[PGT] Flames play only 10 minutes again, lose 3-1 to Jets

[Hot_Flatus]

Originally Posted by Igster

Classic Flames goaltending. Ramo was VERY good the entire game and then lets in a absolute brutal goal to lose the game. It's just not good enough.

Time to throw ortio into the mix and hope he can run with it.....as it stands now its looking like failing to address the situation in net may have been a huge mistake. You made it work last year but hoping that two average goalies can play over their heads again is probably a pipe dream.

[JohnnyB]

I think the biggest change around the team this year is the expectations of fans...

Last year every game was just a gift to enjoy, but this year people have expectations of winning and improvement.

I will try to continue to treat every game as a gift. They're still just a young and developing team and they're fun to watch.

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by JohnnyB

I think the biggest change around the team this year is the expectations of fans...

Last year every game was just a gift to enjoy, but this year people have expectations of winning and improvement.

That happens when you go from being a cap floor team to a cap team...

[blender]

Originally Posted by JohnnyB

I think the biggest change around the team this year is the expectations of fans...

Last year every game was just a gift to enjoy, but this year people have expectations of winning and improvement.

I will try to continue to treat every game as a gift. They're still just a young and developing team and they're fun to watch.

I think you have the right attitude for sure.

Nevertheless, we've all seen them play better hockey last year, so expectations are not totally out of line. The Flames that beat the Kings to secure a playoff spot last year would crush the Flames that played tonight.

I want to see a consistent effort and more than one line per game able to drive offense. Twenty-odd shots isn't good enough to win most nights.

They are capable; just need to put it together.

[Cambardi]

I know it's early in the season but what was the record for the flames 10 games in last season?

[blender]

I believe they were 12-6-2 after 20 last season if you want to value a good start to the season.

[N-E-B]

To put this into perspective, the Anaheim Ducks are 0-4. Does anyone think their season is over? No. We'll be fine, and what better team to kick off a winning streak against than the Oilers? It's WAY too early to be in panic mode.

The only thing I agree with is we MUST trade a goalie soon.

[JohnnyT]

Originally Posted by N-E-B

To put this into perspective, the Anaheim Ducks are 0-4. Does anyone think their season is over? No. We'll be fine, and what better team to kick off a winning streak against than the Oilers? It's WAY too early to be in panic mode.

The only thing I agree with is we MUST trade a goalie soon.

They've also only scored 1 goal. 0/5 on the power play tonight against the Avs too

[Caged Great]

I think the Flames need to allow more room for the young players to participate. Guys like Granlund need to draw in, but also have good line mates instead of being buried on the 4th line. Jooris is struggling because he was with Raymond and Bollig tonight. If you put Monahan with those two, he'd struggle as well.

Part of the reason why the Flames were successful was them throwing out guys like Jooris, Granlund etc in key situations like the power play (at least early in the season when they went on the run in November).

Also doesn't help that Bennett has been nearly invisible thus far.

[Cali Panthers Fan]

Originally Posted by dammage79

Mmm. The Flames issues rested in the offensive zone. Terrible passing, poor board work for he most part. I think the Flames were solid defensively in their own zone and covered up the turn overs very well. Their D play earned them a point tonight. Their offensive suckage cost them a point tonight. Ramo brainfarting cost them all the points tonight. Fair breakdown? I think so.

Pretty much exactly how I saw it. Well put.

You have to consider how good the Jets are offensively this year. I imagine they'll finish top 5 in scoring. They really generated a lot of pressure in the defensive zone and the Flames did a very good job limiting the actual chances to score. Ramo had a fantastic game until that last goal, which essentially wipes out anything good he did prior to that moment.

You simply cannot allow that goal in the NHL, EVER. I don't say that lightly. I'm rarely one to put all the blame on a goaltender. Fact is, Ramo has cost us 2 games so far. He has let in some really, really bad goals in his two starts so far. If I'm Hartley I don't let him see the ice for a couple weeks.

Being that neither Ramo nor Hiller has gotten the job done lately, Ortio deserves a chance. I see no reason to give either veteran the start against Edmonton, especially since Ortio has yet to see the ice this season.

Nice to see Backlund get a goal, and to have a couple other nice opportunities later, but there's just not enough consistent pressure in the offensive zone from any of the lines to gain any momentum.

Also, I thought Giordano had a very strong defensive game, but he's still a little out of sync. Hamilton was invisible. Russell and Wideman are getting stronger every game. Engelland is still pretty awful.

[Goodlad]

Before anyone gets too caught up on the 102 pt pace, let's remember that there were several teams in full-on tank mode trying to get McEichel last year. As a result there were an inordinate amount of freebie points for contending teams last year.

