[Signing] Gaudreau to Columbus (7 x $9.75 million)

[just_tim]

I think all this is well stated by Salim Valji on TSN. JG made us feel the butt of a joke. For a fan base already conditioned for bad things to happen, this is not insignificant. We were spurned by Fox who went on to win a Norris. Bowed to Iginla’s wishes and did not maximize value. Khadri veto’d a trade. O’Reilly signing was a total mess. Oldest building in the league and then when it’s signed and done, that rug is pulled. 2004 - “It was in”. Won’t even detail all the questionable free agent signings that looked good on paper and then bombed. Add all this along with (lack of) playoff success since 1989, the fact that Canadian teams in general can’t win a cup, or supposedly attract non-Canadian talent, this episode caps it. The solution for many is to quit looking at American players. So, in an effort to spite ourselves, we should self-limit our access to some of the best available talent? Many say we lost him for nothing. That is completely false as we gained a massively valuable amount of cap space and in flat-tax world that, used correctly that is beyond valuable. The worry is all about the above and the ability to use the cap space to attract talent. The way JG handled it all was less than optimal. That speaks to his character, not Calgary’s. Time to move along.

[GirlySports]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

Being immature and unable to think for oneself. Aren't those qualities we expect in an adult, not just a man?

Maybe i'm just parsing words here. Johnny is male, Maybe you're saying he's not acting like an adult male, which would in fact be a "man". If they were female, would you say they're not acting like a woman?

Yes, I explained above.

[Jordan!]

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

Johnny should have signed with Phoenix. Playing in a 5,000 seat barn, just like college. And talk about playing in anonymity? You can't be anything but anonymous as a hockey player in Phoenix.

Yeah, We're saving the bank for Auston Matthews

Originally Posted by just_tim

I think all this is well stated by Salim Valji on TSN. JG made us feel the butt of a joke. For a fan base already conditioned for bad things to happen, this is not insignificant. We were spurned by Fox who went on to win a Norris. Bowed to Iginla’s wishes and did not maximize value. Khadri veto’d a trade. O’Reilly signing was a total mess. Oldest building in the league and then when it’s signed and done, that rug is pulled. 2004 - “It was in”. Won’t even detail all the questionable free agent signings that looked good on paper and then bombed. Add all this along with (lack of) playoff success since 1989, the fact that Canadian teams in general can’t win a cup, or supposedly attract non-Canadian talent, this episode caps it. The solution for many is to quit looking at American players. So, in an effort to spite ourselves, we should self-limit our access to some of the best available talent? Many say we lost him for nothing. That is completely false as we gained a massively valuable amount of cap space and in flat-tax world that, used correctly that is beyond valuable. The worry is all about the above and the ability to use the cap space to attract talent. The way JG handled it all was less than optimal. That speaks to his character, not Calgary’s. Time to move along.

Have you tried adopting a team in the Arizona desert in 2000 when The Flames were going to Portland? Then moving there seconds after their owner files BK and live through 12+ years of uncertainty while also being a fan of The Flames?

[Strange Brew]

The lack of upfront money is shocking. That's a huge miss.

[chummer]

At least he's super excited-

https://twitter.com/user/status/1547604847834189824

[stone hands]

people value different things in life. The fact that johnny left so much money on the table (something most people covet more than anything professionally) says to me that whatever Columbus is offering is worth more than money to him which is definitely respectable

I find it kind of comforting in a way, I really liked him as a flame and wish him nothing but the best. He was the most entertaining thing about this team for 8 years and earned his right to choose his workplace. Perhaps he realized that making almost double digit millions of dollars a year for almost the next decade which will set him and multiple generations up for life means that a few million here or there is really inconsequential in the grand scheme of things and he can choose the best fit for his personal life

Thanks for the memories johnny

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

There’s a way to gamble and lose where you don’t make the organization, and more importantly the city, look like a joke.

Why does the city look like a joke?

Would people have rather that we traded Gaudreau for the 24th overall pick, a prospect and a 3rd round in the 2021 offseason.

I don't. We would have not had as good a 2021-2022 season and likely just finish 3rd in the division and lose in the first round. Yay.

Would people rather we traded at the deadline when we were leading the division and he was having a potential Hart candidate season?

