Friedman: Flames, Treliving have to show young guys they want to win at deadline - Page 8 - Calgarypuck Forums - The Unofficial Calgary Flames Fan Community

Ashasx · 02-25-2015, 02:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cleveland Steam Whistle

Oh I understood, just didn't realize you were only using point totals to evaluate players. This might be your entire issue when it comes to this topic.

You really are ridiculous. It's not "my issue". Thanks for the jab, though.

You can be purposely obtuse regarding Baertschi all you want, but nobody can look objectively at both players and believe that 2013 Joe Colborne was more proven and valuable than 2015 Sven Baertschi.

If you aren't done with the off-topic discussion, send me a PM.

GioforPM · 02-25-2015, 02:24 PM

Proven? No. Valuable - on a team with only Backlund and Stajan as proven NHL centres? And a guy they thought would play only 9 games in Monahan?

Cleveland Steam Whistle · 02-25-2015, 02:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ashasx

You really are ridiculous. It's not "my issue". Thanks for the jab, though.

You can be purposely obtuse regarding Baertschi all you want, but nobody can look objectively at both players and believe that 2013 Joe Colborne was more proven and valuable than 2015 Sven Baertschi.

If you aren't done with the off-topic discussion, send me a PM.

Oh ok.

CroFlames · 02-25-2015, 02:27 PM

Going back to the OP I am definitely buying what Friedman is selling. And I have been saying for a while that if we trade Glencross, we should trade him for a defensive prospect. Forget the picks.

A player of Glencross' calibre can fetch a defensive prospect who is NHL ready. The defensive prospect is not a rental player, therefore he helps us now, which the young guys deserve as Freidman alludes to. It also helps us in the future because said defensive prospect could potentially replace someone on our bottom pairing. Voila.

I realize that making a trade is not easy since every GM tries to fleece his counterparts, but I believe that a defensman is what Trevling should target. God speed Brad.

Badgers Nose · 02-25-2015, 02:50 PM

I would take an in his prime bona fide first line sniper all star who is good for 30-40 goals per year for the 14-16 OA pick this year, Sven (essentially worth a 2nd) and Mason Raymond (Contract).

Plus coming back would be the Leaf's 3rd - almost the same as a second.

You guys are crazy if you think that's bad. That's insanely lopsided for Calgary.

GioforPM · 02-25-2015, 02:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Badgers Nose

I would take an in his prime bona fide first line sniper all star who is good for 30-40 goals per year for the 14-16 OA pick this year, Sven (essentially worth a 2nd) and Mason Raymond (Contract).

Plus coming back would be the Leaf's 3rd - almost the same as a second.

You guys are crazy if you think that's bad. That's insanely lopsided for Calgary.

The straight return is good. I would have to look at the prime contract years and see who else is due big raises by then (or before then and that will still be in play). It's a big contract to swallow - not this year but in a few years maybe.

Vinny01 · 02-25-2015, 03:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Badgers Nose

I would take an in his prime bona fide first line sniper all star who is good for 30-40 goals per year for the 14-16 OA pick this year, Sven (essentially worth a 2nd) and Mason Raymond (Contract).

Plus coming back would be the Leaf's 3rd - almost the same as a second.

You guys are crazy if you think that's bad. That's insanely lopsided for Calgary.

Don't like Kessel he just is not the type of guy I would want on the team at $8M. The deal is fine I just don't like the player. Also I don't think the rebuild is over
Because we are having a year of high %'s that has given us a fighting chance to make the playoffs. I don't think this team falls off a cliff next year but looking at where the Avs are now wouldn't surprise me to see the Flames hovering at .500 this time next year

Badgers Nose · 02-25-2015, 03:05 PM

I suppose, but what if Hartley makes him better? He seems to get the most from his guys.

What if suddenly Kessel evolves into a 40-50 guy for the next 5 years? Then I think this trade is sung about in Flames lore 100 years from now.

wwkayaker · 02-25-2015, 11:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Badgers Nose

I would take an in his prime bona fide first line sniper all star who is good for 30-40 goals per year for the 14-16 OA pick this year, Sven (essentially worth a 2nd) and Mason Raymond (Contract).

Plus coming back would be the Leaf's 3rd - almost the same as a second.

You guys are crazy if you think that's bad. That's insanely lopsided for Calgary.

