Mass Shooting November 5 Texas Church

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

I really think people are unable to grasp the magnitude of the problem facing the US when they talk about simple solutions like that. I agree, regulations need to be put in place, because the perfect cannot be the enemy of the good.

Exactly, so let's start!

But I also agree that it's a matter of decades worth of reforms if you really want to make significant gains on this, and I don't think that's talked about enough. People talk about this like there are quick and easy fixes, and if you ever get a congress and white house who are willing to go all out on this, that veil will fall away pretty quickly and be exploited by opponents.

Yes, it is decades worth of reforms, and yes it is talked about significantly, and I don't think very many people talk about anything like it's an easy fix in the US. Most are just saying "let's do something, let's ****ing start!!!".

[MoneyGuy]

Friend of mine in Alabama wrote on Facebook that maybe it's time for people to start carrying guns to church services. I think he's serious. I don't know what to say.

Sure, that's the solution to gun violence: more guns. Arm everyone. Imagine the hail of bullets.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by OMG!WTF!

Not so sure I want this guy driving 95 mph through town with a shotgun hanging out the window.



There's a big difference between having a badge and not. Most of the time good guys with guns just get in the way.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/n...104-story.html

Does anyone else find it a little disturbing how this guy just saw 26 people massacred in front of him and is able to just calmly speak to reporters about his role and how important having a gun was on the same damn day?

He sounds and looks like when someone in Calgary scares off a robber and talks to the media about it.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by MoneyGuy

Friend of mine in Alabama wrote on Facebook that maybe it's time for people to start carrying guns to church services. I think he's serious. I don't know what to say.

Sure, that's the solution to gun violence: more guns. Arm everyone. Imagine the hail of bullets.

I don't know, maybe Peanut is right. If they're a gun crazy country and there isn't enough traction from their own ****ing citizens, maybe it is time as Canadians to just stop caring and worrying and calling for change.

If they don't care enough then we should stop letting it get to us so much and be such a big issue up here.

[llwhiteoutll]

Originally Posted by jayswin

Does anyone else find it a little disturbing how this guy just saw 26 people massacred in front of him and is able to just calmly speak to reporters about his role and how important having a gun was on the same damn day?

He sounds and looks like when someone in Calgary scares off a robber and talks to the media about it.

Not sure what point you’re trying to make here? People react to shock and trauma in different ways, especially right after the fact.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by OMG!WTF!

Not so sure I want this guy driving 95 mph through town with a shotgun hanging out the window.



There's a big difference between having a badge and not. Most of the time good guys with guns just get in the way.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/n...104-story.html

Wait, hold on. I just clicked the article you posted and realized it was a mass shooting, shootout style event where multiple customers went for their own guns in a Walmart in Colorado on Wednesday?! Jesus Christ I skipped your link because I thought it was related to this mass shooting.

I had no idea this even happened, but it sounds crazy.

Most shoppers crouched behind checkout counters or bolted toward the back exit. But as a gunman fired inside a Wal-Mart store in a Denver suburb, some patrons took a more defensive approach: They grabbed their own guns.

They were the proverbial "good guys with guns" that gun rights advocates say have the power to stop mass shootings.

But police in Thornton, Colo., said that in this case the well-intentioned gun carriers set the stage for chaos, stalling efforts to capture the suspect in the Wednesday night shooting that killed three people.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by llwhiteoutll

Not sure what point you’re trying to make here? People react to shock and trauma in different ways, especially right after the fact.

Sure, and this reaction seemed a little disturbing to me and so I decided to ask people on a message board if anyone felt the same. Is that okay Mr. gunowner or do we need to shut down that part of gun discussion as well?

[2Stonedbirds]

Originally Posted by OMG!WTF!

Not so sure I want this guy driving 95 mph through town with a shotgun hanging out the window.



There's a big difference between having a badge and not. Most of the time good guys with guns just get in the way.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/n...104-story.html

Interesting, so once CCW holders drew their firearms, the guy stopped shooting innocent people, and fled? AND it didn't turn into the Wild West? Wtf that can't be right.
Took the cops 5 hours to find this guy, wonder what is more impeding for police, watching some video or stuffing corpses into bags.
Not sure who would want anyone driving dangerously while poking scatter guns out a vehicle window, also unsure of why his looks and dress are of any importance to you.

[pepper24]

This sums up the USA and guns....


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[socalwingfan]

I'm not sure who this is, but saw it retweeted and thought it was spot on

Erica Buist‏Verified account @ericabuist 19h19 hours ago
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Why not just ban guns and when people are upset about it, just send them thoughts and prayers?

[2Stonedbirds]

The comparison to Japan is also an odd one, considering citizens have NEVER been allowed to own private arms for hundreds of years, before the dawn of firearms. They belonged to the emperor. Even today ownership of a katana in Japan has to be registered.
I'm going to go out on a limb and suggest that wouldn't fly in America, never mind the whole Pandora's box situation.

[OMG!WTF!]

Originally Posted by 2Stonedbirds

Not sure who would want anyone driving dangerously while poking scatter guns out a vehicle window, also unsure of why his looks and dress are of any importance to you.

You're actually right. I shouldn't pick on the guy's looks. He did a very heroic thing. But the point stands. There's a massive difference between him and guys with badges.

