Calgary EMS Workers going on strike

[CaramonLS]

Originally Posted by urban1

In the absence of scum sucking unions, jobs usually pay what the markets values them at. Years ago, engineers couldnt find jobs in Calgary. There was no demand and hence wages were low. Today theres a demand for engineers and thus the jobs pay well.

You're right, screw government intervention. When they come to your house and have to save your life, screw set prices, they should have a market type system. Of course, you just want the government to protect YOUR interests, which includes set prices for life saving services like this.

Wouldn't an on-scene negotiation to save your life be fun while you're bleeding out?

[JiriHrdina]

Originally Posted by CaramonLS

You're right, screw government intervention. When they come to your house and have to save your life, screw set prices, they should have a market type system. Of course, you just want the government to protect YOUR interests, which includes set prices for life saving services like this.

Wouldn't an on-scene negotiation to save your life be fun while you're bleeding out?

Again, that type of emotional appeal just doesn't work. There are people that volunteer their time in life-saving capcities. Our society simply doesn't equate that type of thing to how much one is paid. Maybe it should but that would represent a huge shift in how our society works.

I'm more interested in the pratical reasons for a substantial raise. Which could include:
- changes in the job for EMS in Calgary (added responsibily, different roles, etc)
- lack of people enterring the field because of the poor pay
- cost of living increases, or lack thereof

Its easy to throw out the "they save lives" argument but if we are basing the discussion on that how do we quantify what they are worth....because in that sense you can place a dollar figure on saved lives, so it falls apart.

[jolinar of malkshor]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

A lot of people deserve to be paid more.

Let's take the social work industry which is facing a huge staffing problem. They are facing servicing a growing city while at the same time seeing a reduction in their staff due to people leaving for high paying jobs. So we need to get their wages up too

Same with nurses

Same with teachers

Same with people that work with the eldery

Same with drug counsellors

I could go on. So who do we pay more of that group? The entire argument that they should be paid more because of "what they do" just doesn't work in this world. You need to provide a tangible reason for why the increase in wages is required. And as I've stated I'm open to listening to those arguments.

You can't compare paramedics to any of those professions other than maybe nurses. And we gave nurses a large pay increase as they deserved it.

Regardless if the other professions deserve or require a pay increase, the fact is they are not as essential as EMT or paramedics (other than the nurses).

The arguement of they need to be paid more for what they do is perfectly fine.....they were not being paid properly before and the wage needs to be adjusted accordingly.

[CaramonLS]

I know that Jiri, I was simply equating it to his statement about "scum sucking unions", and nothing more. I was attacking his point about how he wanted specific benefits for himself (no Unions), because he is probably someone who has had to deal with them (business owner perhaps?) - and simply wanted them abolished for his own good.

[JiriHrdina]

Originally Posted by jolinar of malkshor

You can't compare paramedics to any of those professions other than maybe nurses. And we gave nurses a large pay increase as they deserved it.

Regardless if the other professions deserve or require a pay increase, the fact is they are not as essential as EMT or paramedics (other than the nurses).

The arguement of they need to be paid more for what they do is perfectly fine.....they were not being paid properly before and the wage needs to be adjusted accordingly.

Based on what information were they not paid properly. How are you arriving at that conclusion?

[jolinar of malkshor]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

Again, that type of emotional appeal just doesn't work. There are people that volunteer their time in life-saving capcities. Our society simply doesn't equate that type of thing to how much one is paid. Maybe it should but that would represent a huge shift in how our society works.

I'm more interested in the pratical reasons for a substantial raise. Which could include:
- changes in the job for EMS in Calgary (added responsibily, different roles, etc)
- lack of people enterring the field because of the poor pay
- cost of living increases, or lack thereof

Its easy to throw out the "they save lives" argument but if we are basing the discussion on that how do we quantify what they are worth....because in that sense you can place a dollar figure on saved lives, so it falls apart.

The pay increase is simply adjusting as they were never paid the amount they should have been paid.

[jolinar of malkshor]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

Based on what information were they not paid properly. How are you arriving at that conclusion?

My own conclussion......when someone who works as say.....a passport officer makes more than someone who saves lives....that means they were not being paid properly.

Or just as a previous poster had posted that his wife was making just above minimum wage....that is how I cam to that conclusion.

[JiriHrdina]

Originally Posted by jolinar of malkshor

My own conclussion......when someone who works as say.....a passport officer makes more than someone who saves lives....that means they were not being paid properly.

Or just as a previous poster had posted that his wife was making just above minimum wage....that is how I cam to that conclusion.

Well I guess where we are seeing some confusion. I'm reading posts here that say they can make 75K a year. Is that information wrong?

[jolinar of malkshor]

Originally Posted by urban1

If youre an EMT or paramedic and you dont like it or cant take the stress, then quit. Even in a market like this where recruiting may be tough, someone will come along and take your job.

QUIT! Dont go on strike and hold the public hostage. You chose to be a paramedic. Hopefully you did your research and new what the pay was and what the working conditions were. 2% to 3% sounds good to me. If thats not enough for you then quit and find a new career. Even if we give you 10% now, you will be back at the trough in a few years asking for another 10%.

In the absence of scum sucking unions, jobs usually pay what the markets values them at. Years ago, engineers couldnt find jobs in Calgary. There was no demand and hence wages were low. Today theres a demand for engineers and thus the jobs pay well.

Ask the union if oil crashes and the housing market crashes in Calgary, will the paramedics and EMTs give their wage increases back? In poor economic times, everyone loves a government job because it gives you security even if your job is not needed anymore. Throw in benefits and guaranteed hours and overtime and all of a sudden that union job looks great.

