Civilization vs. Age of Empires

[dobbles]

Originally Posted by the lemming

I've played a fair amount of AoE but never played any of the Civ series. This thread has me curious though. I was in Future Shop the other day and noticed that they had Civ III for $10. Is it worth picking this up to try or would I be better off going with Civ IV? Also has anyone tried the Civ for PS3? I'm curious if that would be any good. To me these type of games are more suited to a PC.

Thanks.

civ3 is definitely worth the money. but make sure you get civ3 complete. its generally pretty cheap and includes the expansions for civ3 that came out. its not the most graphically appealling game, but so much strategy in it. there is still a large active community creating mods and custom content.

it can be a cheaper way to try out civ. though i am not sure what civ4 is down to price wise now.

[QuadCityImages]

Or you could just go all out and get Civilization Chronicles, which includes Civ3 Complete, Civ4, and Civ1 and Civ2 and a DVD and posters and a book AND a Civilization card game! After years of not acquiring each of the Civs in a legal fashion, I bought this out of a combination of guilt and wanting to play online. And for the card game.

[Titan]

Originally Posted by QuadCityImages

Or you could just go all out and get Civilization Chronicles, which includes Civ3 Complete, Civ4, and Civ1 and Civ2 and a DVD and posters and a book AND a Civilization card game! After years of not acquiring each of the Civs in a legal fashion, I bought this out of a combination of guilt and wanting to play online. And for the card game.

Scene: My House

Act 1: I walk in and say "Hey, wife, guess what I bought today?" She says "what", I say "Civ Chronicles it is all the Civ games in one."

Act 2: We are now divorced.

The end.

[Teh_Bandwagoner]

The Civilization series... my joy... my bane. I still remember the first time I played. It was probably in Grade 9. I clearly remember my very first game. Start with a settler, built a City. Started building another settler. City destroyed by a barbarian. End of game By the end I had figured out how to use settlers to block the growth of non-enemy towns lol.

Civ 4 is great because it eliminates a majority of the non-useful repetitive tasks that plagued the first three making the games infinitely less tedious. AND they got rid of corruption. Awesome.

[ShaolinFlame]

Originally Posted by Teh_Bandwagoner

The Civilization series... my joy... my bane. I still remember the first time I played. It was probably in Grade 9. I clearly remember my very first game. Start with a settler, built a City. Started building another settler. City destroyed by a barbarian. End of game By the end I had figured out how to use settlers to block the growth of non-enemy towns lol.

Civ 4 is great because it eliminates a majority of the non-useful repetitive tasks that plagued the first three making the games infinitely less tedious. AND they got rid of corruption. Awesome.

Civ 4 is great because it really does create a lot of potential strategies, moreso than the first three. Specialist v Town economies. Hell you can have a trade economy. I want to try an espionage economy - only getting techs through espionage. Warfare is a lot better in C4 as well (Civ3 was just super bombard if I remember correctly).

I also want to try a one city challenge.

Every game I have ever played I have gotten bored of after a month, and when I do, I go back to playing Civ. If it weren't for Civ I probably wouldn't even play video games. It hurts to think about all of the crap I would have accomplished had I not played one more turn.

[QuadCityImages]

My strategy generally revolves around discovering as many religions as possible, building their appropriate shrines, getting to Free Religion, and then building tons of Missionaries. It gets you tons of gold and more importantly culture, which I then use to absorb enemies without even attacking them.

[CaptainCrunch]

I used to build a hundreds of cities, I had one settler that was just there to build irrigation and roads so I would never run out of food. I would focus on my economy, but I would build cities so that they would just be research centers.

I always focuses on my military technologies so that I could build a massive navy with bombers and missile submarines. Then I would do my manhatten project, build some missiles, and I would smite my enemies with a bloodlust never seen before. I would unleash thousands of missiles destroying every city I could find. why build tanks when you can build nukes.

The best part was watching the environment die.

[mykalberta]

I cant comment as I havent played the Age of Empires.

