Calgary developer’s caught with pants down - Nenshi white knight or not?

[Cowboy89]

Originally Posted by Slava

At times I probably come across as being against densification (I'm not entirely). I just get tired of the holier than attitude of some of the people pressing for this, and specifically those who rent rather than own and are ideologues on this topic largely due to their current stage of life.

I also better note that I don't even mean that comment to specifically apply to CP as I've run into some of the people at various times and places. I should also note that I'm not makig the rent v. own distinction as a comment about whether people owning should mean they have greater say either; its just that renting a 500 sq. foot apartment in the beltline and saying "we can densify" as compared to someone who actually owns and pays taxes is a night and day scenario IMO.

I think there's a good percentage of urbanites who are also extremely hypocritical in the whole urban vs. suburban debate. I get ribbing from some people at work along the lines of 'You should pay more in taxes than me, because you live so far from work.'

The irony in this arguement is that it typically comes from one co-worker who lives in a detached single family home in Glamorgan, who drives downtown to work himself. His wife also drives to work, but she works in Crowfoot .

My situation is that I live in a townhome on the edge of the city, take transit to my job downtown, and my gf drives a short distance to work fairly close to home. The way I see it is that my footprint probably costs the city the same or less than his since both of our situations have one person facing a long commute and another one a short commute. The only difference is that I live in a more efficient floorplan to service than his detached single family home. Hence, why I am the problem and need to pay more in taxes?

Living an 'urban lifestyle' in the smart growth mold doesn't mean knocking down a 1950's style bungalow, relatively close to downtown and building a 3000 sq. foot house.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

Why? We've seen from Nenshi's behavior in the past that he's a bit of a loose cannon when he doesn't get his way and is prone to lashing out?

If there's one flaw to Nenshi is that he's a bit of a baby. I'm not criticizing other aspects of the job he's doing , just that he's a little bit too prone to thrashing about.

Yep, the first thing I think of when I hear the name Naheed Nenshi is a loose cannon.

Ego maniac, really.

[mykalberta]

Anyone have a link to the transcript of the speech?

A home builder who tried to design his own line of clothes? And someone called Nenshi supporters hipsters?

http://www.calgaryherald.com/life/St...652/story.html

[Ozy_Flame]

^^ Cowboy89, not saying you're a problem, but think of this example: When an inner city road was built 50 years ago (two lane road) to cater to "suburbs" at the time, was it envisioned that the same road would have 10x more load capacity to transport suburbanites further out? It costs all of us to get you out further to your townhouse, both in extending / widening the road, as well as maintenance. I think a similar example can be had for water pipeline services.

As an example of major roads, everyone complains about traffic on Deerfoot, yet I would venture to say most people in the city have never ventured south past 17th avenue (and probably only because the airport / Edmonton are in the northbound direction). Suburbanites use those roads more than anyone.

There is a strain on city services the further you live out - I can't really see any arguement that denies this.

[Minnie]

Originally Posted by mykalberta

Anyone have a link to the transcript of the speech?

A home builder who tried to design his own line of clothes? And someone called Nenshi supporters hipsters?

http://www.calgaryherald.com/life/St...652/story.html

Can't stop laughing.

[Slava]

Originally Posted by Makarov

Maybe, but I'm not being altruistic when I advocate for higher density development. I'm being selfish; I'm advocating for higher density because that is the type of city that I want to live in.

Right and like I say I'm not painting everyone with the same brush here either. I just think that there are a lot of young, single, childless people who live in the beltline (as an example) who have a very different lifestyle than they will in say 10 years. Its easy when you're in that position to look at the suburbs and say "who wants that" and "they should pay their fair share" and "we want a bridge". Its a whole other conversation when the "they" being referenced is you though.

[Titan]

I am a little confused by the whole densification issue. What does that mean exactly?

What neighborhoods are considered 'appropriate' and which are considered sprawl? I live in McKenzie Towne and work from home primarily but my wife works at MRU and my kid goes to school in Lakeview. Is Lakeview considered a suburb? Is it sprawl? Where is the line?

Also, why would I want to live closer to downtown when I don't work there and have minmal need to go there? That seems like a false goal that only meets the needs of a percentage of citizens of a city. I would argue I am more than doing my part by working from home.

