Flames announce prospects camp and Young stars roster

[Robbob]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

My post was also responding to the guy who said there was only one interesting prospect - I was adding to your post. But obviously it didn't come across that way.

Ah okay, that makes sense. all good.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Iggy_12

Ya middling team for the last 20 years with a weak farm system to change that in the future. Glad you enjoy mediocrity, personally I don't believe in second place trophies but you do you pal.

Sorry for the opinion fellas, just don't see our prospect pool as promising as some of you, how many times have we seen good prospects flame out, too many for me, that's why I fail to get excited about anything in our pipeline until we see it at a NHL level. We've had more promising prospects in the past than these guys who failed miserably allow me to throw a few names that were hyped like crazy on this site, Ryan Howse, Sven Baertschi, Jon Gillies, Patrick Sieloff, Emile Porier, Tyler Parsons, Jusso Valimaki, and thats just recent, we can go back further. Again, just my opinion, flame away

111 points is mediocrity now

Flames are one of the best teams in the league, enjoy it for a while instead of dreaming about being in the basement like the Sens/Wings. If they are lucky those rosters will eventually be 111 point teams

[Canada 02]

fitness testing start today?

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

I am not sure this is a factor, is it? Does every prospect on the roster have a contract? I don't believe that Chechelev does.

Little different level of prospect considering he played in the NHL last season. No way he would go without a contract, he won't be at Flames camp without one either

[Royle9]

Hmm maybe for the rookies.
I think its the flames golf tournament today, not sure if any of them take part in that but if they do then likely not.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by dino7c

Little different level of prospect considering he played in the NHL last season. No way he would go without a contract, he won't be at Flames camp without one either

Yeah, that's true. Your last post just had me wondering whether or not players are able to play in the tournament without a contract.

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[Lanny_McDonald]

Flames have a good group of prospects there. Would be nice to have a couple of studs in the mix, but some guys with potential to be very solid support players.

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

People think the Flames' roster is weak when Vancouver's doesn't even feature a single first round pick... smh.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Iggy_12

Ya middling team for the last 20 years with a weak farm system to change that in the future. Glad you enjoy mediocrity, personally I don't believe in second place trophies but you do you pal.

Sorry for the opinion fellas, just don't see our prospect pool as promising as some of you, how many times have we seen good prospects flame out, too many for me, that's why I fail to get excited about anything in our pipeline until we see it at a NHL level. We've had more promising prospects in the past than these guys who failed miserably allow me to throw a few names that were hyped like crazy on this site, Ryan Howse, Sven Baertschi, Jon Gillies, Patrick Sieloff, Emile Porier, Tyler Parsons, Jusso Valimaki, and thats just recent, we can go back further. Again, just my opinion, flame away

Would love to see if there's a difference between "flame away" and "disagree if you want to" as that's all I'm seeing.

Did you honestly think you could just post "this is sad" and "only 1 prospect there" on a Flames fan forum and not get anyone having an opinion that is different?

Other than that it's up to you.

My guide for sanity (I know you're not asking)

1. Don't see things in decades; too many changes to managers and coaches to lump it all in
2. Correlate current roster and standings with prospect pools across the league. Won't help you with that 20 year thing, but if you focus on the now you'll be less distressed about a Penticton roster.
3. Look at the other teams in the tournament. Is there a better team in the tournament? Is there a better team in the current NHL? I haven't done the leg work on the number of college or European players missing for each of the teams but Vancouver and Winnipeg both missed the playoffs last year and should have better prospect pools.

[Iggy_12]

Originally Posted by dino7c

111 points is mediocrity now

Flames are one of the best teams in the league, enjoy it for a while instead of dreaming about being in the basement like the Sens/Wings. If they are lucky those rosters will eventually be 111 point teams

And how did the season end? Why are we just ok with getting to the playoffs and flaming out, been like this for 20 years i don't understand how people can just be so content. I'd much rather have hope to actually compete for a stanley cup with a good future than be a playoff team losing in 5 to the oilers and empty cupboards.

[Iggy_12]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Would love to see if there's a difference between "flame away" and "disagree if you want to" as that's all I'm seeing.

Did you honestly think you could just post "this is sad" and "only 1 prospect there" on a Flames fan forum and not get anyone having an opinion that is different?

Other than that it's up to you.

My guide for sanity (I know you're not asking)

1. Don't see things in decades; too many changes to managers and coaches to lump it all in
2. Correlate current roster and standings with prospect pools across the league. Won't help you with that 20 year thing, but if you focus on the now you'll be less distressed about a Penticton roster.
3. Look at the other teams in the tournament. Is there a better team in the tournament? Is there a better team in the current NHL? I haven't done the leg work on the number of college or European players missing for each of the teams but Vancouver and Winnipeg both missed the playoffs last year and should have better prospect pools.

All fair points. Guess I should have added more context to my "this is sad" post, its brought on some good discussion. I think we have a bottom 10 prospect base (my opinion) I've been on the rebuild train for a while in hopes of improving this and maybe having hopes of winning a cup as opposed to hopes of winning a playoff series. I like what they did in the offseason but i still dont see this as a team that competes with the lightning/Avs of the world (again my opinion) and then seeing what we have in the pipeline there really isnt much hope of any of these guys becoming a franchise player, giving us hope of winning a cup in the future.

