Harper announces $64 million to fight drug dealers, help users - Calgarypuck Forums - The Unofficial Calgary Flames Fan Community

Thunderstruck · 10-05-2007, 09:36 AM

Prime Minister Stephen is promising to put more drug dealers behind bars
and help users kick the habit as part of a $64 million strategy.

The Conservative government will introduce a new legislation this fall on this .

http://www.cbc.ca/cp/national/071004/n1004126A.html

FanIn80 · 10-05-2007, 09:46 AM

Ahhh... Isn't it nice to finally see a headline about a PM and not have to worry about what (s)he's done to embarrass us this time?

Aside from that, I am in support of this funding - on all accounts.

CaptainCrunch · 10-05-2007, 10:00 AM

I think its a good plan, we can all talk about the legalization of grass, but until the dealer network is somewhat stiffled its a moot point.

The Bulrock of legalizing dope is that its an industry that would have to be controlled and taxed and there has to be a preventative element to it. Just like cigarettes it should be illegal for anyone under 18 to use it or purchase it.

I'm all for the treatment element for the addicted user, especially on the harder stuff, but at the same time I think its important for the people that make a living off of the back of unfortunates to serve a harsh penalty.

64 million isn't bad, to me its a start, but I think that we have a on average larger drug problem in Canada because we've run with a fairly permissive environment when it comes to soft and hard drugs.

I think in the long run the costs are going to balloon before they shrink down.

llama64 · 10-05-2007, 10:31 AM

As long as the plan comes down HARD on the producers and distributors, I'm all for it.

If it only targets users and locks them up for ridiculously long times, it fails.

Jail time for producers, treatment for users is the best approach, and I think the academics have been repeating this message for a very long time. Seems like someone in Ottawa finally paid attention.

Azure · 10-05-2007, 10:46 AM

I'm all for helping users kick the habit....once addicted...people need help.

Drug dealers...especially guys who deal meth and the like....should get life in prison withOUT the chance of parole.

Devils'Advocate · 10-05-2007, 10:49 AM

The "War on Drugs" will win this time. For sure. Absolutely. I have no doubt.

So the majority of the money is going to Nancy Reagan's "Just Say No" campaign?

-=-=-=-=-=-=-

I have no problem with putting public money into combating drug use. Just without hard specifics, it may well be throwing good money after bad.

Devils'Advocate · 10-05-2007, 10:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Azure

Drug dealers...especially guys who deal meth and the like....should get life in prison withOUT the chance of parole.

Mmm.... the law and order crowd that would like 10% of the nations GDP to go towards building prisons.

The low level street dealers are usually there because it's the only way they can make a buck. The untouchables at the top of the food chain just laugh when we concentrate on putting the peons away. There are hundreds of peons out there looking for a chance to grab a street corner.

Azure · 10-05-2007, 11:00 AM

Its the only way they can make a buck?

Are you kidding me?

anyone could walk into Burger King and have a job in 5 min.

CaptainCrunch · 10-05-2007, 11:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Devils'Advocate

Mmm.... the law and order crowd that would like 10% of the nations GDP to go towards building prisons.

The low level street dealers are usually there because it's the only way they can make a buck. The untouchables at the top of the food chain just laugh when we concentrate on putting the peons away. There are hundreds of peons out there looking for a chance to grab a street corner.

Wow, just wow, drug dealers, low level or high level, and especially the ones that sell the harder drugs like Crystal Meth, Heroin, X, make thier living by trying to addict people to and sentence them to a long lingering death in order to make a living. They don't care about product quality as long as they're selling quantity.

I don't care if they're selling an ounce or a pound or a ton, they're making a living off of human misery. Does the user have some responsibility, absolutely, but I don't think that people that have never used understand the lure of these drugs once your addicted. They destroy your health, your value to society, and your relationships and you just don't care. And there's reggie the drug dealer making a profit as you slowly die.

In order for a comprehensive anti-drug system to work, you have to make in hard on the people that are marketing the stuff, they're the true middle men, you can go after the supply as well, but as we've seen with the War on Drugs in the U.S., your never going to kill it, its too lucrative for them.

peter12 · 10-05-2007, 11:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Azure

Its the only way they can make a buck?

Are you kidding me?

anyone could walk into Burger King and have a job in 5 min.

Well, of course the economic incentives are identical. Make $80/day flipping burgers or $2000/day dealing for a couple of hours.

CaptainCrunch · 10-05-2007, 11:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by peter12

Well, of course the economic incentives are identical. Make $80/day flipping burgers or $2000/day dealing for a couple of hours.

While getting stabbed or shot at by a competitor, and taking the risk of arrest and incarceration.

Azure · 10-05-2007, 11:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by peter12

Well, of course the economic incentives are identical. Make $80/day flipping burgers or $2000/day dealing for a couple of hours.

And on one hand you're breaking the law...messing up your life, on the other hand you have the potential of putting yourself through school and starting a real life.

But hey, if all people are worried about is quick money, that is their prerogative.

peter12 · 10-05-2007, 11:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

While getting stabbed or shot at by a competitor, and taking the risk of arrest and incarceration.