But civ is great, also if you are looking more battles, less city building you can try the total war series. Rome and Shogun are great. I own medevil but have never played it.

My first Civ experience was the following.

My firends dad worked at a small surveying company. On Friday night we went to his office as the computers were networked with COAX

We started playing this civ game that my buddy bought at the Bay in Edmonton.

We wet to 7-11, got some slushes and other items, started the game around 9pm, his dad came back to check on us, and it was 8am the next morning, I hadnt noticed it.

The game should be on the FDA list becuase its more addictvie than crack - oh sweet columbian ice.

[theJuice]

Maybe this belongs in a separate thread, but can anyone actually explain the appeal of Civilization? It sounds silly, but I've just heard this series always spoke of with such reverence and respect, so many stories of people playing it for hours and losing track of time etc. Always put it off for various reasons throughout the year, but recently decided to d/l Civ4 if just to see what all the hoopla is about.

I've always been a big PC Gamer, like all types, but I tended to favor more faster paced RTS games, IE starcraft, love the speed and insane macro/micro required at high level play, never saw the draw of slower games like Civ. Seemed boring to work on things like economy and building roads and libraries and stuff, maybe I just didn't see it in the right context.

What exactly do you DO? Is their a main, arching storyline that ties the game together, or is it like a bunch of random maps? Like, I chose a country or race and create an empire and then attack my opponents? I always hear people say they create cities and upgrade technology and stuff, but what is the purpose? Do you like start a match, create a city, and then go onto a different map and do it over again? Always been confused, if someone could explain it in a little bit of detail, it would be much appreciated.

[worth]

There's no storyline in the Civ series.

You basically start out with one settler and build an empire off that. You build one city and grow it's population, science, culture, economy so you can afford to build things like city improvements, army units, and more settlers. Build another settler, build another city. And one of the most important parts is exploring. Exploring the terrain and finding out who your neighbours are. You can go to war right away, or put it off. You don't have to wait until you're big and strong to go to war. Maybe you can destroy your neighbour right off the bat, which allows you to become the strongest country on the continent.

There's ways to win without going to war as well. But war is usually the most fun. For me anyway.

The point is just to build a great civilization that stands the test of time. It can be difficult. Especially if you get dragged into a long conflict. All resources are devoted to military undertakings, and your economy, and technology can suffer for it and then you may be behind the 8 ball.

You need to be able to balance everything in harmony to come out on top. It's a lot of fun. It's like being an emperor and looking over maps in a bunker and making decisions I guess. And since most of us will never be an emperor, this is the next best thing. Maybe people who play Civ have a lust for power.

[ShaolinFlame]

Originally Posted by theJuice

What exactly do you DO? Is their a main, arching storyline that ties the game together, or is it like a bunch of random maps? Like, I chose a country or race and create an empire and then attack my opponents? I always hear people say they create cities and upgrade technology and stuff, but what is the purpose? Do you like start a match, create a city, and then go onto a different map and do it over again? Always been confused, if someone could explain it in a little bit of detail, it would be much appreciated.

6 ways to win the game:

Kill Everyone
Own around 2/3 of the world
Have lots of culture
Build a spaceship
Get elected the winner through diplomacy
Have the highest score at the end

They can all be turned on and off. It is pretty much a sandbox style game.

Map can be random, earth, or custom made.

Game settings can make it last from one hour to 100+.

[CaptainCrunch]

And whatever you do, don't change your government to a republic, or democracy. Your citizen's become extremely unhappy when you send your boys off to fight and die.

Unless you grant woman's sufferage.

[dobbles]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

And whatever you do, don't change your government to a republic, or democracy. Your citizen's become extremely unhappy when you send your boys off to fight and die.

Unless you grant woman's sufferage.

old civ story - my friends and i first got into civ renting it from the local video store on snes. we were young and didnt read the instructions so we learned the game slowly on our own. it took us several months to realize we could change governments. as the game progressed we would always maz out our city sizes and at a point we would start losing money no matter how high the tax rate was. then one day we were america and i wanted to switch to democracy like real america, and that opened up a whole new world to us!

