I hate smokers throwing butts on the ground

[DOK]

I think it's interesting really. This debate has me thinking. The biggest issue is the circle of effect I think. When someone smokes their circle of effect is what, like 5 ft? When someone who doesn't smoke and doesn't want to smell second hand smoke needs to walk around that person, their circle of effect is also 5 ft. That's two big circles fighting for their place! No wonder the argument is firing up!

It's interesting the heroin comment that came up. You see the yellow mail boxes, that is a receptacle just for them. So they don't affect non heroin users! It's kind of proving both sides, but though it was interesting to bring up.

Obviously this isn't going to be won or lost on CP. Personally, I think it's terribly unfortunate that such a product exists and is on the market now a days. Every single person can agree it's healthier NOT to smoke, which I believe gives the non smokers the leg up. They are just saying, do it and don't affect me. The smokers are saying, go be non smokers and don't let that affect me. But in the end, the two cannot co exist because even one smoker and one non smoker need so much space, physically, between each other to do just that, not affect each other.

[Barnes]

Originally Posted by fotze

Zappa probably would want to be known in a negative light if it were against popular opinion.

Plus you forgot some other smokers

Dion Phaneuf
Mikka Kiprusoff
Mario Lemieux
Guy Lesmokerfacefleur

Almost put those exact four on.

[ResAlien]

Originally Posted by Tiger

I don't like post like these, I make lots of mistakes. Sometimes I type to fast, sometimes I don't proof read. But 99% of the time someone makes a spelling mistake you know exactly what they are saying, yet their argument is negated because of a grammar error.

I have a problem with this because I have dyslexia, and because of it I have a hard time spelling. Sometimes I write different words than I'm actually thinking I'm writing, and sometimes when I proof read my brain reads the word I meant to write not the word that is written. So if you are going to bitch about someones writing in a forum maybe think twice and calm down. there could be an actual reason behind it, but usually it is because it is a forum not a thesis so really people like you need to get a grip on reality. If I write a novel sure go ahead and rip it apart, but judging someone on forum is idiotic.

Good for you Bucky. I was just kind of being an arse to Demented there for what I feel is a stupid way to judge people, and you went and got all hurt about it.

[DementedReality]

ok, fine ... i admit i was a little harsh and maybe some hyperbole ... so if i can think of a better way to describe it, maybe i just think these are people who cant help themselves. loser? cant think of a better word, but i will acknolwedge it is a bit harsh of a description.

that being said, no apology for lack of caps and grammatical errors .... its a freaking message board, sue me.

[macker]

Originally Posted by Barnes

Almost put those exact four on.

So who is the all time greatest smoker? I guess one can idolize smokers, just surprising to see a compiled list

[4X4]

Originally Posted by DementedReality

ok, fine ... i admit i was a little harsh and maybe some hyperbole ... so if i can think of a better way to describe it, maybe i just think these are people who cant help themselves. loser? cant think of a better word, but i will acknolwedge it is a bit harsh of a description.

that being said, no apology for lack of caps and grammatical errors .... its a freaking message board, sue me.

A guy that can't even follow grade 4 grammar is calling other people losers.

I smoke on a public street. Sue me.

[Hemi-Cuda]

Originally Posted by Frankster

It IS my life too, and it IS my right to smoke on a street corner.

hopefully it won't be for much longer. i can't drink in public, so i don't see why smokers should get to bother all those around them with such a disgusting habit. it'll be a good day when smoking is finally banned anywhere in public

[longsuffering]

Originally Posted by ktrain

there's nothing better than flicking a cigarette out the window of your car, while driving 140 down the deerfoot in the slow lane, listening to nickelback, after a night of good drinking. I'd put it out in the ash tray, but i'm too busy texting by buddy's girlfriend for a hook up. Even if i did get a ticket for littering, i'd just fight it in court rather than paying the fine. Besides, i need to get home quickly so i can teach my 1 year old to read.

best.post.ever

[Dion]

[malcolmk14]

Originally Posted by Tiger

I don't like post like these, I make lots of mistakes. Sometimes I type to fast, sometimes I don't proof read. But 99% of the time someone makes a spelling mistake you know exactly what they are saying, yet their argument is negated because of a grammar error.

