Rock Bottom

[saillias]

Originally Posted by timbit

Who did the Flames replace Iginla Bouwmeester Tanguay and Kipper with this year?

Were they upgrades?

Do you honestly think they will get more productive short term replacements, for the Vets they are going to move for next season.

Won't happen...and as a result they will be markedly worse.

This team needs to continue taking its long overdue medicine and get healed in a sustainable way.

The Flames won't need to deliberately lose.

Well I have a couple issues with this, the first being that Feaster is incompetent at trades, and Burke is not. We can assume then that he will handle the trade deadline better, and/or his hire will not be trading for magic beans.

The second issue I have is that Iginla, Kipper and JayBo are not replaceable players... But Stajan, Stempniak, Cammalleri?

http://www.capgeek.com/free-agents/

Pick 3 names at random and you can probably get 3 guys who can contribute more to a team than those 3 have.

[djsFlames]

Avs were big time tankers last year. It's pitiful how badly they did when looking at what their roster has the ability to do one season later. Honestly unfair that they got to pile MacKinnon on top of already one of the top 10 collections of centers in the league prior to that draft.

[JiriHrdina]

Originally Posted by saillias

Well I have a couple issues with this, the first being that Feaster is incompetent at trades, and Burke is not. We can assume then that he will handle the trade deadline better, and/or his hire will not be trading for magic beans.

The second issue I have is that Iginla, Kipper and JayBo are not replaceable players... But Stajan, Stempniak, Cammalleri?

http://www.capgeek.com/free-agents/

Pick 3 names at random and you can probably get 3 guys who can contribute more to a team than those 3 have.

Replace Stajan, Stempniak and Cammalleri with kids or guys taken off the free agent dollar bin and the team will be a worse team.

People may not be fans of those players but they are proven in this league. In the case of Cammalleri he is a guy that can play on a top line.

Those guys aren't as easily replaced as you make it seem.

And yes - they probably will be dealt for magic beans. I dearly hope they aren't traded for immediate help. That would be dumb. As would trying to address immediate needs by overpaying for free agents.

Moreover, if you think they are that easy to replace - then why would teams pay anything of value to get them. And therefore how does Burke trade them to make this team better?

[timbit]

Why didn't they sign free agents to replace Kipper, Jarome and Bouwmeester.

Lack of cap space?

Why don't you find 3 FAs who who would be willing to sign here?

Starting to sound like the Oilers mantra. " open for business" "big game hunting"....CRICKETS.

[Bend it like Bourgeois]

Originally Posted by timbit

Who did the Flames replace Iginla Bouwmeester Tanguay and Kipper with this year?

Were they upgrades?

Do you honestly think they will get more productive short term replacements, for the Vets they are going to move for picks, next season?

Won't happen...and as a result they will be markedly worse.

This team needs to continue taking its long overdue medicine and get healed in a sustainable way.

The Flames won't need to deliberately lose.

I thought Jiri meant literally the same roster. I'm probably a bit slow but that is what i was reacting to. He has since clarified.

As to not needing to deliberately lose...i think people are kidding themselves that there is a difference, but to each their own

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

While it is obviously something of a false dichotomy, if the Flames aren't trying to improve their team this off-season, then yes, the organization is plotting to deliberately lose next. It's the kind of thing we accuse the Oilers of doing while demanding changes to the draft rules as a result.

The rebuilding process is essentially based on taking a step back to take two steps forward which means getting worse today to be better tomorrow. When the Flames parted ways with Iginla and Bouwmeester last season they essentially plotted to lose and I am on board with that decision. This trade deadline will be no different with the team purposely selling off players and getting worse in the process. The team should be trying to improve but from within and that may take time and yield some cellar dwelling teams in the process. There really isn't a quick fix to improve this team outside of overpaying as many top UFA's as you can which will only yield mediocrity now and in the future.

[Flash Walken]

If you don't have a hope of getting better, is it really intentionally losing?

The only way out of this will be drafting a new team.

It's an undesirable place to play. That only changes when there are good players here to play with, and if free agents aren't willing to play here, those good players are going to have to come from the draft, and that's going to take years barring 2 or 3 later round homeruns.

[FaFaFlamey]

Originally Posted by burn_baby_burn

I have been a die hard fan of the Flames, like a lot of other people, since they arrived in Calgary. I have also been a die hard fan of the Kansas City Chiefs for over 20 years. I mean, I live in Red Deer Alberta and have season tickets not only to the Flames but to the Chiefs as well. However, is this something to be proud of? How much time and money do I waste every year devoting myself to two franchises that seem to just flounder around not really accomplishing anything, ever?

Let me get this straight, you fly to KC and back several times a year to watch their home games? That is exactly how I'd live if I won the lottery...very cool!

