.5 million dollars studying where to place the chip in the human body.

They found only two suitable and efficient places -the FOREHEAD just under the hairline, and the back of the hand, specifically the RIGHT HAND.

"And he causes all, the small and the great, and the rich and the poor, and the free men and the slaves, to be given mark in their right hand, or in their forehead, and he provides that no one should be able to buy or sell, except the one who has the mark, either the name of the beast, or the number of his name." (Revelation 13:16_)

http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/P...feticword.html

yikes! well isn't that a pleasant thought as we enjoy the night. happy thanksgiving?

[Azure]

Awesome find Dion.

Amazing what people will come up with.

And just reading through the site. Wow...widespread use by 1998? Global police state?

Once again, no surprise...but they were wrong.

[Dion]

Originally Posted by Azure

Awesome find Dion.

Amazing what people will come up with.

There's always people looking for gloom and doom in Bible quotes. Considering I use a debit card for 95% of my transactions, I must be going to hell. Ohhh and btw, could you throw down a bucket of ice filled with beer from time to time. I hear it gets pretty hot down there

[madisonbtb]

Originally Posted by Dion

###. Come to think of I watched Logans Run last night. Great movie for it's time.

For its time? Heck for any time
I like that movie as well. I'm a sucker for retro movies. I still watch The Warriors (the original one, not the new version) on a pretty regular basis. Dune, Flash Gordon, Logan's Run, The Warriors, The Wanderers. Classics that never grow old. I guess I shouldn't term them as retro -- I was around watching these movies when they orginally came out. I know that dates me (I'm not sure what age bracket the majority of the people are here) but I would assume you have to be pretty close to my age.

[madisonbtb]

Originally Posted by Dion

There's always people looking for gloom and doom in Bible quotes. Considering I use a debit card for 95% of my transactions, I must be going to hell. Ohhh and btw, could you throw down a bucket of ice filled with beer from time to time. I hear it gets pretty hot down there

oh well...it looks like we will all be in good company. no use wasting an eternity. may as well make the most of it. i wonder what kind of sports programming we get down there.

[Dion]

Originally Posted by madisonbtb

oh well...it looks like we will all be in good company. no use wasting an eternity. may as well make the most of it. i wonder what kind of sports programming we get down there.

You know what they say? We'll be some damn busy shaking hands with friends to know where we are

[Vulcan]

I'm not christian or even religious but I don't like these implanted chips. They're an invasion of privacy and can lead to a lose of freedom.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Azure

I do not know when L.E. Maxwell was there, so I have no idea during which years your father attended.

Any sort of time-frame you can help me with? My Grandfather is also an alumnist from PBI, although I am unsure of the specific years he was there.

I think my dad was a member of the Class of '64; not certain about that, though.

Originally Posted by photon

I was totally programmed to think it was all true. Every time I heard about earthquakes on the news, it was fulfillment of prophecy that the earth was groaning for the end times. War on the news? Fulfillment of prophecy of wars and rumours of wars.

I can still quite vividly remember when our church received a visit from sensationalist Christian apologist Dave Hunt. I attended a very large Baptist Church in Calgary, and there was probably close to 1200 people in attendence that evening. Hunt spoke about the horribly dangerous "New Age Movement" and the "Whore of Babylon"—that's "The Roman Catholic Church" to all you pagans—and how these things factored into his understanding of the "Last Days". He had just recently written a novel entitled The Archon Conspiracy—it has since been re-titled The Mind Invaders—in which the world was "invaded" by aliens, who were really demonic spirits just pretending to be aliens. Scientists of the world united under the guidance of the Catholic Church and the most popular New Age teachers (makes sense!) in an effort to usher in a new era of peace and prosperity with the aid of these benevolent extra-terrestrials. Fast-forward a few years and I find myself in Auckland, NZ, listening to the same man spew forth nonsense about how the human imagination is a "tool of Satan". 2 Cor 10:4 says in the King James that the "weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds; Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ." Brilliant Mr. Hunt evidently believes in the divine inspiration of 16th century English, and has built his argument against "imagination" upon this single pericope. His solution? I can't recall, but based upon a very literal interpretation of the verses in question, I have to imagine that he would be perfectly happy to see all of us refrain from thinking.

Originally Posted by photon

What started to change my viewpoint I think was just finally growing up and taking a critical look at what I believed and why I believed it. Was there another way to interpret the scripure being used to support whatever doomsday stuff was being thrown out? Stuff like how did the Bible come into being...