[dobbles]

Originally Posted by theJuice

Maybe this belongs in a separate thread, but can anyone actually explain the appeal of Civilization? It sounds silly, but I've just heard this series always spoke of with such reverence and respect, so many stories of people playing it for hours and losing track of time etc. Always put it off for various reasons throughout the year, but recently decided to d/l Civ4 if just to see what all the hoopla is about.

I've always been a big PC Gamer, like all types, but I tended to favor more faster paced RTS games, IE starcraft, love the speed and insane macro/micro required at high level play, never saw the draw of slower games like Civ. Seemed boring to work on things like economy and building roads and libraries and stuff, maybe I just didn't see it in the right context.

What exactly do you DO? Is their a main, arching storyline that ties the game together, or is it like a bunch of random maps? Like, I chose a country or race and create an empire and then attack my opponents? I always hear people say they create cities and upgrade technology and stuff, but what is the purpose? Do you like start a match, create a city, and then go onto a different map and do it over again? Always been confused, if someone could explain it in a little bit of detail, it would be much appreciated.

as mentioned there is not technical goal. essentially you are playing to win through the victory conditions mentioned in other posts. in the first couple civ games you pretty much had to be militaristic to win, there wasn't much else aside from the space race. but they added the concept of culture in civ3 and then expanded on that and diplomacy to really let you be a peaceful neighbor and still win.

the game is very slow paced and strategic. its not like an RTS game where you have to be super efficient with your gameplay. its the long term strategy that really causes it to be addictive. because of the turn based nature, you are always waiting for the proverbial next turn to come so you can do something new. thats what gets addictive. "i will play 1 more turn so i can discover this technology" or "one more turn and i get a new unit and can attack these guys" and then the turns just keep coming and its 4 hours later.

there's also always been a large community out there creating custom content. that helps to increase replay value. in the past it was basically just custom maps, but in civ 3 you could do custom units and techs and improvements. in civ4 you can mod darn near everything. so having tons of scenarios and modpacks increases the replay value and ups the addiction factor.

[the lemming]

So I bit the bullet the other day scraped together the $10 and bought a copy of Civ3 from FutureShop. Basically it is the box and a paper envelope with a CD in it. No instructions. No plastic case to hold the CD in. Oh well, I guess that is what you get for $10.

I've been up until 12:30am and 1:30am the past couple of nights playing this darn game and I have been getting my butt kicked. I think the no instructions thing is killing me. I don't know what I am doing so I pretty much just do whatever the little pop-up advisors tell me to do and I put my workers on autopilot. My treasure always seems to be running low, my cities are going into chaos and a new one last night, disease breaks out in one of my cities.

So far everytime I've played pretty much the same thing has happened. I'm merrily going about building my civilations trying to be reasonable with my neighbours then one of them will demand I give him some tech and some gold with no opportunity for a counter proposal. I tell him to shove it. He declares war on me and the next thing I know he gets a bunch of others to join the fight. From there it is just a matter of time until they wear me down. Last night I finally agreed to some of these ridiculous peace treaties they offer but that didn't seem to help as everyone else would still be pummeling me and then after a few turns the guy I just gave all my gold to starts attacking me again.

To this point I have found the game pretty frustrating but I'm going to see if I can track down some instructions. Maybe that will help.

I appreciate this opportunity to rant. Maybe it's the lack of sleep.

[BlackEleven]

Originally Posted by the lemming

So I bit the bullet the other day scraped together the $10 and bought a copy of Civ3 from FutureShop. Basically it is the box and a paper envelope with a CD in it. No instructions. No plastic case to hold the CD in. Oh well, I guess that is what you get for $10.

I've been up until 12:30am and 1:30am the past couple of nights playing this darn game and I have been getting my butt kicked. I think the no instructions thing is killing me. I don't know what I am doing so I pretty much just do whatever the little pop-up advisors tell me to do and I put my workers on autopilot. My treasure always seems to be running low, my cities are going into chaos and a new one last night, disease breaks out in one of my cities.

