Anyone see Kanye West

[Patek23]

Originally posted by steveo+Sep 3 2005, 01:06 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (steveo @ Sep 3 2005, 01:06 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>

I don't give a fata what his motivation was, it wasn't the right place to do it... you CANNOT disagree with that. A fundraiser to help these people in poverty isn't the place to do it. Nothing anyone can say will convince me otherwise.

His comments may have been from the heart and accurate to a point, but that doesn't excuse what happened.

Even Chris Tucker (A black man) looked disgusted.

You speak like you wouldn't say anything liek that if you were in his shoes.

did Chris Tucker look disgusted, or suprised? [/b][/quote]
He looked surprised but he didn't look like he disagreed, just like wow that dude has balls to go againts what was on the teleprompter.

[Pagal4321]

Can we really sit here an argue about what Chris Tucker's reaction was....That should have no basis whatsoever, until we know what he said after the video cut off.
Jordan, How is this not the place to address his conerns. On national television about afundraiser where there's been a huge disastor. And the government has been oddly slow to react to help, what is, a ravaged moslty black community.
Everyone has their opinion and I agree they should be voiced at the right time and place, but don't see how that wasn't the right time or place.

[steveo]

Originally posted by Flaming Homer+Sep 3 2005, 01:23 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Flaming Homer @ Sep 3 2005, 01:23 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>

You speak like you wouldn't say anything liek that if you were in his shoes.

did Chris Tucker look disgusted, or suprised?

He looked surprised but he didn't look like he disagreed, just like wow that dude has balls to go againts what was on the teleprompter. [/b][/quote]
Thats what I kinda meant, I mean imo he didn' tlook like he was disgusted. more of a suprised reaction because he never thought someone would actually have the guts to say what they think on TV like that.

[InTheSlot]

Originally posted by nfotiu+Sep 2 2005, 10:49 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (nfotiu @ Sep 2 2005, 10:49 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>

Exactly. And NOBODY should notice the color.

I don't know about where you live DFF, but here in the South, race is very much a part of who you are. In my city, the communities are seperate, the schools are seperate, the type of jobs they take are seperate, the accents are very different, the social events in the city are completely segregated, you name it. There are 2 very different cultures living completely seperately. It is something people who don't live here can't understand really. And really no one on either side is putting much of an effort to change it.

The people are treated differently by all levels of authority. I have no doubt that in a disaster here, the police would think of the blacks as looters, and the whites as taking what they needed. I have no doubt that a crisis in a middle class white neighbourhood would be treated much differently than one in a poor black neighbourhood. There are some black people who put a good deal of efforts to disassociate themselves from the stigma their skin colour bears around here. The level of segregration in the south would shock many from the north, and it is completely fair to be suspicious if they are being treated differently because the are poor black people from the south. It's not just skin colour, it's their community that gets treated poorly. [/b][/quote]
Hey, you should probably keep your comments to yourself.

I live even further South than you do, the most Southern state in the U.S. to be exact, Florida. Of course racism exists, and it will always exist thanks to some idiots out there, but this isn't the 1960s anymore. I dunno about you but here in Florida we don't have seperate drinking fountains for colors, nor seperate busses, schools, institutions, etc. Hate crimes isn't something that makes the news on a daily basis, maybe not even weekly.


As for Kanye's comments, both my father and I couldn't believe it. That was one of the dumbest things I've ever heard. I used to have respect for the guy because of some of the things he wrote his songs about, but now I can't help but think it was all BS.

[Hakan]

Good for Kanye. He was making a statement about institutional racism IMO. Which, InTheSlot, is still very much alive and well today. Sure the days of white robe wearing freaks is not as prevalent but insidious and more invisible racism happens all the time in the United States and Canada.

I recommend the book, The World is a Ghetto by Howard Winant to illustrate the point of how race and racism is still as important now as it ever was.

[InTheSlot]

Originally posted by Hakan@Sep 3 2005, 01:58 PM
Good for Kanye. He was making a statement about institutional racism IMO. Which, InTheSlot, is still very much alive and well today. Sure the days of white robe wearing freaks is not as prevalent but insidious and more invisible racism happens all the time in the United States and Canada.

I recommend the book, The World is a Ghetto by Howard Winant to illustrate the point of how race and racism is still as important now as it ever was.

I'm not denying that it doesn't exist by any means, but I really do think people are blowing it out of proportion. There are some people out there who can't, and probably will never be able to get color out of their minds and look at people as mere individuals, rather than by race.

[transplant99]

It was the wrong time and place to make such comments if it meant that there even one single donation withheld because of it....which i have to believe did occur. Dude has every right to his opinion, but he doesnt have the right to announce it on national TV when the event is to raise money for victims of a hurricane...unless its olny the black victims he is worrying about.

Just an FYI as to the amount of blacks vs whites so many are pointing out as those still in NO..