[19Yzerman19]

Originally Posted by Joborule

Flames have scored 100 goals.

Sabers have scored only 75.

Holy crap, do you ever have to really suck to be the worst. This is what's likely in store for next season. On paper, it'll get worse before it gets better, but we should be having some positives that are a work in progress that makes things look better.

Now imagine how bad the Sabres would be WITHOUT Ryan Miller, and then realize that that's exactly how bad they'll be next year, since he'll be gone (and likely Matt Moulson too). It's going to be really hard to win the McDavid sweepstakes.

[ForeverFlameFan]

Patience is a virtue. We'll get on the top sometime, just not in a couple of years. Also keep in mind how tough our division is. But I like your post. I too won't give up on my Flames. times are tough, but we'll make it through. Just think about all of the prospects and young talent we have going for us! It's very exciting.

[jeffman]

Originally Posted by timbit

Why didn't they sign free agents to replace Kipper, Jarome and Bouwmeester.

Lack of cap space?

Why don't you find 3 FAs who who would be willing to sign here?

Starting to sound like the Oilers mantra. " open for business" "big game hunting"....CRICKETS.

We just got out of cap hell why get back into by signing the top free agents

[Frequitude]

If this is rock bottom, I'll happily take it.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

Frankly, if we need to deliberately lose for the rest of this season and next to get McDavid before we can figure out any way to build a quality team, that should be a point of embarrassment for this franchise.

Making deals that exchange short-term assets for long-term assets isn't deliberately losing.

Also, Pens and Hawks fans don't strike me as especially embarrassed these days. The fact Crosby, Malkin, Toews, and Kane each represent a terrible losing season is water under the bridge now that those players are cornerstones of teams that will compete for the Cup for a decade.

[timbit]

Originally Posted by jeffman

We just got out of cap hell why get back into by signing the top free agents

Just to clarify...i am in 100 pc agreement.

[$ven27]

Originally Posted by djsFlames

Avs were big time tankers last year. It's pitiful how badly they did when looking at what their roster has the ability to do one season later. Honestly unfair that they got to pile MacKinnon on top of already one of the top 10 collections of centers in the league prior to that draft.

How so?

[Bend it like Bourgeois]

I am surprised how many people seem to have had a religious conversion and now think the oilers have had it right all along.

Not only should bottom teams not try to get better, they in fact can't?

We should change the Edmonton is no good thread to edmonotn is unlucky. They did everything right in terms by sitting on their hands, collecting their top 3 picks, and it's only bad luck in having Hall RNH and Yak instead of Tavares or Crosby or stamkos.

Maybe it's just too bitter a pill for me to swallow but I just can't accept that.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

Making deals that exchange short-term assets for long-term assets isn't deliberately losing.

If you are going to argue against something I never said, please don't waste your time or mine by typing out a response.

I never said anything about not making deals like that. I was speaking to deliberately making no effort to improve the on-ice product so the Flames can tank for McDavid. And if Burke's strategy is "lets just suck for a few years and let #1 picks roll in", he needs to be fired right now. That is the very model up north that we have spent several years laughing at and it is incredibly hypocritical to propose it as a plan of action for the Flames.

The Flames need to be doing a lot of things right now. And if Burke is half the genius people make him out to be, fleecing a few teams in trade is part of it. And not just for picks that might help this team in three years when kids like Monahan have spent their NHL careers learning to accept losing like Hall, Eberle and RNH have. But young players who can step into the lineup and help move this organization forward.

[CliffFletcher]

People expecting Burke to perform some kind of trading magic to improve this team in any meaningful way are going to be disappointed. This is an asset poor team. That deficiency is rarely addressed by trades, which involve swapping different kinds of assets. It took years of extremely poor drafting and development to starve this franchise of assets. It will take years of strong drafting and development to restore them. The purpose of trades at this point should be to put more bullets in the chamber at the draft.

And no, that is not the Oilers approach. They never stockpiled picks to rev up a rebuild. They just sucked and expected those high picks to be their saviours.

[nik-]

I'd be a lot more likely to be fine with being terrible this year and next if I wasn't terrified of ownership's impatience.

[saillias]

Originally Posted by timbit

Why didn't they sign free agents to replace Kipper, Jarome and Bouwmeester.

Lack of cap space?

Why don't you find 3 FAs who who would be willing to sign here?

Starting to sound like the Oilers mantra. " open for business" "big game hunting"....CRICKETS.

I'm not really sure what to make of this post. I think it is in response to my previous one because I brought up free agents. And if so, just to clarify I specifically mentioned that Iginla, Kipper and Bouwmeester are irreplaceable.

As for the rest of your post. If you try to sign free agents, well that's futile and you're like the Oilers. ok.