Also, it didn't matter that the good guys had guns in this case. The shooter was on his way out, going to his car. The good guy didn't kill the shooter. The shooter committed suicide. The car chase was what precipitated the end and you can do that without a gun. In general, I get monumentally frustrated when people think a well armed citizenry is a polite citizenry. You just can't get any more evidence to the contrary.

As for the WalMart shooting, did the shooter really notice all the people hiding with their guns? No one shot at him. Seems like he did what he planned to do then left. Did all those people just wave their guns at him?

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

That's the thing, it's not anything other than a gun problem, because the only place this happens with any regularity is in places with easy access to guns: The US and the Third World.

This has nothing to do with man's state in nature it's entirely about easy reliable access to the means to create mass carnage.

Obviously easy access to assault rifles plays a big part in this, and the wilful folly of America lawmakers allowing their sale to civilians is impossible to overstate.

But alienation and rage also plays a part. Most men in Texas had guns 60 years ago, but mass shootings were almost unheard of. Societies are not all equal when it comes to how many people (and by people here read men) are profoundly alienated from society at large, and act out that alienation with acts of mass violence. For whatever reason, men in Japan, Switzerland, and Costa Rica don't carry acts of mass violent revenge against the rest of society in anything close to the frequency American men do today.

You don't have to ignore the role played by easy access to guns to also look into the social conditions that foster male fury.

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

Obviously easy access to assault rifles plays a big part in this, and the wilful folly of America lawmakers allowing their sale to civilians is impossible to overstate.

The focus on assault rifles is seriously misplaced unless the problem you're trying to address is mass shootings specifically, rather than gun violence generally. Still in favour of banning them outside of a gun range, because you simply do not need a high round-per-minute rifle for anything really... but they are not the source of that much gun violence in the grand scheme, so it's really just a feel-good measure.

I've read a number of people in here saying "just do SOMETHING", as if it doesn't matter what you do or what impact it has as long as someone's doing something. That's a terrible approach to public policy and always yields similarly terrible results.

For me, a system of testing and licensing that's much more stringent than what's required for you to drive a car would be the best way to go, if we're living in a dream world where it's possible to pass such measures.

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

NRA spokesman says it isn't a guns issue, it's a mental health one.

Also says "fortunately somebody else had a gun that was shooting in the opposite direction otherwise it [wouldn't] have been as bad as it was. It would have been much worse."

http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/trump-t...alth-1.4388871

2 great NRA talking points!

Thank god someone was there to spring into action just in time to prevent the 28th or 29th person from being senselessly murdered.

I'm sure everyone feels much safer.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

Obviously easy access to assault rifles plays a big part in this, and the wilful folly of America lawmakers allowing their sale to civilians is impossible to overstate.

But alienation and rage also plays a part. Most men in Texas had guns 60 years ago, but mass shootings were almost unheard of. Societies are not all equal when it comes to how many people (and by people here read men) are profoundly alienated from society at large, and act out that alienation with acts of mass violence. For whatever reason, men in Japan, Switzerland, and Costa Rica don't carry acts of mass violent revenge against the rest of society in anything close to the frequency American men do today.

You don't have to ignore the role played by easy access to guns to also look into the social conditions that foster male fury.

yeah, but the social conditions are a lot harder to tackle than the gun issue.

Every western country on earth, and i'm willing to suggest it is EVERY country on earth, has young, angry men willing to harm people for the most venal of reasons.

The ludicrous access to reliable killing tools is the only thing separating the US from the rest of the industrialized west.

Honestly, I don't care at all about disenfranchised men feeling out of place in society, and I don't think you really do either.

After some angry young man who hated women decided to shoot a bunch of them at Ecole Polytechnique, the country passed laws requiring firearm registration, proper training and storage and limited the access to specific types of firearms. You know, sensible gun legislation in response to a horrific act of violence.

You need a license in canada just to buy ammunition. That's a sensible policy.

The fact this is even a discussion...Imagine a society where people didn't have to be licensed to operate a motor vehicle?

[2Stonedbirds]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

Thank god someone was there to spring into action just in time to prevent the 28th or 29th person from being senselessly murdered.

I'm sure everyone feels much safer.

Some people actually did feel safer.

https://www.google.ca/amp/amp.dailyc...shooter-video/

“He came with his [gun], and he took cover behind a car and he shot the guy–I’m not sure if it was inside the church as he was coming out–but if it wasn’t for him the guy wouldn’t have stopped,” he said. “And that’s when [the suspect] got in his vehicle and took off, and our friend shot through the window again trying to get him.”

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by 2Stonedbirds

Some people actually did feel safer.

https://www.google.ca/amp/amp.dailyc...shooter-video/

“He came with his [gun], and he took cover behind a car and he shot the guy–I’m not sure if it was inside the church as he was coming out–but if it wasn’t for him the guy wouldn’t have stopped,” he said. “And that’s when [the suspect] got in his vehicle and took off, and our friend shot through the window again trying to get him.”

Feeling safer and being safer are two different things.

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

Feeling safer and being safer are two different things.

A distinction that completely eludes gun owners unfortunatly

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

A distinction that completely eludes gun owners unfortunatly

not all of us