I wouldn't have - this at least gave us a chance to make a playoff run and still sign Gaudreau at the end of the year. It sucks that he left but it really was a 50/50 decision.

People overvalue how much the late first we could have received for Gaudreau in the 2021-22 offseason would mean to us.

We still wouldn't have Gaudreau. The situation with Tkachuk is likely even worse, and all we'd have is a late first to show for it.

Treliving makes that trade and it would just get endlessly criticized just like Feaster's trade of Iginla get's criticized still today.

[djsFlames]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

Don't pile on djsFlames. It was my comment.

He's not my definition of a man. If that's narrow and ignorant, I accept that.

But just look at the last 48 hours.

It's been said here. He's lost money, lost term, lost legacy, lost a chance at a cup. He might lose more money because there's no signing bonus, no front loading. He just can't think for himself. He's immature.

Thanks girly for putting it in a way better/more tactful way than I was able to yesterday while half distracted by work.

I think it was immature and that he didn't take initiative. In a lot of ways he half-assed one of the biggest career decisions of his life. To each their own. But calling him out as a bit soft is just calling a spade a spade in this instance - in my opinion (and some others).

[Johnny Makarov]

He looks like he has 60 skittles in his mouth.

I'm still kinda in shock right now.

[littlereddevil]

Originally Posted by heep223

This is just getting even weirder.

• Columbus GM was as shocked as the rest of us
• Was willing to take a 17% haircut to be closer to home, but not an additional few hundred grand per year to actually be home
• Chose Columbus because when he first played a game there he....thought the arena was cool?

The only thing that makes some amount of logical sense to me is that he wants a zero pressure situation, doesn't care about winning, and wants to appease his family

Still just makes very little sense

Most likely it's this. For as much as we like to bash Columbus, it's a decent American city (and fairly safe). It's just a sleeper town, that's all.

I can't imagine the Gaudreaus wanting to live close to Newark, New Jersey. It's kind of unsafe.

When it was obvious that the Flyers wouldn't be able to sign him, he chose the next best offer in a location that he and his family would like.

[memphusk]

Originally Posted by chummer

At least he's super excited-

https://twitter.com/user/status/1547604847834189824

Wouldn't you be? He's rich bitch!

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

Yes, I explained above.

I'm OK with suggesting he's not acting like an adult, and I can see some of that. Without knowing everything, hard to really state that definitively though. Maybe he was the only adult in the room.

[djsFlames]

Originally Posted by chummer

At least he's super excited-

https://twitter.com/user/status/1547604847834189824

What a strange timeline.

Honestly, what is this? Feels like an act.

[GirlySports]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

Why does the city look like a joke?

Would people have rather that we traded Gaudreau for the 24th overall pick, a prospect and a 3rd round in the 2021 offseason.

I don't. We would have not had as good a 2021-2022 season and likely just finish 3rd in the division and lose in the first round. Yay.

Would people rather we traded at the deadline when we were leading the division and he was having a potential Hart candidate season?

I wouldn't have - this at least gave us a chance to make a playoff run and still sign Gaudreau at the end of the year. It sucks that he left but it really was a 50/50 decision.

People overvalue how much the late first we could have received for Gaudreau in the 2021-22 offseason would mean to us.

We still wouldn't have Gaudreau. The situation with Tkachuk is likely even worse, and all we'd have is a late first to show for it.

Treliving makes that trade and it would just get endlessly criticized just like Feaster's trade of Iginla get's criticized still today.

GM's aren't dumb, they know when other GMs are stuck. Like how Carolina fleeced caphell teams yesterday. Or how Edmonton had to trade Kassian plus draft picks for nothing. And they now know that Treliving is stuck with Tkachuk so they're not going to give him the world, why would they? And Tkachuk would have to agree to an extension.

[djsFlames]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

Naw he started with this stuff yesterday and has now double downed.

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by littlereddevil

I feel this was a major reason why Gaudreau chose to sign with whatever American NHL team would pay him similarly to Calgary's reported offer:

https://twitter.com/MattBarnaby3636/...16728353415168

Let's be honest, it's extremely difficult for Canadian NHL teams to compete with American markets.

