[PGT] Blues defeat Flames 3-2, Nov. 11th

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

Wouldn't that keep him on the books for another 8 years? I'd rather they just send him down or tell him to stay home.

Yes but it's $1.667 million/per season for most of those years. This is more a discussion for the offseason but if he finishes the season below last season's numbers (already disappointing) then what's the point of keeping him around? For all we know, Edwards may not sign off on it.

[BigThief]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Yes but it's $1.667 million/per season for most of those years. This is more a discussion for the offseason but if he finishes the season below last season's numbers (already disappointing) then what's the point of keeping him around? For all we know, Edwards may not sign off on it.

Because it's pointless to buy him out. It's a waste of cap space later when we have plenty now and in the immediate future. I hate buy outs, then make a problem slightly smaller but for a much longer period

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by gvitaly

I agree that you need guys like Lomberg. I would be perfectly happy i he dressed for only 40-60 games though.

The way I see it, the problem arises from having a log jam of 3rd liners.

After the Frost/Farabee trade, the team needed to move out a couple of forwards. Now with them taking a spot on the Huberdeau and Kadri lines respectively it's impossible to find a top 9 spot for all of Zary, Sharangovich, Klapka, and Pospisil(once he gets healthy). Which means that the Flames need to lose 2-3 forwards at the same time before they would even consider calling up Kerins. That's why, from a fan perspective, it's easier to justify sitting Lomberg and playing a line like Sharangovich - Zary/Kerins - Pospisil/Klapka as the 3b line.

As far as 4th liners go, I would really like to see what we have in both Morton and Stromgren at the NHL level. Especially since Stromgren is waivers eligible next year.

Originally Posted by Royle9

Nailed it.
Entire roster is basically bottom 6 Forwards.
I'd argue you have 3 top 6 forwards:

Coronato
Kadri
Huberdeau

No elite top line forwards at all.

It's that combined with the coach not being flexible with how he utilizes the 4th line. Look at the roster dressed last night.

The team has 3 natural C's - Kadri, Frost, Backlund

Then it has 2 natural RW's - Coronato, Klapka

2 guys that are LH that can play RW - Coleman, Zary

And it has 5 natural LW's that are best at LW - Huberdeau, Honzek, Farabee, Sharangovich, Lomberg

Really the obvious answer to me is you have 11 guys that are more top 9 NHLers, and only 1 real 4th line guy there. Scratch the 4th line guy.

I don't really care if it's Morton, Kerins, or even just Kirkland but try something different on that 4th line.

Huberdeau - Frost - Coronato seems to work and has been generating offense.

Farabee - Kadri - Klapka seems to work as Kadri and Klapka have some chemistry

Honzek - Backlund - Coleman is the only constent line all season.

Sharangovich and Zary are not going to find their game bouncing between LW, RW, C, and healthy scratches.

Sharangovich - Kirkland/Morton/Kerins - Zary - give an iteration of that 4th line 3 games and see what happens with some consistency.

And it will help Kadri too, he's been impacted by the blender this season too with no line combo he's played with more than 11% or 41 minutes, the guy has a new line every game and has played with 8 different wingers this season (Huberdeau, Frost, Coronato, Zary, Farabee, Gridin, Sharangovich, Klapka)

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by BigThief

Because it's pointless to buy him out. It's a waste of cap space later when we have plenty now and in the immediate future. I hate buy outs, then make a problem slightly smaller but for a much longer period

With the cap going up it's chump change. He's taking up a valuable roster spot and isn't likely the example you want for young players. How many years do you think they should keep him occupying a spot just because of his contract? It's early for the conversation and I wouldn't envy Conroy having to run that by Edwards who we know doesn't like to eat salary. I just can't imagine having this guy around the team in a few years they way he's just going through the motions.

[Major Major]

Sharky it's a soft touch guy. Scratching him and all the negative attention he's getting right now is compounding his issues. Playing up the lineup on a bad team with no expectations is what he needs. As soon as the forward ranks are trimmed a bit he'll start scoring again. Then you just gotta find a trade partner

[Saqe]

Originally Posted by SutterBrother

It's going to be at least 5 years before the Flames are competitive again (if they do it right).