New Orleans has a 67% black population...biggest majority among any major metro area IIRC. It would go to reason therefor that the majority of those trapped were also black, though i have no idea what % of what races were the ones left behind when this thing happened.

[Pagal4321]

Originally posted by InTheSlot+Sep 3 2005, 03:06 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (InTheSlot @ Sep 3 2005, 03:06 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Hakan@Sep 3 2005, 01:58 PM
Good for Kanye. He was making a statement about institutional racism IMO. Which, InTheSlot, is still very much alive and well today. Sure the days of white robe wearing freaks is not as prevalent but insidious and more invisible racism happens all the time in the United States and Canada.

I recommend the book, The World is a Ghetto by Howard Winant to illustrate the point of how race and racism is still as important now as it ever was.

I'm not denying that it doesn't exist by any means, but I really do think people are blowing it out of proportion. There are some people out there who can't, and probably will never be able to get color out of their minds and look at people as mere individuals, rather than by race. [/b][/quote]
So does that mean you don't think it applies in this particular situation (ie. katrina releif)?

[InTheSlot]

Originally posted by Pagal4321+Sep 3 2005, 02:13 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Pagal4321 @ Sep 3 2005, 02:13 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>

I'm not denying that it doesn't exist by any means, but I really do think people are blowing it out of proportion. There are some people out there who can't, and probably will never be able to get color out of their minds and look at people as mere individuals, rather than by race.

So does that mean you don't think it applies in this particular situation (ie. katrina releif)? [/b][/quote]
That's exactly right.

Are you seriously going to sit there and tell me you believe the National Guard is going in there and saving a white person from a flood before a black person from a flood? Get real.

[Hakan]

InTheSlot, it's about institutional racism. Why are the vast majority of desperate people in the pictures in NO black? Certainly it isn't a white conspiracy but a whole system of racism which disadvantages blacks and disproportionately endures them to poverty.

Here's a definiton from Wikipedia:

Institutional racism is distinguished from the bigotry or racial bias of individuals by the existence of systemic, pervasive and habitual policies and practices that have the effect of disadvantaging certain racial or ethnic groups. Race-based discrimination in housing, employment, education and bank lending (see redlining), for example, are all forms of institutional racism.

As you can see individual racism may be, on the surface, declining but the barriers to blacks are just as prevalent and in a time of catastrophe they are disproportionately affected. Kanye's statement just reinforces his belief that, while not a conscious 'racist' decision by GW Bush, he still is operating in an institution and a society where systemic racism is a pillar.

[InTheSlot]

Originally posted by Hakan@Sep 3 2005, 02:37 PM
InTheSlot, it's about institutional racism. Why are the vast majority of desperate people in the pictures in NO black? Certainly it isn't a white conspiracy but a whole system of racism which disadvantages blacks and disproportionately endures them to poverty.

Here's a definiton from Wikipedia:

Institutional racism is distinguished from the bigotry or racial bias of individuals by the existence of systemic, pervasive and habitual policies and practices that have the effect of disadvantaging certain racial or ethnic groups. Race-based discrimination in housing, employment, education and bank lending (see redlining), for example, are all forms of institutional racism.

As you can see individual racism may be, on the surface, declining but the barriers to blacks are just as prevalent and in a time of catastrophe they are disproportionately affected. Kanye's statement just reinforces his belief that, while not a conscious 'racist' decision by GW Bush, he still is operating in an institution and a society where systemic racism is a pillar.

Uh, dude, 90% of New Orleans is black. THAT is why basically 90% of the people shown suffering on the news are black.

[Patek23]

Originally posted by InTheSlot+Sep 3 2005, 02:41 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (InTheSlot @ Sep 3 2005, 02:41 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Hakan@Sep 3 2005, 02:37 PM
InTheSlot, it's about institutional racism. Why are the vast majority of desperate people in the pictures in NO black? Certainly it isn't a white conspiracy but a whole system of racism which disadvantages blacks and disproportionately endures them to poverty.

Here's a definiton from Wikipedia:

Institutional racism is distinguished from the bigotry or racial bias of individuals by the existence of systemic, pervasive and habitual policies and practices that have the effect of disadvantaging certain racial or ethnic groups. Race-based discrimination in housing, employment, education and bank lending (see redlining), for example, are all forms of institutional racism.

As you can see individual racism may be, on the surface, declining but the barriers to blacks are just as prevalent and in a time of catastrophe they are disproportionately affected. Kanye's statement just reinforces his belief that, while not a conscious 'racist' decision by GW Bush, he still is operating in an institution and a society where systemic racism is a pillar.

Uh, dude, 90% of New Orleans is black. THAT is why basically 90% of the people shown suffering on the news are black. [/b][/quote]
68% of NO is black, 90% of the people that are suffering are black, that's the problem.