So, you think every armchair GM on this forum should see that this trade is insanely lopsided for Calgary. Given that point, why would the Toronto GM make the trade and get fleeced?

Gaskal · 02-25-2015, 11:12 PM

Lol what would Toronto want in return for Dion and Kessel anyway? I'd guess King's Ransom. Nothing the Flames would have interest offering.

Obsidian · 02-25-2015, 11:38 PM

The Flames are closer to a playoff team than any of us expected. I neither understand the issue with giving up a first and a couple of our extra assets thanks to our overall depth to get a bonafide 30-50 goal player that can put those numbers up for you for the next 4-5 years. It might be slightly early for that line of thinking, but it wouldn't hurt us, at all. Otherwise the only real piece we're missing that's not in place is a solid #3 D. But we absolutely could use the firepower up front.

GioforPM · 02-25-2015, 11:45 PM

Hartley's a good coach but I haven't seen evidence of him turning players around. I think management has given him good players to work with in that regard.

Seto would be an example of a guy with supposed attitude issues who hasn't turned things around under Hartley.

GoJetsGo · 02-25-2015, 11:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Seto would be an example of a guy with supposed attitude issues who hasn't turned things around under Hartley.

Not sure this is a good example, as Hartley was obviously unable to magically put Joe Thornton on his line.

Seto was used goods and washed up. He could have the best attitude adjustment in the world and it wouldn't matter. He's not an NHL talent anymore.

Tinordi · 02-26-2015, 01:50 AM

From this other thread: http://forum.calgarypuck.com/showthread.php?t=144642

Quote:

on how to balance short term team goals vs long term organizational goals:

you want to help your team - we are looking at a few things to help us down the stretch drive
but it can't be at expense of long term view of our team
like most teams we value picks - not just 1st round picks but all picks
deep draft coming up
still in an development and accumulation phase in terms of getting picks assets or young player assets
it is balancing act - it is based on the price
everyone talks about the 1st round which is important, but in order to have success you need to find people outside of the 1st round
that is why you try to get more picks - try to hit on somebody in the 4th or later
if you do the work properly and have some luck you can have a couple of good days
overall he considers especially early there are some high end players
thinks you can get into the 60s (overall picks) and still find good players, but goal is to find them even beyond that

Seems like Treliving has his priorities and head screwed on straight. The goal is not to risk offending professional athletes but to build a contender.

debil · 02-26-2015, 03:36 AM

Absolutely wrong approach. You build SC winner, you don't build playoffs bordeline team.

BEANZ · 02-26-2015, 08:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by debil

Absolutely wrong approach. You build SC winner, you don't build playoffs bordeline team.

Tell that to the LA Kings. They have proven that sometimes the hardest thing is just getting into the playoffs.

MacDaddy77 · 02-26-2015, 08:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BEANZ

Tell that to the LA Kings. They have proven that sometimes the hardest thing is just getting into the playoffs.

Flames are NOT the kings.... Yet

IliketoPuck · 02-26-2015, 08:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Badgers Nose

To Leafs:
CGY 1st in 2015
Sven Baertchi
Mason Raymond

To Flames
Phil Kessel
TOR 3rd in 2015

I make that trade.

If you lottery protect the 1st, I do that trade all day.

Psytic · 02-26-2015, 08:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by debil

Absolutely wrong approach. You build SC winner, you don't build playoffs bordeline team.

The irony is that the Kings traded thier future (Schenn, Simmonds, 1st, etc.for Carter and Richards) for established stars and they are better for it. Using them as an example actually supports the idea of picking up Kessel lol.

Vinny01 · 02-26-2015, 08:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by debil

Absolutely wrong approach. You build SC winner, you don't build playoffs bordeline team.

Building a Stanley Cup winner involves getting your young core playoff experience. Brodie, Backlund, Monahan, Gaudreau, Bouma, have never played in the playoffs at this level. This team is far from peaking as 2/3 of their number one line are 20 and 21 respectively.

Also the veterans over 30 Gio, Hudler, Wideman, Hiller all want playoffs. You need to show your vets you believe in them as well.

Treliving has a fine line to walk. He is buying and selling this year which is a tough thing to do. He has confirmed he won't mortgage top young assets and picks so it will be interesting to see how he handles this deadline. I can't wait for the weekend