October 6 - So it Begins - The Alberta Teacher Strike

[Calgary14]

So teachers are being forced back next week with no new agreement? All the things they were asking for - what happens from a legal perspective, they just continue to work with no agreement in place?

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Calgary14

So teachers are being forced back next week with no new agreement? All the things they were asking for - what happens from a legal perspective, they just continue to work with no agreement in place?

[The Fisher Account]

Originally Posted by Calgary14

So teachers are being forced back next week with no new agreement? All the things they were asking for - what happens from a legal perspective, they just continue to work with no agreement in place?

Probably wrong because I keep hearing something new each day, but I THINK:

Scenario 1: The government passes back-to-work legislation without the Notwithstanding Clause, forcing teachers to return under the terms of their expired contract while a new agreement is negotiated or arbitrated — a move that can still be challenged in court and prolong uncertainty.

Scenario 2: The government uses the Notwithstanding Clause to compel a return to work and impose or arbitrate new contract terms, making the settlement legally durable but likely deepening labour tensions and damaging long-term trust.

[Point Blank]

Originally Posted by Calgary14

So teachers are being forced back next week with no new agreement? All the things they were asking for - what happens from a legal perspective, they just continue to work with no agreement in place?

Speculation, but I think part of Bill 2 will be a legislated settlement. So it’ll be the same deal that was rejected- 12% over 4 years and nothing to address class size caps or complexity. The union can legally challenge this but it will take years and over time, they’d hope that people just forget about it.

They could prevent a legal challenge by invoking the notwithstanding clause, which then will prevent any legal challenges for 5 years, but this is the nuclear option and I’m not sure a prudent government will go this route…but we are talking about the UCP here.

The teachers’ response could be the following:
- defy the legislation, but there could be heavy penalties
- work to rule- only stay bell to bell. So no extracurriculars, tutorial times, etc. this will make the work of a teacher more manageable, but I think Danielle wants this just to further contrast the services offered between public (no extracurriculars) and private (with extracurriculars)
- coordinate with other unions for a general strike, which is not legal and can also cause heavy penalties for those striking

So all things considered, I think that the government has the upper hand here. The only thing I think they care about is public pressure that results in change in voter habits, which I don’t think will change enough to put them out of power.

[The Big Chill]

At least we know that if the gov’t does force a deal through that we’ve got a whole trucker convoy of people ready to stand up and fight for our rights. They’ll never let a government tell us what to do!

[Point Blank]

Originally Posted by The Big Chill

At least we know that if the gov’t does force a deal through that we’ve got a whole trucker convoy of people ready to stand up and fight for our rights. They’ll never let a government tell us what to do!

Maybe if we tell them it’s Carney causing this unrest in his agenda to ensure kids stay out of school so they can get vaccinated.

[MrButtons]

For those teachers out there, i had heard that a major issue is the capacity of schools, and that some classes are being held in lunchrooms, gyms, libraries, etc. and I'm curious how we solve that problem while tackling classroom size/complexity? Obviously building more space is the easy fix but that takes time; and I can imagine the government will never concede that point.

PS - I can't figure out a way to phrase this in a way that isn't condescending, but it is a genuine question!

[The Big Chill]

Well short term they could add two teachers to a room or add budget for EAs. Medium and long term they need to build schools. The population isn’t going to stop growing.

Another cool idea would be if they could ever come up with some of their own ideas instead of simply saying it’s up to the ATA to make all the offers.

[Point Blank]

Originally Posted by MrButtons

For those teachers out there, i had heard that a major issue is the capacity of schools, and that some classes are being held in lunchrooms, gyms, libraries, etc. and I'm curious how we solve that problem while tackling classroom size/complexity? Obviously building more space is the easy fix but that takes time; and I can imagine the government will never concede that point.

PS - I can't figure out a way to phrase this in a way that isn't condescending, but it is a genuine question!

I think that’s why the ATA has proposed a phased plan for classroom caps. Give the government time to build the infrastructure to support enrollment growth. Putting in more portables isn’t great but it’ll be a better than nothing.

And before anyone says it, yes the government can afford this. The $30 a day for families could have built:
- 4 elementary schools OR
- 2 or 3 junior high schools OR
- 1 high school

I’m honestly okay with caps that are slower than what the ATA had proposed, I just want the government to commit to building the necessary infrastructure first.