[Winsor_Pilates]

Originally posted by Hakan@Sep 3 2005, 01:58 PM
Good for Kanye. He was making a statement about institutional racism IMO. Which, InTheSlot, is still very much alive and well today.

Exactly.
It's not like Kanye was just p*ssed off at the relief efforts. This is just another example showcasing the desperate povery that so many black Americans live in. Kanye's comments came after a life time of seeing this, not just a few CNN clips of NO.
Everyday in the US, poverty stricken communities of mostly minorities, are largely forgotten about by the majority and their governments.
If the US government really cared about these people, they would have recieved help long before any hurricane hit.
If no one cared about them b4 the hurricane, why is so hard to believe that no one cares now?

Is Bush a racist? Well he has turned the other cheek to huge population of his people who live in extreme poverty and are mostly black.
He also did have it arranged so that a large community of them in Florida could not vote in his first election.
Do these things make his racist? Maybe, maybe not, but they certainly don't scream out "I care about black people."

While Kanye's wording may not have been the best, his thoughts and intentions are very valid.

[steveo]

Originally posted by Flaming Homer+Sep 3 2005, 02:53 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Flaming Homer @ Sep 3 2005, 02:53 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>

Uh, dude, 90% of New Orleans is black. THAT is why basically 90% of the people shown suffering on the news are black.

68% of NO is black, 90% of the people that are suffering are black, that's the problem. [/b][/quote]
exactly. poverty is a HUGE concern. out of all the peopel who were able to leave it was because they have the MONEY to do so.

[daaznfob]

Longer clip

Whats the diffrence?

[Patek23]

I'm sorry, but the look on Chris Tuckers face is even more priceless than Mike Myers.


He's got the biggest WTF just happened look in history.

[InTheSlot]

Originally posted by Flaming Homer+Sep 3 2005, 02:53 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Flaming Homer @ Sep 3 2005, 02:53 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>

Uh, dude, 90% of New Orleans is black. THAT is why basically 90% of the people shown suffering on the news are black.

68% of NO is black, 90% of the people that are suffering are black, that's the problem. [/b][/quote]
It's higher than 68% I believe, I was just throwing out 90 as a number to insinuate that the "vast majority" or New Oreleans, as you put it, are indeed black. Therefore, it only makes sense that the vast majority shown on the news are black. That's just numbers and odds.


About having the "money" to leave...first off it doesn't take a whole lot of cash to stay in a motel for a few days, or catch a bus or train to safer grounds. However, given the exception of some extremely poor people living in the city with virtually no money whatsoever, if this hurricane didn't kill them, starvation and/or dehydration would've. I know that might sound cruel, and I don't mean it to be, but the sad truth of it is there just wasn't much that cuold've been done. People can complain all they want about inadequate procedures and precautions taken before this hurricane and many other natural diasters hit, but no one is perfect, and we can never protect ourselves enough.


Bottom line is, I'm still a firm believer that, had one of the four hurricanes that passed by Florida last year hit me, or even this hurricane Katrina hit me, my country and its people would be there to help me within a reasonable time period. I'm smart enough to know that there were thousands of people in the same position as me suffering from the disaster, and it takes time to get supplies in, and help each individual. I would passed and extremely upset of course, and with reason, but I wouldn't stoop to the level of looting, rioting, shooting down law enforcement, and what have you. That's my 2 cents. If you disagree feel free to express some more views, I'll be interested in reading them, but I don't respond until later becuase I am going to get a bite to eat.

It's been nice discussing with you though, and I appreciate you listening to my opinion without flame.

[moon]

Kanye West once again shows why these fundraisers can be helpful but at the same time give a platform for idiots to spout off their personal views when the main focus should be given to bringing relief to these people.


Whinning about bogus racism charges isn't going to help drum up support from people who you are implying are either racist themselves or are racist by supporting the institutional racism that supposedly existws accross the US.

Why is it that people need some sort of reason as to why they are poor other than the fact that they don't have marketable skills, don't have a strong work ethic, don't have education etc.? Black people are poor just like white people are poor because they lask the skills, knowledge, ethic, desire to go out and earn money. Might some of the reasons be because they have a lack of access to get these abilities? For some sure but it is equally lacking across the board, White, Black, hispanic etc.

In todays age any racism that exists towards Black is certtainly counteracted by racism held by those within the Black community and in opportuniteis that they are specifically given that Whites are not eligible to recieve.

[Patek23]

68% is from the New Orleans cencus, I can't find the link but If I do I'll post it.


but truthfully there are more than 68% of the population there that are black suffering, thats where the racism comes into question. Sure there could be some other reason, but racism is the one that comes to mind.

[Winsor_Pilates]

Originally posted by daaznfob@Sep 3 2005, 03:06 PM
Longer clip

Whats the diffrence?

Quoted for truth