It's not about if they can take the stress or not...they obviously can....the point is why do it???? Why put up with so much when they can go work at home depot for the same amount???? This is what they want to do but why??? Why stick with it when they get paid jack ??? Why put up with the late nights, the deaths, the people that attack them for no reason? The lower life expectancy??? That is the point....do you get it NOW?

[jolinar of malkshor]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

Well I guess where we are seeing some confusion. I'm reading posts here that say they can make 75K a year. Is that information wrong?

Any of us can make that amount if we work two jobs......and that is basically what they are doing....putting in a load of over time.....having no life......building up personal stress and home life stress just to make what they should be making.....You have to look at the base salary not the what people can make in over time.

For those who are mad that they dont get paid over time because they are in a private job....well you are doing it because there IS a benifit.....you will be rewarded for your hard work, ie: promotions, bonuses, ect.....as a public servant that is incentive to work over time. If they didn't get over time there would be NO benifit to them at all. That is how the public services works.

[Reggie Dunlop]

Life's inherently unfair. No sense getting worked up over what the other feller is earning. Ain't going to improve your lot in life, and the other feller probably doesn't care what you think anyways.

[socalwingfan]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

Well I guess where we are seeing some confusion. I'm reading posts here that say they can make 75K a year. Is that information wrong?

I think he was quoting my post - my wife worked as an EMT in California and made just over $8 hour - sorry it was not relevant to the topic, but I was amazed in the pay difference and had to comment.
As for the argument of EMTs/Paramedics sitting around watching TV - I don't know what it's like there, but when she moved into dispatch she more often than not ran out of ambulances to send to calls. And to those who say its not a dangerous job - she had at least 1 call a day where someone she was treating threatened to beat her up or had to wait until the cops secured an area before they could even enter.

[Reggie Dunlop]

If EMTs can get more money -- more power to 'em. I sure as hell wouldn't want to do their job. Then again, I'm a mite squeamish.

Did buy me a couple of the standard-issue EMT pants off eBay though. Better'n cargo pants with lots o'pockets for cellphones and all my gadgets. Darn comfortable too.

[JiriHrdina]

Originally Posted by jolinar of malkshor

Any of us can make that amount if we work two jobs......and that is basically what they are doing....putting in a load of over time.....having no life......building up personal stress and home life stress just to make what they should be making.....You have to look at the base salary not the what people can make in over time.

For those who are mad that they dont get paid over time because they are in a private job....well you are doing it because there IS a benifit.....you will be rewarded for your hard work, ie: promotions, bonuses, ect.....as a public servant that is incentive to work over time. If they didn't get over time there would be NO benifit to them at all. That is how the public services works.

I understand all of that. But to clarify is it your position that someone working in the public sector should be able to make a high income?

If someone enters the public sector they shoud no what they are getting into.

Let me ask you this. How much would be willing to pay out of you own pocket in extra taxes to facilitate the wages you think EMT's should get?

[Reggie Dunlop]

I always ask myself "what kind of public servant do I want showing up at my door when I ask for 'em?"

(In no particular order)

1. Paramedics
2. Police
3. Firemen

I have no problem paying these folks whatever is necessary to keep sufficient numbers of them around.

[Jiggy]

When you see the CHR CEO getting paid a ridiculous amount, why shouldn't the EMS get a raise? Atleast the EMS are helping save lives, this jackass has done nothing to help our health care, yet he gets a nice raise....

http://www.canada.com/calgaryherald/...0e54a2&k=57542

The link is for anyone wanting to know how much he makes...

[Reggie Dunlop]

Originally Posted by Jiggy

When you see the CHR CEO getting paid a ridiculous amount, why shouldn't the EMS get a raise? Atleast the EMS are helping save lives, this jackass has done nothing to help our health care, yet he gets a nice raise....

http://www.canada.com/calgaryherald/...0e54a2&k=57542

The link is for anyone wanting to know how much he makes...

Just askin.. but Health Care Administration is a huge cost. I uderstand that the nuts and bolts of running something like a hospital is a pretty big undertaking, but when most of the big shots have political connections of some sort how much of it is riding the public gravy train.

[Jiggy]

Originally Posted by Reggie Dunlop

Just askin.. but Health Care Administration is a huge cost. I uderstand that the nuts and bolts of running something like a hospital is a pretty big undertaking, but when most of the big shots have political connections of some sort how much of it is riding the public gravy train.

If our health care was not in shambles I could understand him getting a huge salary. It just makes me sick seeing that jackass get paid that much money, yet people think that paramedics are asking for too much.

[Reggie Dunlop]

Originally Posted by Jiggy

If our health care was not in shambles I could understand him getting a huge salary. It just makes me sick seeing that jackass get paid that much money, yet people think that paramedics are asking for too much.

Well, I don't know enough about the feller to say he's a jackass. I guess someone in his position should get compensated about in line with what a CEO should get.

It's stuff like $375,000 paid in "consulting fees" to a former Health Minister's fartcatcher for "political strategy" that steam me. And I know that particular clown.

The whole problem in the Great Public Healthcare clusterfluck is that, paying all the front line folks is a bigger expenditure than giving the Big Shots perks. And the Big Shots control the purse strings. Dunno if it's possible to turn that around. Sorta like draggin' a dead elephant up a flight of stairs.

[flip]

unfortunately due to my last thread "i got jumped" i have no faith in ems so i could give a **** if they go on strike because my limited experience has been terrible.

the last ems guy told me he didn't have a first aid kit!!! and that if i called an ambulence and didnt come with them to the hospital that (and i quote) the ems guy said he'd break my nose himself for wasting his time!!