[PGT] Winnipeg 5 Calgary 2

[Kidder]

Cooley had cooled off recently, maybe related to his injury where he just took a couple weeks off.

Returned yesterday to let in 5 to a weak SD Gulls team in an OT loss.

Let Cooley get back into form on the farm. Vladar has (hopefully) one start left next weekend in Seattle on the back to back before the 4 Nations break.

If Cooley has regained his incredible form by the end of February, then the swap can be made. No need to rush.

[Enoch Root]

The Flames only have 2 more B2Bs remaining, Feb 1-2 against DET and SEA, then Mar 17-18 in TOR and NYR.

I doubt Vladar (or Cooley) plays 5 more games regardless of how he plays. They are going to run with Wolf from here on out, as long as they are in the playoff mix.

[butterfly]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

That really doesn’t show that he lost it by much at all

The notches on the corner of the crease are in line with the face off dot

The puck is below the marks where the C stands for the face off

Not ideal but not off by much, inches. Not a foot and a half. Good god man

He moves right by a foot and he’s square to Vilardi’s left foot on the dot

Are you kidding? Why is he guarding the outside of the net? Flames were right in the game up until that terrible goal.

[Bingo]

The two extremes in this argument just kill me.

Ignoring the fact that Vladar has had the more difficult starts and plays all the back to backs is silly.

Trying to justify giving up five on two expected, also silly.

[Rhett44]

Vladar is awful and the Flames defense is awful. Both can be true.

Wolf is the only reason we are not a lottery team. This is a bad team being propped up by historical goaltending.

[Rhett44]

Originally Posted by Bingo

The two extremes in this argument just kill me.

Ignoring the fact that Vladar has had the more difficult starts and plays all the back to backs is silly.

Trying to justify giving up five on two expected, also silly.

Vladar has not had the more difficult starts. He just makes goaltending look difficult.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Bingo

The two extremes in this argument just kill me.

Ignoring the fact that Vladar has had the more difficult starts and plays all the back to backs is silly.

Trying to justify giving up five on two expected, also silly.

The extremes don't really matter at this point as he's in his last months of being a Flame and probably isn't going to get many more starts. Flames are extremely fortunate that Wolf has seamlessly translated to the NHL because if he struggled like a lot of first year goaltenders the Flames would have a lot of uncertainty at the position going forward. Now at least the position looks fairly solidified whether Cooley is the future backup or they sign another goaltender in the offseason to compete.

[butterfly]

Originally Posted by Bingo

The two extremes in this argument just kill me.

Ignoring the fact that Vladar has had the more difficult starts and plays all the back to backs is silly.

Trying to justify giving up five on two expected, also silly.

GSAE/60 adjusts for difficulty of shots allowed and he's on a Calvin Pickard level.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by Bingo

The two extremes in this argument just kill me.

Ignoring the fact that Vladar has had the more difficult starts and plays all the back to backs is silly.

Trying to justify giving up five on two expected, also silly.

Ever since he came into the league?

Because his numbers have been pretty consistent regardless of situational variables such as b2b etc.

And those numbers are.....really poor. (sans his initial season in Calgary)

[stemit14]

It’s interesting how much we have been comparing Wolf to Kipper this season and now it’s starting to feel like it did with Jipper and his backups. Like you had to play Kipper every game because the backup (no matter who they were) would struggle… and the team would play worse in front of the backup goalie as well. Can’t remember what year but I’m pretty sure there was a calendar year (or maybe even two years) where kipper had every win for the flames. The rare time the flames put in a backup was pretty much an automatic loss.

Not picking on Vladar here. He has been given tough starts exclusively and the team has struggled in front of him. It’s more a comparison of how it felt with Kipper and his his backups and how it feels now with Wolf and Vladar.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Vladar isn't good. He is who has been his entire career. Trying to justify his poor play because of hard starts would be more meaningful if he was a better goalie years prior.

The reason we don't always notice every great shot or mistake is because Wolf is stopping them.

We also can't let his poor play stop us from playing him, this team needs to figure out how to play in front of a backup and being functional. This happened with Kipper and it wasn't good.

[Burner]

When Hanley is on your #1 defense pairing its hard to expect a win. Our defenceman depth was exposed. I think its time to call up some young ones and see what they can do . Stop gap journey men arent the way forward for a rebuilding team.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Rhett44

Vladar has not had the more difficult starts. He just makes goaltending look difficult.

You don't think starting all six of the Flames second game in back to backs is a tougher schedule?

Wolf's average situational opponent has a win percentage of .510
Vladar's average situational opponent has a win percentage of .547

The gap has closed, and Wolf has been great, but Vladar continues to have the tougher average start on the season without even taking into account the 6/6 in night two number.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Paulie Walnuts

Vladar isn't good. He is who has been his entire career. Trying to justify his poor play because of hard starts would be more meaningful if he was a better goalie years prior.

The reason we don't always notice every great shot or mistake is because Wolf is stopping them.