[MrButtons]

Originally Posted by Point Blank

I think that’s why the ATA has proposed a phased plan for classroom caps. Give the government time to build the infrastructure to support enrollment growth. Putting in more portables isn’t great but it’ll be a better than nothing.

And before anyone says it, yes the government can afford this. The $30 a day for families could have built:
- 4 elementary schools OR
- 2 or 3 junior high schools OR
- 1 high school

I’m honestly okay with caps that are slower than what the ATA had proposed, I just want the government to commit to building the necessary infrastructure first.

Ah okay ye that's what I figured and I agree. That's where the gov is losing me (although I was already gone). It's one thing to come together to commit to a plan that builds infrastructure while lowering classroom sizes over the short-medium term. It can't all happen at once, the ATA isn't even asking it to happen at once, and it seems like a win win for both groups since the government can increase spending over time. You can set targets out and build the infrastructure plan accordingly. But right now it's just "nope."

It makes sense to me to work in lockstep, but instead let's use money to put ads out stating why this is such a good deal bEcAuSe iTs A 12% rAiSe

[The Fisher Account]

The whole “we can’t build school fast enough” argument is such BS.

They have chronically underfunded our education system PURPOSELY and are now throwing their hands up saying it’s impossible like this is something that just happened recently. The reason we don’t have enough schools is because of them!

[puffnstuff]

They are doing to education what theyve been doing to healthcare. Underfund public, fund private and then point at private as an example that it works.

[Ashartus]

Originally Posted by puffnstuff

They are doing to education what theyve been doing to healthcare. Underfund public, fund private and then point at private as an example that it works.

Smith has been promoting privatized health and education for many years, is taking action to move that direction, and some people still don't see that this is what she is trying to do.

[fotze2]

Originally Posted by flamingreen

Elementary is dire. Huge classes, lots of complexity, no time with the the absurd Grade 1-3 testing. The new curriculum and PAT is just the cherry on top.

I had to console the grade 6 teacher at my school last year for an hour after the math PAT. I've never seen her so upset. She spent the entire year not only teaching the curriculum but teaching her class how to take the test (i.e., is my answer to the question 'logically' correct) - and they absolutely bombed it.

I think these stories, people need to hear about more.

[malcolmk14]

Gil McGowan, President of the Alberta Federation of Labour:

BREAKING: Alberta unions warn Premier Danielle Smith: unprecedented use of the Notwithstanding Clause against workers will result in an unprecedented response from unions in defence of worker rights.

At an emergency meeting held today at 5:00pm (MT), the Common Front, an umbrella group for all Alberta unions, leaders unanimously endorsed the following message to Premier Danielle Smith.

Dear Premier Smith,

On behalf of the more than 350,000 working Albertans who we represent, we urge you, in the strongest possible terms, to rule out the use of the Notwithstanding Clause as part of your government’s approach to the teachers’ strike. Invoking the clause would be unprecedented in the history of Canadian labour relations. It would also escalate the situation from a confrontation between your government and the teachers to a confrontation between you and the entire Canadian labour movement. If governments start using the Notwithstanding Clause as a tool in their dealings with workers and unions, it will make a mockery of the constitutionally protected right to strike. Without a robust and reliable right to strike, worker bargaining power will be eroded, and with it, the wages and living standards of all Canadian workers. If you take this unprecedented approach, we will have no choice but to mobilize an unprecedented response. There are many avenues your government could pursue to negotiate with public sector unions that do not involve invoking the Notwithstanding Clause. We urge you to choose them.

Signed by all the unions of the Alberta Federation of Labour and the Alberta Common Front

[OldDutch]

I’m torn on this one. I am firmly behind the teachers. They deserve better conditions and pay, no doubt. Yet going into week 4 it seems like a stalemate with my son back to COVID era for round 2.

My oldest I had to put in private. Its expensive as heck, but in grade 6 it was a toal disaster. He’s gifted ADHD, a very good kid, but struggles without extra help. It was non existent in Public. Which to be clear is not fully the teachers fault (didn’t help she was very mediocre to begin with).