The season before it only took 91 pts to land a playoff berth. 55pts the season before that (a 94 pt pace), and 95 pts in '11/'12. In fact, since the '04 lockout only twice has 97 pts been required to make the playoffs in the West

[Street Pharmacist]

Not sure if anyone posted it already, but Darren Haynes tweeted that the Flames haven't won a regular season game where Johnny/Monahan didn't get a point since last November. Almost a calendar year. It's normal to rely on a top scoring line, but we do too much. Despite a weak goal from Ramo, allowing only 2 goals should be enough to win. The Flames have to find 5v5 secondary scoring and soon nevermind PP scoring. Seems to be what we have in Frolik but now the defensive scoring has dried up

[Lanny_McDonald]

Here is my observations from the first four games of the season. It may turn into a rant, so apologies if it does.

The Flames are missing that youthful enthusiasm that made the difference for them last season. I'm so sick and tired of seeing the same useless performance from some of the vets. They make as many, if not more mistakes that the young guys make.

Mason Raymond is the new Paul Byron, except Raymond doesn't play with the same urgency as Byron. He is such a poor fit on this team. His line mates get him the puck, but the play dies right there. He's soft on the forecheck and worse on the backcheck. Markus Granlund should be in before Raymond.

What does Brandon Bollig do for the Flames again? He's slow and doesn't use his body worth a damn. He isn't intimidating anyone out there and is always behind the play. He's supposed to be one the Flames wide bodies and provide some physicality out there, but he can't catch anyone to lay a body on them. Garnet Hathaway would be an improvement on Bollig.

Same things can be said for David Jones. He's another big body that just doesn't do anything with that size. You want to know why our cycle game sucks, its because these guys are too slow to get in on the defense and gain possession of the puck. The Flames need guys with speed. Another problem with Jones is he's supposed to finish, but he can't get to the areas to score quick enough. I would much rather see a guy that can at least get to the areas and not finish than watch another big guy that can't get there. Like, Mason Raymond is providing more than what Jones is right now. Ugh!

Dennis Wideman. Just typing that makes me want to punch someone in the face. The guy should have an orange helmet on so he more closely resembles the pylon he's looking like on our blueline. Someone should remind him that September is United Way month and he should stop with the ####ing giveaways! Yes, he has a big shot, but holy crap is he useless the other 98% of the game. Give me any one of three or four guys on the farm. They will at least play hard and hopefully learn from their mistakes.

Backlund and Jooris both need to get their crap together as well. They are not bringing what they need to. I can't believe these guys are this bad with the likes of Billy Arnold, Kenney Agostino, Emile Poirier and Morgan Klimchuk all knocking at the door.

I understand the need for veterans on the team, but man, if those vets stink up the joint like the our guys are doing right now, I see no reason to give them the benefit of the doubt. I'd much rather lose with a team than goes out and works its sack off than go out and lose with this bunch of pedestrians.

Yup, it turned into a rant. Sorry, its been a tough start to a season that held so much promise. Hartley has his work cutout for him.

[EldrickOnIce]

Originally Posted by New Era

Here is my observations from the first four games of the season. It may turn into a rant, so apologies if it does.

The Flames are missing that youthful enthusiasm that made the difference for them last season. I'm so sick and tired of seeing the same useless performance from some of the vets. They make as many, if not more mistakes that the young guys make.

Mason Raymond is the new Paul Byron, except Raymond doesn't play with the same urgency as Byron. He is such a poor fit on this team. His line mates get him the puck, but the play dies right there. He's soft on the forecheck and worse on the backcheck. Markus Granlund should be in before Raymond.

What does Brandon Bollig do for the Flames again? He's slow and doesn't use his body worth a damn. He isn't intimidating anyone out there and is always behind the play. He's supposed to be one the Flames wide bodies and provide some physicality out there, but he can't catch anyone to lay a body on them. Garnet Hathaway would be an improvement on Bollig.

Same things can be said for David Jones. He's another big body that just doesn't do anything with that size. You want to know why our cycle game sucks, its because these guys are too slow to get in on the defense and gain possession of the puck. The Flames need guys with speed. Another problem with Jones is he's supposed to finish, but he can't get to the areas to score quick enough. I would much rather see a guy that can at least get to the areas and not finish than watch another big guy that can't get there. Like, Mason Raymond is providing more than what Jones is right now. Ugh!

Dennis Wideman. Just typing that makes me want to punch someone in the face. The guy should have an orange helmet on so he more closely resembles the pylon he's looking like on our blueline. Someone should remind him that September is United Way month and he should stop with the ####ing giveaways! Yes, he has a big shot, but holy crap is he useless the other 98% of the game. Give me any one of three or four guys on the farm. They will at least play hard and hopefully learn from their mistakes.

Backlund and Jooris both need to get their crap together as well. They are not bringing what they need to. I can't believe these guys are this bad with the likes of Billy Arnold, Kenney Agostino, Emile Poirier and Morgan Klimchuk all knocking at the door.

I understand the need for veterans on the team, but man, if those vets stink up the joint like the our guys are doing right now, I see no reason to give them the benefit of the doubt. I'd much rather lose with a team than goes out and works its sack off than go out and lose with this bunch of pedestrians.