In 1988 the North American Baptist Conference held their tri-annual meeting in Calgary. I was one of roughly 2000 high school and college students who stayed at the University of Calgary residences for a full week that July, and attended daily seminars with a popular youth speaker from the Master's College and Seminary (This is John MacArthur's school of indoctrination. Believe it or not, all of the graduate students are still all the same sex!). Dewey Bertolini spoke persuasively in our first meeting of the veracity of the Bible, and how its perfect infallibility and inerrency played a part in his own conversion. One of his arguments to this end, I will never forget. He spoke of how the Bible must correspond to archeological discoveries for it to remain the standard of faith; or, more appropriately, how archaeological findings must correspond to Scripture to maintain their own credibility. He used the example of the discoveries in the 1920's of the Anatolan "Hittite" Empire in Turkey, and hastily concluded (as many evangelicals are fond of doing) that this group of people was the same as the previously unknown "Hittites" from the Old Testament. The one statement of his that struck me was something to the effect of this: that prior to this discovery, the Bible could legitimately be tossed as a reliable book, becauseit spoke of Hittites. However, now that we know of the vast expanse of the Anatolan Hittite Empire and their influence—never mind the fact that they are completely unrelated to any known people group from the region of Palestine—this somehow "proves" that the Bible must be literally true. Is it any wonder that I begand to ask many of the same questions you undoubtedly did?

[photon]

Oh yeah I forgot about that aliens = demons thing.. I remember one speaker predicting that within a few years a flying saucer would land on the lawn of the White House and aliens would walk out and make peace. Of course no one calls these guys on this stuff (when Biblically a false prophet is supposed to be put to death).

And yeah, anti-catholicism and pro-Israel was driven into me, to the point where I still can't read any news about the middle east without trying to defend Israel in a they-can-do-no-wrong way.

When I started to find out about all the different sects of Christianity there were in the times before the Bible was canonized, and how even for that there's 5000 different manuscripts that contain fragments of early writings and how not a single one of those 5000 agree with each other, well that leads me to change the whole foundation of things.

For me the whole creation vs. evolution thing was a huge factor as well.

[Lanny_MacDonald]

Interesting side road in this thread. Just goes to show how important indoctrination is to our beliefs and can be easily used as a control mechanism. Because we were "brought up" a certain way, we are more inclined to react to certain issues and fall back to given positions without really questioning the logic behind those reactions.

[madisonbtb]

Originally Posted by photon

Oh yeah I forgot about that aliens = demons thing.. I remember one speaker predicting that within a few years a flying saucer would land on the lawn of the White House and aliens would walk out and make peace. Of course no one calls these guys on this stuff (when Biblically a false prophet is supposed to be put to death).

And yeah, anti-catholicism and pro-Israel was driven into me, to the point where I still can't read any news about the middle east without trying to defend Israel in a they-can-do-no-wrong way.

When I started to find out about all the different sects of Christianity there were in the times before the Bible was canonized, and how even for that there's 5000 different manuscripts that contain fragments of early writings and how not a single one of those 5000 agree with each other, well that leads me to change the whole foundation of things.

For me the whole creation vs. evolution thing was a huge factor as well.

don't scientologist believe in some alien-ufo thing?

i may be the odd one out here, but honestly, i see the bible as a book with stories in it -- nothing more than stories. a work of fiction based maybe loosely on some real life events. i don't take it literally. just stories and guidelines to set people on the right path. that is why yesterday i mentioned that i don't have a problem with the religion as much as the church. i think if you are nice and try to do things to help, then you are on the right track. as i mentioned, i actually work for a catholic church and i can't tell you how many of these little old ladies come to church every day of their lives but once they step out the door, they are horrible, bitter, vindictive gossip mongers that will almost hit you as they are leaving the parking lot. That is so hypocritical to me. I would rather try to be a good person and give back when i can. i get more out of sitting on my deck on a sunday morning appreciating the nature and being thankfull. then to go to church to get a gold star and a check mark and be awful the rest of the time. i'm not sure if people will be able to understand this, but that is part of why i helped andrei and his family (despite what some people would assume is being a puckbunny). when we were trying to get our son out of russia, there were so many people that helped make that happen. they took care of us so we could have our son. they did everything for us. it was something i needed to do for me, for them, for my son. to pay if forward, or right kharma, or whatever you want to call it. if that at all makes sense.