I have a problem with this because I have dyslexia, and because of it I have a hard time spelling. Sometimes I write different words than I'm actually thinking I'm writing, and sometimes when I proof read my brain reads the word I meant to write not the word that is written. So if you are going to bitch about someones writing in a forum maybe think twice and calm down. there could be an actual reason behind it, but usually it is because it is a forum not a thesis so really people like you need to get a grip on reality. If I write a novel sure go ahead and rip it apart, but judging someone on forum is idiotic.

Great post and all but there are three errors.

[Jimmy Stang]

Originally Posted by DementedReality

.... its a freaking message board, sue me.

A semicolon would have worked well there instead of a comma. Just saying.

I kid. I kid.

[flip]

Originally Posted by Ice

I don't understand why its so difficult for smokers to understand that their habit negatively affects other people. I'm not even talking about cancer, since smokers refuse to acknowledge second had smoke does indeed cause cancer. But it would be nice if my throat didn't have to burn or my clothing smell like smoke because a smoker can't walk 20 feet away from a crowd of people to light up. Smokers are very militant about their right to smoke and have no regard for anyone who doesn't want to breathe it in. A smokers addiction shouldn't force their habit on me. With a little common courtesy, a smoker could smoke and a non-smoker could be unaffected.

Originally Posted by Flashpoint

Yes, you are right. The "anti-smoking crowd" doesn't actually have anything to complain about, so we were looking for something, and got together decided to pick on smokers for no reason.

It has nothing to do with:

• Our health
• Your health
• Our tax dollars supporting your health
• Forest fires
• Littering
• How inconsiderate smokers generally are towards others
• Addiction
• How society has become so insulated that everyone feels entitled to "do their own thing".
• Public cleanliness
• Or the cost of growing your own reefer.

It's because we are "holier than thou". That's our crew. That's the way we roll.

Shut er down guys! Flip is on to us.

Wow. Sorry guys I had no idea all smokers were like that.

I guess all blacks are criminals, all indians are drunks, all southerners are hicks and all of edmonton is trailer trash.

See I've seen people in each of those groups who fit the category and that is enough for me to just hate the entire group without any consideration as to the fact that there are individuals that make up these groups. But hey, what's the big deal? Nothing bad has ever come from making vast generalizations about an entire group of people based on a stereotype that may or may not be true.

For full disclosure I believe we should have a "health tax" and people that are unfit, smoke, do dangerous sporting/leisure activities should all pay more because they are an unnecesarry burden on the health care system.

But if I go down the list item by item your theory gets debunked pretty quick.

-My health - No one's business but my own. Keep your paternalism to yourself I like freedom of choice thank you very much

- Your health - I guarantee you that my smoking has ZERO effect on your health - Even if you have to walk through one of my death clouds once a month

-Tax Dollars - as I've already said I think this is valid but I want the way things work to change too so we're on the same side here. Only I want it to include a lot more than smokers

-Forest Fires - I don't throw my butts out the window, especially during dry season in the mountains/forest

- Littering - Again, we're in agreement, I hate littering.

- How inconsiderate smokers are towards others - In all my life I have never had to deal with an inconsiderate smoker, any time I've asked them to mind their smoke they've complied, I just make sure I'm not an ahole or condescending about it. Sometimes they just don't realize that others don't like it and until asked they don't think to move. Being able to legally smoke in a bar or workplace or whatever doesn't count. Consideration has nothing to do with obeying the law. If you were subjected to undue smoke in one of these places I guess you should have talked to your Alderman/MLA/MP. I remember smoking in bars and coming home reeking like smoke and hating it but that was the law and I dealt with it. When I didn't want to smell like an ashtray I'd avoid these places.

-Addiction - Once again keep your paternalistic, cradle to grave socialist ideas far from me.