The clock STARTS when we have a 1st line elite center. The only way you get that is by drafting them. So assume it's next year, and assume they make the team as an 18 year old.

3 years until their 20 year old season. Probably not dominant until 22.

That's your minimum timeline. There are a lot of secondary pieces in place, but the main one is still on the wishlist.

With that in mind - the current culture doesn't matter.

None of these players aside from Wolf and Huberdeau (ugh) will be on the team in 2030. And Wolf doesn't give a tinker's cuss what anybody else thinks.

That's a pretty realistic timeline. Have to get that elite #1C or nothing changes ever. So tank hard until you get one.


Also after getting competitive, it still takes a couple of years to actually challenge for the cup. But that's gravy time already.

[SuperMatt18]

A big part of Sharangovich's issues are his .857 on ice save percentage.

His 12 GA on 6.5 xGA makes his play look a lot worse than it's actually been.

He's been no worse than Zary, Coronato, or others have been most of the season.

[BACKCHECK!!!]

We may never win again… (optimistic)

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

A big part of Sharangovich's issues are his .857 on ice save percentage.

His 12 GA on 6.5 xGA makes his play look a lot worse than it's actually been.

He's been no worse than Zary, Coronato, or others have been most of the season.

Coronato at least is far more engaged than Sharangovich has been. And both of those guys are younger.

I don't disagree that all three have been disappointing though.

[BigThief]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

With the cap going up it's chump change. He's taking up a valuable roster spot and isn't likely the example you want for young players. How many years do you think they should keep him occupying a spot just because of his contract? It's early for the conversation and I wouldn't envy Conroy having to run that by Edwards who we know doesn't like to eat salary. I just can't imagine having this guy around the team in a few years they way he's just going through the motions.

There's absolutely no valuable spot on the roster. We lack depth everywhere

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

It's that combined with the coach not being flexible with how he utilizes the 4th line. Look at the roster dressed last night.

The team has 3 natural C's - Kadri, Frost, Backlund

Then it has 2 natural RW's - Coronato, Klapka

2 guys that are LH that can play RW - Coleman, Zary

And it has 5 natural LW's that are best at LW - Huberdeau, Honzek, Farabee, Sharangovich, Lomberg

Really the obvious answer to me is you have 11 guys that are more top 9 NHLers, and only 1 real 4th line guy there. Scratch the 4th line guy.

I don't really care if it's Morton, Kerins, or even just Kirkland but try something different on that 4th line.

Huberdeau - Frost - Coronato seems to work and has been generating offense.

Farabee - Kadri - Klapka seems to work as Kadri and Klapka have some chemistry

Honzek - Backlund - Coleman is the only constent line all season.

Sharangovich and Zary are not going to find their game bouncing between LW, RW, C, and healthy scratches.

Sharangovich - Kirkland/Morton/Kerins - Zary - give an iteration of that 4th line 3 games and see what happens with some consistency.

And it will help Kadri too, he's been impacted by the blender this season too with no line combo he's played with more than 11% or 41 minutes, the guy has a new line every game and has played with 8 different wingers this season (Huberdeau, Frost, Coronato, Zary, Farabee, Gridin, Sharangovich, Klapka)

Sharangovich actually prefers RW, FWIW.

I think they were trying to get Zary reps at centre which is why he was on the 4th line (and really, playing with Klapka shouldn't be that hard, plus Lomberg seems like an offensive player except he has zero hands - everything else should work). But Zary doesn't seem like centre is where his future lies.

I don't disagree that they may as well add a more skill guy iknstead of Lomberg though and have a buzzing 4th line, not a gritty one.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Sharangovich actually prefers RW, FWIW.

I think they were trying to get Zary reps at centre which is why he was on the 4th line (and really, playing with Klapka shouldn't be that hard, plus Lomberg seems like an offensive player except he has zero hands - everything else should work). But Zary doesn't seem like centre is where his future lies.

I don't disagree that they may as well add a more skill guy iknstead of Lomberg though and have a buzzing 4th line, not a gritty one.