I did a search and if I sold my house, I could only afford a townhome in Lakeview. I don't understand the argument that by choosing to live in Mck Towne I am somehow destroying the city. I have a tiny yard and a very modest house. To get the same thing in an "inner city" neighbourhood would cost at least double of what my house is worth. How can anyone argue i should make that economic decision, even if I could?

I will not live in an apartment and don't see the need to. People in here are saying the 600 foot apartment is a red herring but I have not seen a good description of what is meant by "densification". If someone wants to post some thoughts on what that actually means it would be appreciated. I am trying to understand the argument better but the anti-sprawl crowd edges into zealotry and it is hard to get a sense of what their actual arguments are.

[Reaper]

Originally Posted by mykalberta

Anyone have a link to the transcript of the speech?

A home builder who tried to design his own line of clothes? And someone called Nenshi supporters hipsters?

http://www.calgaryherald.com/life/St...652/story.html

I saw the picture with the article and he seemed like the kind of guy who would walk the concourse of the Saddledome and stop in the tightest spot to check his phone while people pile up behind him.

[PsYcNeT]

I didn't know condos only came in 600 square foot with paper thin wall models.

[Cowboy89]

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

^^ Cowboy89, not saying you're a problem, but think of this example: When an inner city road was built 50 years ago (two lane road) to cater to "suburbs" at the time, was it envisioned that the same road would have 10x more load capacity to transport suburbanites further out? It costs all of us to get you out further to your townhouse, both in extending / widening the road, as well as maintenance. I think a similar example can be had for water pipeline services.

As an example of major roads, everyone complains about traffic on Deerfoot, yet I would venture to say most people in the city have never ventured south past 17th avenue (and probably only because the airport / Edmonton are in the northbound direction). Suburbanites use those roads more than anyone.

There is a strain on city services the further you live out - I can't really see any arguement that denies this.

Does it not cost 'all of us' to get his wife to crowfoot from the inner city and to pipe water to her employer's place of work? It's the same arguement, the issue is living away from where you work and the infrastructure it takes to enable that.

[mykalberta]

Also very interesting to know the Calgary Home Builders last year took it upon them selves to "inform" Calgarians about what is going on in the City through the very unbiased website

http://www.votecalgary.ca/

Ahh homebuilders, they dont have a Senator Clay Davis type in the mayors chair anymore

Sounds like Ungar's term as president only lasts until July 1.

I would really like to see the transcript of the speech or even better a video of it.

I wonder if the non-partison votecalgary website will help us out here. One would think that development in the City would be something that a factual unbaised website would post.

[Stay Golden]

Originally Posted by puckluck2

Nenshi is quickly becoming a great mayor and I think he'll be our mayor for years to come. I really liked Ralph, and didn't think we'd have such a great mayor so soon.

Unfortunately Nenshi will around for awhile there are enough voting groups that are in love with his politics.
He is the most narcissist personality for a mayor in the city i have seen, as a 3rd gen Calgary citizen i have seen my share of past Mayors. Nenshi JMO is a complete egomaniac.
I thought initially Nenshi made some beneficial moves cleaning up spending etc but i have become tired of his "act". His childish tirades.

[Cowboy89]

Originally Posted by Titan

I will not live in an apartment and don't see the need to. People in here are saying the 600 foot apartment is a red herring but I have not seen a good description of what is meant by "densification". If someone wants to post some thoughts on what that actually means it would be appreciated. I am trying to understand the argument better but the anti-sprawl crowd edges into zealotry and it is hard to get a sense of what their actual arguments are.

My take on essentially how what's being proposed will ultimately break down:

Students and low-income singles = Basement Suites, small condos

Singles, young couples, retiree couples = proverbial 600 sq. ft condos, apartments, small townhomes

Families with children = 1200 - 1500 sq ft row townhomes with small backyards and maybe a garage, duplexes, fourplexes, and larger condos/apartments

Rich People = 2000 sq. ft Single Family homes, large townhomes with garages and yards, 'American Dream' of owning your own detached single family home remains intact

What I think Calgary's missing from this density mix is basement suites (Nenshi's fighting hard on this one), small affordable condos, and townhomes and larger apartments for families.