So far everytime I've played pretty much the same thing has happened. I'm merrily going about building my civilations trying to be reasonable with my neighbours then one of them will demand I give him some tech and some gold with no opportunity for a counter proposal. I tell him to shove it. He declares war on me and the next thing I know he gets a bunch of others to join the fight. From there it is just a matter of time until they wear me down. Last night I finally agreed to some of these ridiculous peace treaties they offer but that didn't seem to help as everyone else would still be pummeling me and then after a few turns the guy I just gave all my gold to starts attacking me again.

To this point I have found the game pretty frustrating but I'm going to see if I can track down some instructions. Maybe that will help.

I appreciate this opportunity to rant. Maybe it's the lack of sleep.

Your neighbours will usually only go to war with you if they are much more powerful than you. Try playing on the easiest setting (settler) and you'll pretty much be guaranteed to be the most powerful.

Best place for everything civ:
http://www.civfanatics.com/

Tonnes of articles, a forum, etc, etc.

[worth]

The was to dominate in Civ 3 is to build as many cities as possible. for the first 4,000 years just build cities. I remember playing as the Russians once on some huge mag and just covering 1/2 the landmass in cities. it was fun having that much production power. you can't do that in civ iv though.

[dobbles]

Originally Posted by BlackEleven

Your neighbours will usually only go to war with you if they are much more powerful than you. Try playing on the easiest setting (settler) and you'll pretty much be guaranteed to be the most powerful.

Best place for everything civ:
http://www.civfanatics.com/

Tonnes of articles, a forum, etc, etc.

civfanatics is a great resource. there should also be a link on the top left of the screen to the civilopedia, thats a great in game resource for the game stuff. also, check the files on the disc, i am sure theres a guide in there somewhere.

and as noted, if you have a strong army, then the computer won't be as agressive. you can change that setting in the setup as well. make them less agressive and most people will leave you alone. there are still some of the militaristic civs that always start crap, but it should help.

one thing of note: if you start playing on cheiftan (the easiest setting) you can learn a lot of bad habits about how to play. on that setting, the computer has a production disadvantage that causes them to need twice as many shields to build something. so as a human you can do a lot more and build a lot more wonders and stuff. but on higher levels that is bad strategy. try and play on the 2nd setting (warlord) if you can. that will really make you play the game smarter.

[BlackEleven]

Originally Posted by dobbles

and as noted, if you have a strong army, then the computer won't be as agressive. you can change that setting in the setup as well. make them less agressive and most people will leave you alone. there are still some of the militaristic civs that always start crap, but it should help.

To me the absolute key to the game is a strong army, but I'm a total war monger. I always go for the conquest (or domination, failing that) victory.

I find the most important thing is to attack early, especially on the harder difficulty settings as the AI will have advantages over you, which will only increases with time. One of my favourite thing to do is to steal the AI workers with my warriors. Usually they'll counter attack and kill your warrior, but I'll trade a warrior for a worker any day of the week. Plus this has the advantage that you don't have to waste your own resources (and take the no-growth penalty) building the worker. They'll get mad at you, but early in the game they don't have the military force to take your cities. Plus I plan on wiping out everyone on my contient very quickly.

Meanwhile I bee-line to the iron working tech so I can build swordsman (ideally praetorians as the Romans). Once I get it, I build a city right next to the iron, use a worker to mine the iron, and use another to build a road to the capital. Then I start cranking out the swordsmen/pratorians and attack everything in sight like mad, razing everything except the capitals.

This method does have its disadvantages because if you don't kill everyone really quickly, you'll start to fall way behind in tech and your economy will be ruined. So you have to balance that with your military. But on the right map, I can play just go for broke and play start to finish in about an hour (usually ending in a conquest around 1000 BC) using this strategy.

[the lemming]

Thanks guys! I appreciate all the tips. I found an instruction manual online over lunch that I downloaded (230+ pages). Now I just have to get it printed off.