I hope there is a fair and impartial mediation. Look at other provinces, align with what is fair in Canada. If that costs the taxpayers of which I only have 1/2 using that, totally fine.

I want this fixed for the next round of parents who don’t have my means. My choice was a fancy new car or private. I know lots it’s not an option. That is wrong.

Teachers on here know the way you have been treated is a voting issue for me. Its all I can control, but I am here to support fully even if you lose this battle.

[Point Blank]

Originally Posted by OldDutch

I’m torn on this one. I am firmly behind the teachers. They deserve better conditions and pay, no doubt. Yet going into week 4 it seems like a stalemate with my son back to COVID era for round 2.

My oldest I had to put in private. Its expensive as heck, but in grade 6 it was a toal disaster. He’s gifted ADHD, a very good kid, but struggles without extra help. It was non existent in Public. Which to be clear is not fully the teachers fault (didn’t help she was very mediocre to begin with).

I hope there is a fair and impartial mediation. Look at other provinces, align with what is fair in Canada. If that costs the taxpayers of which I only have 1/2 using that, totally fine.

I want this fixed for the next round of parents who don’t have my means. My choice was a fancy new car or private. I know lots it’s not an option. That is wrong.

Teachers on here know the way you have been treated is a voting issue for me. Its all I can control, but I am here to support fully even if you lose this battle.

Thanks for sharing this story and I’m very sorry this happened to your son. Hope he’s doing better. I appreciate that despite your experience, you’re still taking a stance to support equitable access to good education.

[Ashartus]

Originally Posted by OldDutch

I’m torn on this one. I am firmly behind the teachers. They deserve better conditions and pay, no doubt. Yet going into week 4 it seems like a stalemate with my son back to COVID era for round 2.

My oldest I had to put in private. Its expensive as heck, but in grade 6 it was a toal disaster. He’s gifted ADHD, a very good kid, but struggles without extra help. It was non existent in Public. Which to be clear is not fully the teachers fault (didn’t help she was very mediocre to begin with).

I hope there is a fair and impartial mediation. Look at other provinces, align with what is fair in Canada. If that costs the taxpayers of which I only have 1/2 using that, totally fine.

I want this fixed for the next round of parents who don’t have my means. My choice was a fancy new car or private. I know lots it’s not an option. That is wrong.

Teachers on here know the way you have been treated is a voting issue for me. Its all I can control, but I am here to support fully even if you lose this battle.

I know others in your situation and that's why I'm OK with some funding to private schools - really a better choice would be to fix the public system so kids like that could get the support they need but that would not be a short fix even if the government was willing (and they are not).

However the government have been pretty clear that they won't allow any arbitration to include class size/complexity which is the main issue. They still haven't responded to the latest ATA offer even, and apparently their negotiators say they aren't available to come back to the table right now (despite Smith's claims about possibility of settling before Monday). So in the end students will have lost 3+ weeks of school and none of the main problems will have been addressed. This is fully on the UCP.

[iggy_oi]

Originally Posted by Ashartus

I know others in your situation and that's why I'm OK with some funding to private schools - really a better choice would be to fix the public system so kids like that could get the support they need but that would not be a short fix even if the government was willing (and they are not).

Funding private schools takes money away from funding for public schools. If private schools can operate profitably without public assistance and produce good results on their own then great. If they can’t then there is no reason to be using tax dollars to fund them.

However the government have been pretty clear that they won't allow any arbitration to include class size/complexity which is the main issue. They still haven't responded to the latest ATA offer even, and apparently their negotiators say they aren't available to come back to the table right now (despite Smith's claims about possibility of settling before Monday). So in the end students will have lost 3+ weeks of school and none of the main problems will have been addressed. This is fully on the UCP.

Anyone with any experience in collective bargaining arbitrations will tell you that the government are just posturing here to make it look like they’re in charge. Even if the government didn’t make that manipulative threat the chance of an arbitrator making systemic changes to how a business operates are slim to none. The arbitrator will likely award teachers more money with no other major changes and the UCP knowing this are essentially setting the teachers up to look like they were being greedy and didn’t really care about class sizes.

[malcolmk14]

I don't think they'll leave anything to chance with arbitration. I think they'll impose a contract "for stability".