Here's the thing... I feel like you could have both. If you keep Klapka on the 4th line instead of pushing him up the line up I think something like:

Huberdeau - Kadri - Zary
Sharangovich - Frost - Coronato
Honzek - Backlund - Coleman
Farabee - Kerins - Klapka

Could give you a gritty 4th line that is still more offensive than today, Farabee plays with a bit of edge too.

The problem is right now you don't want Zary and Sharangovich playing that high up the lineup due to their early season struggles, and would rather have Farabee and Klapka in those minutes.

So I think it's where having a Sharangovich - Kerins - Zary line you can shelter a bit might be worth a try to see if you get those two going a little bit confidence wise.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

Here's the thing... I feel like you could have both. If you keep Klapka on the 4th line instead of pushing him up the line up I think something like:

Huberdeau - Kadri - Zary
Sharangovich - Frost - Coronato
Honzek - Backlund - Coleman
Farabee - Kerins - Klapka

Could give you a gritty 4th line that is still more offensive than today, Farabee plays with a bit of edge too.

The problem is right now you don't want Zary and Sharangovich playing that high up the lineup due to their early season struggles, and would rather have Farabee and Klapka in those minutes.

So I think it's where having a Sharangovich - Kerins - Zary line you can shelter a bit might be worth a try to see if you get those two going a little bit confidence wise.

Eventually Zary and Sharangovich are gonna give way to Gridin and the 2026 draft pick anyway.

[Calgary4LIfe]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

They are already playing Zary and Sharangovich - neither who have been great as NHL C's out of position as 4th line C because the 4th line LW spot isn't available.

Younger prospects I 100% agree shouldn't be on the 4th line and can benefit from AHL time - but Kerins is 23, Morton is 26 absolutely no reason those guys can't get 4th line NHL time as a way to adapt to the NHL.

I get that, and I have argued since the start of the season that there are simply too many bodies on this team. I think part of that is simple asset management - it is 100% fine to overcook a prospect on the farm, play these vets, and try to flip them for assets at the deadline.


However, I do disagree - a player like Kerins will not really adapt to the NHL by taking irregular 4th line shifts. I strongly believe that you should set up a prospect to succeed, rather than just slot him on a line that he has no hope of excelling in. It isn't a real opportunity if it is 4th line minutes. Slot him in the 3rd line or higher, and give him rope. That's how I would like to see this team develop prospects.

Originally Posted by gvitaly

I agree that you need guys like Lomberg. I would be perfectly happy i he dressed for only 40-60 games though.

The way I see it, the problem arises from having a log jam of 3rd liners.

After the Frost/Farabee trade, the team needed to move out a couple of forwards. Now with them taking a spot on the Huberdeau and Kadri lines respectively it's impossible to find a top 9 spot for all of Zary, Sharangovich, Klapka, and Pospisil(once he gets healthy). Which means that the Flames need to lose 2-3 forwards at the same time before they would even consider calling up Kerins. That's why, from a fan perspective, it's easier to justify sitting Lomberg and playing a line like Sharangovich - Zary/Kerins - Pospisil/Klapka as the 3b line.

As far as 4th liners go, I would really like to see what we have in both Morton and Stromgren at the NHL level. Especially since Stromgren is waivers eligible next year.

100% agree with almost anything - too many forwards on this team, and it isn't counting Pospisil who has been out all year. Honzek took a spot.

I do think that things will shift at some point this season, and a spot or two will open up to cycle prospects through the lineup. I made the same exact case last season with respect to defencemen. I do believe Stromgren would be fine starting off on the 4th line, so yes, he can share the ice-time with Lomberg. I do really think what Lomberg brings on the ice is underrated and underappreciated - he can't do what he does from just inside the room. What he does on the bench and on the ice is helpful.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by Mathgod

This again. You go on an on about culture yet you don't provide specifics of what the team should do about it other than keep some of the vets.

Ok, so they keep some of the vets. Then what?

If I had the answer to that, I'd be a coach.

I do know that, for instance, every young forward who has ever played regularly on Backlund's line has improved his game massively. I know that it's tough for a rookie defenceman to break in as a regular unless he has an experienced partner to show him the ropes and cover for some of his mistakes.

It's unfortunate that Timbit doesn't seem to be around and posting anymore, because you should really ask him.