Yup, it turned into a rant. Sorry, its been a tough start to a season that held so much promise. Hartley has his work cutout for him.

Yes, and don't forget Gio has not been good. Monahan has not been good. Bennett has not been good. Etc.
As a team, they have been weak and disappointing.

[kkaleR]

Missing Brodie on D scoring. Gio getting better. Hamilton still somewhat finding his groove on pinching and passing, but overall I think that he has been okay. I don't know what some people were expecting from a still young defenseman. Kulak was steady again in third pairing, does nothing but right decisions there. Engelland can sure ice the puck and throw an odd hit. Nothing more, a possession black hole really. Really hoping that he's going to be in the press box while Kulak keeps playing when Brodie is back in business.

The the offense... Still on the learning curve. Now handling the part to meet the raised expectations. The 2nd line had a pretty good showing, but eg. Ferland and Jooris left me expecting more hustling and grinding. From Bollig I don't expect anything anymore. He was good in the playoffs, but not much else on ice. Here's hoping for that he would sit so that MaG (Granlund) could draw in.

Seemed like the ice was horribad in the 'peg. Players kept falling and puck kept bouncing from there and there. Even with JG, or was he just having a bad game? That would have been rare. Personally I think that the first half of the game was stellar away-playing for the Flames' part, but the penalties started to turn the momentum. Jets are some kinda big and fast western team, it's difficult to turn the tide against them in their barn. Still defending as a unit was good until the end, where Rämö decided to let in a stinker. Certainly wasn't a great defensive play from Wideman either. If he could be dealt for a blue chip -winger (the position we are most thin on top responsibilities), I would be all in for it. Even though the points he puts up and the fact that he's one of the players having great chemistry with Johnny. It would be great to get some value for him as long as he still has the groove. He won't probably be a Flame when this team is a real contender due to his age. And now we have some great offensive-minded D prospects looking for a future playing spot.

Now hoping Bob starts Ortio and he delivers a W (approved by Kipper) tonight.

[Samonadreau]

Originally Posted by Cali Flames Fan

Pretty much exactly how I saw it. Well put.

You have to consider how good the Jets are offensively this year. I imagine they'll finish top 5 in scoring. They really generated a lot of pressure in the defensive zone and the Flames did a very good job limiting the actual chances to score. Ramo had a fantastic game until that last goal, which essentially wipes out anything good he did prior to that moment.

You simply cannot allow that goal in the NHL, EVER. I don't say that lightly. I'm rarely one to put all the blame on a goaltender. Fact is, Ramo has cost us 2 games so far. He has let in some really, really bad goals in his two starts so far. If I'm Hartley I don't let him see the ice for a couple weeks.

Being that neither Ramo nor Hiller has gotten the job done lately, Ortio deserves a chance. I see no reason to give either veteran the start against Edmonton, especially since Ortio has yet to see the ice this season.

Nice to see Backlund get a goal, and to have a couple other nice opportunities later, but there's just not enough consistent pressure in the offensive zone from any of the lines to gain any momentum.

Also, I thought Giordano had a very strong defensive game, but he's still a little out of sync. Hamilton was invisible. Russell and Wideman are getting stronger every game. Engelland is still pretty awful.

Ramo didnt cost us the first game. 44 shots against and an own goaland we only mustered 1 and he cost us the game? He wasnt great but didnt cost us the first game.

[EldrickOnIce]

Originally Posted by Samonadreau

Ramo didnt cost us the first game. 44 shots against and an own goaland we only mustered 1 and he cost us the game? He wasnt great but didnt cost us the first game.

Maybe, but Ramo has been awful

[Cali Panthers Fan]

Originally Posted by Samonadreau

Ramo didnt cost us the first game. 44 shots against and an own goaland we only mustered 1 and he cost us the game? He wasnt great but didnt cost us the first game.

When you let in a goal that a junior B goaltender wouldn't let in in the last 2 minutes of a tied game? Yes, you absolutely cost your team the game.

Say what you want about not generating enough offense, but he has to have that shot every single time, especially at that time of the game. You give your team no chance to get it back for you. That doesn't work.

[Samonadreau]

Originally Posted by Cali Flames Fan

When you let in a goal that a junior B goaltender wouldn't let in in the last 2 minutes of a tied game? Yes, you absolutely cost your team the game.

Say what you want about not generating enough offense, but he has to have that shot every single time, especially at that time of the game. You give your team no chance to get it back for you. That doesn't work.

Wasnt debating the Jets game. You said cost 2 games and i was debating the first game. Read it over again maybe.

[Cali Panthers Fan]

Originally Posted by Samonadreau

Wasnt debating the Jets game. You said cost 2 games and i was debating the first game. Read it over again maybe.

Sorry.

He still let in a couple stinkers in that game. Team had no confidence after the 2nd bad goal. They never had a chance.

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