I also understand its tough to draft in the back 15 every year which is part of the frustration of always being mediocre!

Anyways i hope im wrong, i hope every kid on that list contributes to the flames pro team, that would be a dream come true, but as per my "Only 1 prospect post" thats how i see it, flames AHL squad hasnt been superb at developing talent at that level sub a few (mang, kylington, rasmus off the top of my head) but we have also seen our fair share of busts.

Comparing this list to the teams in the tournament isnt my objective, i am looking league wide and I think you could easily find 20 teams with a better list, havent put the legwork in so maybe I'm completely out to lunch. Good discussion either way

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Iggy_12

And how did the season end?

Top eight in a 32 team league.

Why are we just ok with getting to the playoffs and flaming out, been like this for 20 years i don't understand how people can just be so content.

The second round in the Stanley Cup playoffs is not nothing. And I think you are misconstruing optimism for content resignation. People are excited about this team, and for good reasons.

I'd much rather have hope to actually compete for a stanley cup with a good future than be a playoff team losing in 5 to the oilers and empty cupboards.

The Flames look to be one of the top teams in the league this season, who will actually compete for a Stanley Cup. To get what you want—a crop of high-end, young, drafted prospects—would, on the contrary, require the team to be incredibly bad for a long time, and in the end is absolutely not certain to yield the positive outcome you hope for.


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[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Iggy_12

And how did the season end? Why are we just ok with getting to the playoffs and flaming out, been like this for 20 years i don't understand how people can just be so content. I'd much rather have hope to actually compete for a stanley cup with a good future than be a playoff team losing in 5 to the oilers and empty cupboards.

1 team of 32 win every season...are you honestly saying the Sens/Wings have a sure cup run coming? If lucky they will be a top 5-10 team with a shot like the Flames currently.

Also incase you didn't notice the current roster is a little different than the one that lost to the Oilers.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by Iggy_12

All fair points. Guess I should have added more context to my "this is sad" post, its brought on some good discussion. I think we have a bottom 10 prospect base (my opinion) I've been on the rebuild train for a while in hopes of improving this and maybe having hopes of winning a cup as opposed to hopes of winning a playoff series. I like what they did in the offseason but i still dont see this as a team that competes with the lightning/Avs of the world (again my opinion) and then seeing what we have in the pipeline there really isnt much hope of any of these guys becoming a franchise player, giving us hope of winning a cup in the future.

I also understand its tough to draft in the back 15 every year which is part of the frustration of always being mediocre!

Anyways i hope im wrong, i hope every kid on that list contributes to the flames pro team, that would be a dream come true, but as per my "Only 1 prospect post" thats how i see it, flames AHL squad hasnt been superb at developing talent at that level sub a few (mang, kylington, rasmus off the top of my head) but we have also seen our fair share of busts.

Comparing this list to the teams in the tournament isnt my objective, i am looking league wide and I think you could easily find 20 teams with a better list, havent put the legwork in so maybe I'm completely out to lunch. Good discussion either way

I don't disagree that they are in the bottom third of the league, but that is because they are trying to win now. And you can disagree with that and want them to re-build but at what point do you just accept that's not their approach and focus more on how they are executing their strategy to win now.

If you compare the Flames to other teams who are also in a "contend now" window you will find that they have a very comparable group.

My evaluation of the Flames prospect base is that they have 4 interesting prospects but probably none with "top line" upside. Of that 4, Coronato and Wolf could emerge to be more impactful.

I think then there is a list of intriguing names that sits below with high potential. Chances are most of those aren't going to be players. If one or two hit, you are thrilled. For me those are guys like Kerins, Poirier and maybe Beck.

Then you have a group of low ceiling, high floor guys: Ruzicka, Mackey, Schwindt.

Then you have X factors: Juuso, Philips (likely gone out of the organization this year no matter what).

And I bet if you look across other "win now" organizations you'll find it to be very similar.

Predicting that most prospects will fail will probably mean you are "right" because most do. But it's not really fun.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Iggy_12

And how did the season end? Why are we just ok with getting to the playoffs and flaming out, been like this for 20 years i don't understand how people can just be so content. I'd much rather have hope to actually compete for a stanley cup with a good future than be a playoff team losing in 5 to the oilers and empty cupboards.

Who is okay with 'just getting into the playoffs'? Who is 'content'?

Why must the 2022 prospect roster be held accountable for the record of the current Flame team?

Why do any of these questions justify being miserable about all things Flames?

[Iggy_12]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

Top eight in a 32 team league.


The second round in the Stanley Cup playoffs is not nothing. And I think you are misconstruing optimism for content resignation. People are excited about this team, and for good reasons.


The Flames look to be one of the top teams in the league this season, who will actually compete for a Stanley Cup. To get what you want—a crop of high-end, young, drafted prospects—would, on the contrary, require the team to be incredibly bad for a long time, and in the end is absolutely not certain to yield the positive outcome you hope for.