- Entitlement in society - Not even sure what this has to do with smoking. I've never felt entitled to light up in a non-smoking building. Like 99% of society I obey the law.

- Public Cleanliness - This is littering you just listed it twice to pad your list.

- Growing reefer - I like weed.

Thought I should add, I bet most of you aren't as militant as you seem on CP but there are a select few who think it is their right to impose their will on a minority just because they don't like it. Yes, I hate health care burdens, yes I hate litter and yes I hate rude people but 99% of smokers probably only fit one of these categories and that is the annoying littering of butts. I don't like it but it certainly doesn't bother me, if it bothers you so much you should petition city hall to increase cops handing out littering fines to smokers.

My point is that all of my posts aren't to attack sensible minded people. If someone is blowing smoke in your face in the non-smoking bus shelter you should be pissed off, or if they are littering their butts on your front lawn you should be pissed off. However, if all you have to complain about is walking past a smoker downtown a few times a week you have nothing to be bothered about. You will not get cancer from inhaling second hand smoke a few times a week.

I'm against militant anti-smokers, not non-smokers in general.

Seeing people try and enforce their will on others with false and misleading justification (that being not valid reasons like health care burdens) are you trying to force others to conform with you. Unfortunately your personal preference does not constitute your freedoms being impeded. Any attempt to coerce others to comply with your demands, without having just cause (ie your freedom being impeded), is not what our free society is about. When it comes down to it my (and I mean me, not "smokers") smoking effects you in ZERO way whatsoever. And if you do have frequent problems with smokers, then that is your problem with rude people, not smokers in general. Rude people are everywhere, and as I said in my previous post, I'm sure we could create threads about them and generalize and say that because one of group x is inconsiderate then I guess all of them must be systematically eliminated because they supposedly infringe on your rights because you know better than they do but they won't listen to you.

[Jimmy Stang]

Originally Posted by flip

I guess all blacks are criminals, all indians are drunks, all southerners are hicks and all of edmonton is trailer trash.

Well 3 out of 4 ain't bad.

[Peanut]

Originally Posted by KTrain

There's nothing better than flicking a cigarette out the window of your car, while driving 140 down the Deerfoot in the slow lane, listening to Nickelback, after a night of good drinking. I'd put it out in the ash tray, but I'm too busy texting by buddy's girlfriend for a hook up. Even if I did get a ticket for littering, I'd just fight it in court rather than paying the fine. Besides, I need to get home quickly so I can teach my 1 year old to read.

YES. I just went back through the thread to find and thank this. Hilarious.

[Dion]

[stang]

[Mad Mel]

Originally Posted by GreenTeaFrapp

Do you really think that all those reformed smokers are just going to stick the money they used to spend of cigarettes in their mattresses? No. They're gong to buy other things that are also taxed. So at least some of that money will be coming back.

Yeah, but if you deny them cigarettes, you're slowing the process of natural selection.

[stang]

Originally Posted by taco.vidal

If the Canadian government sold weed it would be $50 for half a gram of crap while you could still get better stuff cheaper from your neighbourhood dealer.

Look at at the amount of tax in booze and smokes. The government will add that tax to the cost of weed. You dont think gangs will continue to grow if they can undercut the price of the government?

Why would the government be the ones supplying it? They dont supply Alcohol or Tobacco, they just tax the snot out of it. You would have provate companys making it. I dont see too many people growing tobacco or undercutting the price on booze.

Originally Posted by EDBTZ12

Doing my homework? Please...you are delusional if you think marijuana makes more money than coke and crack.

1g of bud= $10
1g of coke= $120

You pay too much for your coke.

[Huntingwhale]

Originally Posted by EDBTZ12

Doing my homework? Please...you are delusional if you think marijuana makes more money than coke and crack.

1g of bud= $10
1g of coke= $120

If you are paying $120/g of coke, you my friend are getting ripped the F off.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by ricosuave

Sorry Flip, until the day that they create a cigarette that is completely odourless and smokeless, the "nazi anti-smokers" will have very valid points.

.

Its been done.

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