I'm willing to bet that the Tkachuks (yes, Brady too), Miller and Matthews will all leave next. It's hard to attract and keep American NHL stars when they have no real reason to stay here besides the possibility of winning a cup. And a Canadian team hasn't won a cup in nearly 30 years. I don't think it's a coincidence that a Canadian team hasn't won in such a long time.

If Gaudreau left us to simply play in a U.S. market (and out of the spotlight of a Canadian team), I have less hard feelings. It's the nature of the business and will always be the challenge for Canadian teams trying to compete with American teams. Canadian teams should be very cautious about American players moving forward. You have to protect the product on the ice. Bring players here that actually want to play in a Canadian market and don't care about the fact that they can earn more money in the U.S. (after taxes) or play out of the spotlight / media attention.

Like what else is there for sports teams in Columbus? The Buckeyes? That's basically it. Gaudreau will get his opportunity to play for a team while facing less pressure to perform and win.

The taxes are vastly overrated

In Calgary if you made 10 million you would have 5.226 million a year after taxes

In California (3 teams) you would have 4.778 million
In New York (3 teams) you would have 5.212 million
In Minnesota you would have 5.099 million
In New Jersey you would have 5.112 million
In Pennsylvania (2 teams) you would have 5.111 million

In 10 of the 25 US markets you would have less money. In all 10 of those cities their sales tax is higher than in Calgary.

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

I thought they weren't now.

https://www.sportingnews.com/us/nhl/...p1a8v24yvggd3v

I just CTL+F'd through the MOU for the words 'bonus' and then 'escrow' and I have no idea where Sporting News sees that...I can't imagine they invented it, but Sporting News was also reporting the courting period still existed...


This jumped out to me (and to be fair was also quoted in the SN article you linked):

An amount equal to ten (10) percent of each Player’s 2020/21 Paragraph 1 NHL Salary plus Signing Bonus (but, for clarity, not including Roster, Reporting and Performance Bonuses) shall be “deferred” (the “20-21 Deferred Salary”)

Signing bonuses were included in the deferred salary. Everything I've ever read says that everything (including buyouts, bonuses) is subject except to escrow except AHL salaries.

In practical terms it wouldn't make any sense to exclude signing bonuses - it would make for a totally wonky calculation, especially when the 50/50 split was annual.

[Heavy Jack]

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

The taxes are vastly over low.

In Calgary if you made 10 million you would have 5.226 million a year after taxes

In California (3 teams) you would have 4.778 million
In New York (3 teams) you would have 5.212 million
In Minnesota you would have 5.099 million
In New Jersey you would have 5.112 million
In Pennsylvania (2 teams) you would have 5.111 million

In 10 of the 25 US markets you would have less money. In all 10 of those cities their sales tax is higher than in Calgary.

To add to that aren’t all players getting paid in American dollars?? Pretty good conversion rate if your living in Canada and getting paid American dollars.

[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by Wolfman

Tre could've offered him 12M and he wouldn't have stayed

Right, because money was never a factor. Johnny wanted to live out in the eastern time zone for his family. I actually respect that over say a guy who just chases after the all mighty dollar.

I know us Flames fans don’t like that he didn’t pick us, but it may be a blessing in disguise. The Oilers have become supremely better over night and I’m not sure the Flames can compete against them over the long haul. Time to rebuild, although this organization just seems to refuse to want to go in that direction.

[littlereddevil]

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

The taxes are vastly over low.

In Calgary if you made 10 million you would have 5.226 million a year after taxes

In California (3 teams) you would have 4.778 million
In New York (3 teams) you would have 5.212 million
In Minnesota you would have 5.099 million
In New Jersey you would have 5.112 million
In Pennsylvania (2 teams) you would have 5.111 million

In 10 of the 25 US markets you would have less money. In all 10 of those cities their sales tax is higher than in Calgary.

Yes, but the highest tax bracket in Ohio is lower than in Alberta. He ended up signing where he had the best value from his contract available. Gaudreau will earn more in Columbus after taxes than he would here if he had signed that reported $10.5M per year offer. And that's besides the fact that I doubt money was the sole deciding factor on where he would sign, as some others have mentioned he likely wanted to play out of the spotlight with a smaller NHL team, and be a little closer to home.