[PsYcNeT]

Originally Posted by Stay Golden

Unfortunately Nenshi will around for awhile there are enough voting groups that are in love with his politics.
He is the most narcissist personality for a mayor in the city i have seen, as a 3rd gen Calgary citizen i have seen my share of past Mayors. Nenshi JMO is a complete egomaniac.
I thought initially Nenshi made some beneficial moves cleaning up spending etc but i have become tired of his "act". His childish tirades.

Are you kidding? Out of our last 5 mayors, Duerr is the only one who even remotely approached "humble", and he was pretty damn far off from that.

Sounds like you have some odd selective bias.

[Stay Golden]

Originally Posted by PsYcNeT

Are you kidding? Out of our last 5 mayors, Duerr is the only one who even remotely approached "humble", and he was pretty damn far off from that.

Sounds like you have some odd selective bias.

such as

[MrMastodonFarm]

Originally Posted by kirant

I got really bored and did a quick search. There are 53 occurrences of the site on this forum. Of those, 34 times they were initial posts by First Lady. Once was a link posted to an image he posted. The rest were hits generated by quoting First Lady's posts.

There's definitely a slant in who is initiating discussion of Cory Morgan's blog.

Too funny.

[Ozy_Flame]

Originally Posted by Stay Golden

Unfortunately Nenshi will around for awhile there are enough voting groups that are in love with his politics.
He is the most narcissist personality for a mayor in the city i have seen, as a 3rd gen Calgary citizen i have seen my share of past Mayors. Nenshi JMO is a complete egomaniac.
I thought initially Nenshi made some beneficial moves cleaning up spending etc but i have become tired of his "act". His childish tirades.

I'll take an effective egomaniac who gets things done over a talking head in the back pocket of developers any day of the week.

You want your politicians to be to be emotionless androids who aren't passionate about politics? I sure don't. And 88% of voting Calgary pretty much agrees with me on Nenshi's brand of politics.

[PsYcNeT]

Originally Posted by Stay Golden

such as

Well for one you're singling out Nenshi as grandiose and an egomaniac when we had King ####ing Ralph as our mayor for nearly 9 years.

[Slava]

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

I'll take an effective egomaniac who gets things done over a talking head in the back pocket of developers any day of the week.

You want your politicians to be to be emotionless androids who aren't passionate about politics? I sure don't. And 88% of voting Calgary pretty much agrees with me on Nenshi's brand of politics.

**when faced with no other option.

I'm a Nenshi supporter and will almost surely vote for him again this fall, but realistically that 88% figure wouldn't hold if someone credible was on the ballot against him.

[Muta]

Originally Posted by bizaro86

Could you provide some examples of the cities you're talking about and the benefits they have accrued? I would be genuinely interested.

Sure! Here's some examples, pulled from various websites:

1) The Benefits of Urban Density (great examples in Oakland and San Francisco): http://www.archdaily.com/180555/vide...sity-benefits/

2) "Tokyo is a very dense city but there is a lot of open space. New enclave developments are scrapping low-rise traditional neighborhoods and building blocks of high rises set in semi-private urban parks. Projects like Midtown Tokyo or Roppongi Hills take advantage of private investment to invest back into social space and infrastructure to connect the enclave to the city. The result is a shift in public-private relationships and spatial relationships in the city. But it doesn't affect the strong social sphere which has been there for some time."

http://edition.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/as...ing/index.html

3) The Pearl District in Portland: In urban planning circles, Portland has emerged as a model city, at the forefront of creating a vibrant,
quality urban environment, and the Pearl District only bolsters its reputation.

http://www.sierraclub.org/sprawl/rep...dingbetter.pdf

4) National Resources Defense Council Examples of Benefits:
Honolulu: http://www.nrdc.org/smartGrowth/visions/Honolulu-HI.asp
Memphis: http://www.nrdc.org/smartGrowth/visions/Memphis-TN.asp
Mount Pleasant: http://www.nrdc.org/smartGrowth/visi...leasant-SC.asp
Glenview: http://www.nrdc.org/smartGrowth/visions/Glenview-IL.asp
Tempe: http://www.nrdc.org/smartGrowth/visions/Tempe-AZ.asp

5) Toronto: Urban Density is the Key to Smart Growth http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2012...rt_growth.html


Other links you may be interested in:

Smart Growth in Maryland: http://smartgrowth.umd.edu/smartgrowthinmaryland.html

That's just with basic Google searches done. I have to watch my time, I'm at work at the moment but I love talking about this stuff.