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Maybe my expectations/reality are skewed, personally top 8 with a 5 game loss to the grease does nothing for me, a wasted season in my books.

I do agree that the flames roster today appears to be a top 10 team in the NHL again this season, however, I still don't see the ability to eventually compete and win a 7 game series against the Avs/Lightning so again making the second round again and losing doesn't excite me.

As it stands I don't see this team as a Stanley Cup contender. I think they are a good team, a top 10 maybe even top 8 but its Stanley cup or bust for a franchise thats toiled in mediocrity basically since 1994. The second round just doesnt do it for me. Im not saying Ottawa and Detroit have guaranteed themselves a cup either, but at least they have some hope and potential. Calgary is win now with a bleak prospect base and I dont think the team can win now so basically we have a good team to watch that, in my opinion, will never get over the hump.

Again I hope I am dead wrong on both the current team and future prospects, I'm just not seeing it on either front right now.

[Iggy_12]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

I don't disagree that they are in the bottom third of the league, but that is because they are trying to win now. And you can disagree with that and want them to re-build but at what point do you just accept that's not their approach and focus more on how they are executing their strategy to win now.

If you compare the Flames to other teams who are also in a "contend now" window you will find that they have a very comparable group.

My evaluation of the Flames prospect base is that they have 4 interesting prospects but probably none with "top line" upside. Of that 4, Coronato and Wolf could emerge to be more impactful.

I think then there is a list of intriguing names that sits below with high potential. Chances are most of those aren't going to be players. If one or two hit, you are thrilled. For me those are guys like Kerins, Poirier and maybe Beck.

Then you have a group of low ceiling, high floor guys: Ruzicka, Mackey, Schwindt.

Then you have X factors: Juuso, Philips (likely gone out of the organization this year no matter what).

And I bet if you look across other "win now" organizations you'll find it to be very similar.

Predicting that most prospects will fail will probably mean you are "right" because most do. But it's not really fun.

This is a really great post, summarizes the prospects almost perfectly. I hope you are right on the below high potential guys, if one of them can make a big impact and be a top 6 forward or top 4 dman it helps a lot.

I have high hopes for Coronato with concerns of signing him so im tempering my expectations there. I think Pelletier is an every day NHLer, (Hopefully top 6). I simply cannot get excited about Dustin Wolf with the history of flames goalie development, that list is absolutely endless dating back to Brent Krahn and Leeland Irving and more recently with Mason Macdonald, Tyler Parsons and Jon Gillies. I want to believe that Wolf is different but he has an uphill battle despite all his success in the AHL and WHL with his size. I hope he bucks the trend.

You're 100% right about predicting failure it isn't fun, but expecting any of these guys to help the big club and then flaming out also sucks, ive been wrapped up in hype before just to be let down. I'm like a scorned girlfriend with a fool me once mentality

[FBI]

Originally Posted by Iggy_12

All fair points. Guess I should have added more context to my "this is sad" post, its brought on some good discussion. I think we have a bottom 10 prospect base (my opinion) I've been on the rebuild train for a while in hopes of improving this and maybe having hopes of winning a cup as opposed to hopes of winning a playoff series. I like what they did in the offseason but i still dont see this as a team that competes with the lightning/Avs of the world (again my opinion) and then seeing what we have in the pipeline there really isnt much hope of any of these guys becoming a franchise player, giving us hope of winning a cup in the future.

I also understand its tough to draft in the back 15 every year which is part of the frustration of always being mediocre!

Anyways i hope im wrong, i hope every kid on that list contributes to the flames pro team, that would be a dream come true, but as per my "Only 1 prospect post" thats how i see it, flames AHL squad hasnt been superb at developing talent at that level sub a few (mang, kylington, rasmus off the top of my head) but we have also seen our fair share of busts.

Comparing this list to the teams in the tournament isnt my objective, i am looking league wide and I think you could easily find 20 teams with a better list, havent put the legwork in so maybe I'm completely out to lunch. Good discussion either way

One of the bust guys you wrote (Baertschi) got us one of those good NHL players..

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Iggy_12

I have high hopes for Coronato with concerns of signing him so im tempering my expectations there. I think Pelletier is an every day NHLer, (Hopefully top 6). I simply cannot get excited about Dustin Wolf with the history of flames goalie development, that list is absolutely endless dating back to Brent Krahn and Leeland Irving and more recently with Mason Macdonald, Tyler Parsons and Jon Gillies. I want to believe that Wolf is different but he has an uphill battle despite all his success in the AHL and WHL with his size. I hope he bucks the trend.

I think where Coronato is in his development points to the Flames having little trouble signing him.

He's not good enough to force their hand.
He's not poor enough to play out his four years as Harvard.

He'll sign.

And then if one wants to fear all US players leaving it's contract two where things could go sideways.

[Iggy_12]

Originally Posted by FBI

One of the bust guys you wrote (Baertschi) got us one of those good NHL players..

Didn't he force his way out or am i remembering that wrong? Andersson is fantastic and a rare AHL development need more of those shrewd picks!