Hey, I'm not condoning being a drug dealer at all. I'm just saying, for someone with few scruples, it's not a hard decision.

JohnnyFlame · 10-05-2007, 11:33 AM

I've always felt that the money spent on going after the drug dealers etc. is a waste. Drugs aren't the problem of a few down and out types --those are just the ones we see laying in the gutter somewhere or read of their overdose deaths etc. Fact is society condones drugs in either an out and out fashion or on the sly. It's commonly used and nobody bats an eye. Fart there are deals done everyday downtown in plain view and even when they are reported the police are too busy earning cash doing meaningless radar traps or having coffee to pursue it. One way of saying it's a low, low priorty for them.

We put up a bit of a stink when it comes to hard drugs but even then it's only half-hearted. Personally I don't think it ever changes till it becomes likes smoking. Dang near everybody now will admit it's idiotic. Clearly causes death and death to others as well. Even there is takes forever and a day to get rid of it because our society is so pathetically weak. Our politicians should stand up and say it's banned -- you don't like ---tough freakin luck . We as a society should back them all the way. Same way with drugs. No inbetween crap. We either believe drugs are harmful and should be no longer part of our society or we don't and rest assured that I see NO evidence whatsoever that people genuinely think drugs should be dealt with.

The truth is we just want the druggies dealt with -- If they would just do it in private and not be a pain in the arse to us with all the problems associated with it we wouldn't care less IMO.

Devils'Advocate · 10-05-2007, 02:07 PM

The more I read about this, the more I think it is anti-marijuana legislation. Yes, it is wrapped in "who-could-be-against-harsher-punishments-for-drug-dealers" rhetoric, but since it doesn't specify any type of drug, it looks like we could be in for a harsh crackdown on weed.

That should make George Bush and the Republicans happy.

CaptainCrunch · 10-05-2007, 02:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Devils'Advocate

The more I read about this, the more I think it is anti-marijuana legislation. Yes, it is wrapped in "who-could-be-against-harsher-punishments-for-drug-dealers" rhetoric, but since it doesn't specify any type of drug, it looks like we could be in for a harsh crackdown on weed.

That should make George Bush and the Republicans happy.

What does this legislation have to do with Bush and the Republicans. And its a blanket anti-drug policy so yes it effects dope(which is still illegal) but also targets harsher drugs. And its not wrapped in any rhetoric, its pretty clear that the primary target for punishment is the drug dealer while there is a strong element for treatment for the average adict.

llama64 · 10-05-2007, 02:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Azure

And on one hand you're breaking the law...messing up your life, on the other hand you have the potential of putting yourself through school and starting a real life.

But hey, if all people are worried about is quick money, that is their prerogative.

Just to be a jackass, define "real life".

Azure · 10-05-2007, 02:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by llama64

Just to be a jackass, define "real life".

one where you actually don't ruin people's lives in order to earn a quick buck?

one where you put in an honest's day work?

I know you're playing the devils advocate here, but seriously, do you think dealing drugs is actually getting the most from life?

Ozy_Flame · 10-05-2007, 03:00 PM

PERFECT story on the value of life. Or posessions, as some see fit.

http://www.breitbart.com/article.php...show_article=1

It just proves that some people will look to hurt others to get that one step ahead. Infact, I'm going through an insurance claim right now where some jackass is claiming a neck injury when I love-tapped him at 5 km/ hour. Now I know I'm at fault for rear-ending him in that fashion, but exploiting the situation is a whooolllle other story....

TheRedCrush · 10-05-2007, 03:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Azure

I'm all for helping users kick the habit....once addicted...people need help.

Drug dealers...especially guys who deal meth and the like....should get life in prison withOUT the chance of parole.

I agree people who are addicted need help. Probably the most help of any other category of people in society. the problem is you can't force someone help if they don't want it, and addicts don't want it, no matter how bad of shape they are in, they feel their in control and don't need help. And meth dealers should be locked away forever i agree.

The problem is in the laws. People who are addicted do need help, but since they are still granted free rights, they will choose the drug of choice in most cases.

Until they are taken away rights they won't help themselves to stay clean long enough to stand a chance against addiction. An addict who is not clean long enough would choose the drug over breathing air.

Its a terrible truth with no clear solution. As much as 64 mil seems like a good starting point, i don't see it solving the problem of drug abuse in Canada. I would rather them outline a solid gameplan on how to help people who won't admit they need help, they are not sound mentally to make their own decisions or live a normal life in society. A program needs to be developed where they are forced to stay clean under monitoring for longer than a month, realistically for a normal addict 2 to 3 years, with no rights or freedom to act under legistlation. Also, early prevention before more people become addicts needs to be priority and a plan further than "say no to drugs" needs to be developed, the message is diluted and although youngsters understand what is being said, none of them actually get how many effects a drug addiction carries. Stopping the dealers will simply put more dealers in jail and more people will be forced to deal, IMO not a real solution.

Just my 2 bits...