We also can't let his poor play stop us from playing him, this team needs to figure out how to play in front of a backup and being functional. This happened with Kipper and it wasn't good.

I'm not justifying anything.

I had the silly comment for both camps.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Paulie Walnuts

Vladar isn't good. He is who has been his entire career. Trying to justify his poor play because of hard starts would be more meaningful if he was a better goalie years prior.

The reason we don't always notice every great shot or mistake is because Wolf is stopping them.

We also can't let his poor play stop us from playing him, this team needs to figure out how to play in front of a backup and being functional. This happened with Kipper and it wasn't good.

This is where I disagree. I think Vladar is 'good' but thats his ceiling. Thats where he tops out.

The problem with Vladar simply comes down to consistency and thats why he'll probably never crack the roster as an NHL starter, and its not a problem unique to him by any means.

Its simply that his average baseline play is below 'NHL Starter' range and hes inconsistent.

Some nights he can be a rockstar, other nights he's fairly steady and others he puts up a stinker. You need to have a steady baseline of 'Really Good' to be an NHL starting goaltender and I dont feel that he has that.

Now, I'm not going to base anything on last night, thats a 'forget it' game for everyone.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Originally Posted by Bingo

I'm not justifying anything.

I had the silly comment for both camps.

Sorry the comment wasn't for you, it was a previous page about shot placement and stuff being more difficult for Vladar.

Just saying Hiller a much more consistent goalie was ran out of the NHL within days of putting up stats like this with the Flames.

Vladar is helping make a big case for Wolf being MVP.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Originally Posted by Locke

This is where I disagree. I think Vladar is 'good' but thats his ceiling. Thats where he tops out.

The problem with Vladar simply comes down to consistency and thats why he'll probably never crack the roster as an NHL starter, and its not a problem unique to him by any means.

Its simply that his average baseline play is below 'NHL Starter' range and hes inconsistent.

Some nights he can be a rockstar, other nights he's fairly steady and others he puts up a stinker. You need to have a steady baseline of 'Really Good' to be an NHL starting goaltender and I dont feel that he has that.

Now, I'm not going to base anything on last night, thats a 'forget it' game for everyone.

He is a career .892 take out his first year 5 games he is sitting at .895 and 3.08 GAA.

Now sure what the expectation is with Vladar, or even the hate. He is who he is.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by Bingo

I'm not justifying anything.

I had the silly comment for both camps.

I don’t think it’s silly to look at the individual plays

Should Connor be able to walk Miro like that and go bar down?
Should Backlund blindly backhand a puck (to which Vladar was square) on the tape of Appleton for an easy wide open net?
Should Vilardi be able to walk in from the top of the circle when there are no Flames within 20 feet, much less a stick length?

I’m not even saying Vladar was good, just pointing towards absolutely egregious breakdowns

Sure stats say that the chances are equal but the Jets didn’t give the Flames any really easy looks like that due to their own poor D

I really don’t find that silly at all, to be quite honest


You know teams do a lot of video. Highly doubt that the coaches liked that when they review

[Paulie Walnuts]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

I don’t think it’s silly to look at the individual plays

Should Connor be able to walk Miro like that and go bar down?
Should Backlund blindly backhand a puck (to which Vladar was square) on the tape of Appleton for an easy wide open net?
Should Vilardi be able to walk in from the top of the circle when there are no Flames within 20 feet, much less a stick length?

I’m not even saying Vladar was good, just pointing towards absolutely egregious breakdowns

Sure stats say that the chances are equal but the Jets didn’t give the Flames any really easy looks like that due to their own poor D

I really don’t find that silly at all, to be quite honest


You know teams do a lot of video. Highly doubt that the coaches liked that when they review

These plays are highlighted because they are not being saved. We can't expect him to save every thing, but Wolf is making the saves. Now the coach is expecting the big saves and Vladar isn't giving us the big saves.

I still think they need to play Vladar though, we need the team not to fall into the trap that they can only get wins when Wolf plays.

[TheIronMaiden]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

I don’t think it’s silly to look at the individual plays

Should Connor be able to walk Miro like that and go bar down?
Should Backlund blindly backhand a puck (to which Vladar was square) on the tape of Appleton for an easy wide open net?
Should Vilardi be able to walk in from the top of the circle when there are no Flames within 20 feet, much less a stick length?

I’m not even saying Vladar was good, just pointing towards absolutely egregious breakdowns

Sure stats say that the chances are equal but the Jets didn’t give the Flames any really easy looks like that due to their own poor D

I really don’t find that silly at all, to be quite honest


You know teams do a lot of video. Highly doubt that the coaches liked that when they review

The breakdowns on their own don't fairly represent what happened.

Winnipeg was the better team. They shut down the neutral zone and limited the Flames offense to a handful of possessions. From that they were able to apply relentless pressure. When your team is getting shelled gaffs start to happen. Hard to Blame the game on any individual player, because the Teams are far apart in terms of skill.

The Flames win games by woking harder, when a team will skill works hard, they normally beat the Flames.