[Trade] VGK trade Reilly Smith to Pens for 2024 3rd round pick

[The Yen Man]

Maybe he's thinking of Jason Smith.

[Johnny Makarov]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

? No. Smith is a winger, Backlund is a two-way centre. Don't see the similarity.

Any GM who will trade a 1st rounder for Backlund should be instantly fired.

[Harry Lime]

Originally Posted by Johnny Makarov

Any GM who will trade a 1st rounder for Backlund should be instantly fired.

Any GM who will trade a 1st rounder for Backlund at 50% retained will be instantly rehired!

[topfiverecords]

Originally Posted by Bingo

You likely wouldn't be such a target if you didn't try to constant rub everything in ...

If you're right just let it be.

dino loves the attention

[Reggie Dunlop]

Even second rounders are hard to pry away this year.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

Rielly Smith is a really good comparison for Backlund and what we could expect back for him. A 2024 3rd for Backlund sure is a long way off from the first rounders being bounced around.

And if that's the price, you hold onto him. See how it goes at the deadline (or through the season)

[Spurs]

Originally Posted by Flames1217

If you pull the data from the last 5 seasons both players have the same exact ppg (.68)

Toffoli has 244 points throughout that span (358 games played) and Smith has 226 points throughout that span (332 games played)


They are very comparable other than the fact that Smith makes more.

I imagine teams appreciate the actual point production due to playing the games rather than ppg on games that the guys didn't play and didn't help their team.

PPG has more value for younger guys porjecting what they might do going forward, with older guys it shows that Smith has questionable durability and hasn't been able to help his teams as much as Tofolli did. Not surprising looking at that that Toffoli would bring more in.

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

Hall for nothing
Hayes at 50% for a 6th
Smith for a 3rd
Johansen at 50% for nothing
Toffoli for Sharangovich + 3rd

All 5 of those guys are born in 91 or 92. And Toffoli was coming off the best season, with Smith a close second (gets some points for winning a cup) and IMO Toffoli got the best return by far.

Just no market for 30+ year old forwards even if they are only making $4M or so.



Most of that is PP points.

5v5:
Smith: TOI-2417, G-29, P-76
Toffoli: TOI-2571, G-40, P-84

Power Play:
Smith: TOI-381, G-13, P-22
Toffoli: TOI-540, G-25, P-51

So it's more that Toffoli was getting PP1 time in Calgary and Montreal, while Smith was getting PP2 time on a better Vegas team. Toffoli is the better player, but "Much" better would probably be a stretch. And players coming off a cup win generally carry some value too.

So Toffoli is better 5 on 5 and significantly better on the PP and has one more Cup. Is that the basic summary? You could give Smith the exact same PP time and he would not do as well as Toffoli in my opinion, Toffoli is a much better offensive player and his underlying defensive stats are better. We will see this year, Smith will undoubtedly play with a better center than Toffoli ever has, should be a career year if situational play is a significant factor.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

So Toffoli is better 5 on 5 and significantly better on the PP and has one more Cup. Is that the basic summary? You could give Smith the exact same PP time and he would not do as well as Toffoli in my opinion, Toffoli is a much better offensive player and his underlying defensive stats are better. We will see this year, Smith will undoubtedly play with a better center than Toffoli ever has, should be a career year if situational play is a significant factor.

Toffoli is better. I think "much" better is arguable.

And if you look at return...Toffoli returned a player that's probably worth about a 2nd (based on the Colton trade) and a 3rd vs just a 3rd.

So was he worth almost 2x as much...probably not.

In the end it still shows how the market for 30+ year old forwards/wingers is relatively soft.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

And if that's the price, you hold onto him. See how it goes at the deadline (or through the season)

Respectfully disagree. Get rid of guys that don't want to be here. They need to be gone before training camp IMO. Go into the season with a team of guys that want to be here. Clean house and move on.

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

Toffoli is better. I think "much" better is arguable.

And if you look at return...Toffoli returned a player that's probably worth about a 2nd (based on the Colton trade) and a 3rd vs just a 3rd.

So was he worth almost 2x as much...probably not.

In the end it still shows how the market for 30+ year old forwards/wingers is relatively soft.

I don’t actually have a problem with the return, just the idea that these other players are comparable with Toffoli. Any underlying look at the overall players (take JFresh rankings for instance) have Toffoli significantly better overall than any of the other 30+ players that have been traded.

[Spurs]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

Toffoli is better. I think "much" better is arguable.

And if you look at return...Toffoli returned a player that's probably worth about a 2nd (based on the Colton trade) and a 3rd vs just a 3rd.

So was he worth almost 2x as much...probably not.

In the end it still shows how the market for 30+ year old forwards/wingers is relatively soft.

I think that he was worth that much more than Smith based on all the areas he is better in- ability, durability, contract.

But I also think the value we got back was fair for him just would have preferred the actual pick (2nd round) than the player who is perceived to be worth that.

If we got a 2nd (around 37) and a 3rd, I would really like the Toffoli deal while still being a bit disappointed that it wasn't a 1st.

[gvitaly]

Great trade for PIT. I would've loved Reilly Smith on the Flames at that price.

[Enoch Root]

The chances that the 2nd turns into a Sharangovich are fairly remote. As has been pointed out, he is well up the rankings for his draft class.

[Spurs]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

The chances that the 2nd turns into a Sharangovich are fairly remote. As has been pointed out, he is well up the rankings for his draft class.

I don't disagree with that but I think the chances the 2nd round pick has a positive effect on a Flames team that competes for anything is at least as good as Sharangovich and probably higher.

[GioforPM]

I don't know that Smith is guaranteed to play with Malkin or Crosby - they still have Guentzel, Rust, Rakell and Granlund (if he plays wing) and they might bring Zucker back. Plus Carter is still kicking around there.

He certainly will be hard pressed to be on the number one powerplay unit.

[MrMike]

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

Respectfully disagree. Get rid of guys that don't want to be here. They need to be gone before training camp IMO. Go into the season with a team of guys that want to be here. Clean house and move on.

Backlund isn't a guy who doesn't want to be here. He will always be a leader. He's not going to mail it in or be a negative influence. Relationships can be repaired, a season is a long time.