Is the US World Cup flop good for the Flames?

[Flamenspiel]

Originally Posted by Oling_Roachinen

4?

Gaudreau was the only one who would have made the cut, let alone been a top player. There were still players like Kessel, Johnson, Faulk and Okposo who are better than their under 23 team counterparts. Perhaps Gostisbehere if they thought they needed a left handed offensive defensemen but then again, they didn't take Yandle.

Hmm lets see: Goudreau, Eichel, Mathews, Larkin, Saad, Jones, Gotisbiere. Unless your making a team based on career stats rather then current form, those 7 would look quite good on team USA.

Just looking through the roster alphabetocally the three top names on the US team were plugs like Abdelkader, Backes, and Dubinsky, look further down and you have Palmeri, Kesler and the Johnson(s) on defence.

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by Flamenspiel

Hmm lets see: Goudreau, Eichel, Mathews, Larkin, Saad, Jones, Gotisbiere. Unless your making a team based on career stats rather then current form, those 7 would look quite good on team USA.

Just looking through the roster alphabetocally the three top names on the US team were plugs like Abdelkader, Backes, and Dubinsky, look further down and you have Palmeri, Kesler and the Johnson(s) on defence.

Gaudreau makes the team.

Oustside of that, you've named two rookies with 56 points and 45 points in the NHL, a player who hasn't played in the NHL and Jones who is no where near as talented as Faulk or Shattenkirk. Saad wouldn't displace Gaudreau, Pacioretty or Parise so at the very best he's a fourth liner. Gostisbehere, another rookie but in an area of weakness for the team so maybe a longshot. Realistically none of them make it. To argue that they would be top players for team USA I don't think holds much water.

If you're looking at Abdelkader, that doesn't mean much because he was taken in favour of Kessel, Johnson, and Okposo. All three of those guys are, today, better than Matthews and Eichel. You're calling Palmieri a plug, but he outscored every American on U23 except for Gaudreau.

It's unusual for team USA to bring rookies to any best on best. You think that a Torts coached team would be willing to have 3 or 4 of them on the roster? Team USA could have been better, but not because of team North America...simply taking Kessel (if not injured), Faulk and Johnson would have made them better.

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by Oling_Roachinen

4?

Gaudreau was the only one who would have made the cut, let alone been a top player. There were still players like Kessel, Johnson, Faulk and Okposo who are better than their under 23 team counterparts. Perhaps Gostisbehere if they thought they needed a left handed offensive defensemen but then again, they didn't take Yandle.

Matthews and Eichel would both be the #1C on Team USA. So would Tyler Johnson.

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

Matthews and Eichel would both be the #1C on Team USA. So would Tyler Johnson.

They will be in the future, no doubt about it. But Eichel was a 50 point forward who struggled. He's not displacing Pavelski, an absolutely underrated beast.

Johnson should have been on the team, that's pretty much my point, and I would have had him under Pavelski as the number 2. Kesler still is a more rounded player than the rookie Eichel, especially as you can play him in that shutdown role. And Matthews hasn't played an NHL game. When was the last time team USA took a player with 0 games experience to a true best on best tournament? And it's not like they have no one else to chose from, Stepan is still a quality center.

What they will be in the near future is not what they are today, and team USA is (or should be) good enough that they don't have to rely on rookies and just drafted players.

Actually CHL posted his version of team USA and it's pretty close to what I'm saying the team should have been:

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

Actual team USA, selected properly:

Pacioretti Pavelski Kane
Gaudreau Johnson Kessel
Parise Kesler Wheeler
JVR Stepan Okposo
Saad (You could make an argument for Palmieri, maybe Eichel as 13th forward but probably not yet.)

Byfuglien Suter
McDonaghn Shattenkirk
Faulk Carlson
Gostisbehere

Schneider
Bishop
Quick

Gaudreau obviously making the team, Gostisbehere, Saad/Eichel as extras. Personally I take Backes over Saad or Eichel, just as a more utility belt player. E. Johnson or Yandle over Gostisbehere wouldn't be too surprising given the limited amount Gostisbehere has played. Not exactly losing out on 4 of their top players.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by Par

This is very good news for the Flames, Burke is an idiot, who got lucky with the Ducks and won a cup. He is going to say something stupid about a prospect and he may lose the dam prospect, get this idiot away from the team.

Why the personal attacks? Burke is a very smart guy, former lawyer. I dunno that he got lucky with the Ducks.

I like him, he's not an idiot and I'd like him to stay with the team. You repeatedly calling him an idiot kind of makes you look like the idiot.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by jeffman

Didn't he trash Bobby Ryan as low intensity for the Sochi olympics?

Was he wrong?

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

Why the personal attacks? Burke is a very smart guy, former lawyer. I dunno that he got lucky with the Ducks.

Inherited:
#1G JSG
#1C McDonald
#2C Getzlaf
#2RW Perry
#1RW Selanne
#3C Pahlsson
#3RW Niedermayer

Got handed on a silver platter:
#1A D Pronger (Requested a trade to a warm American city because of his wife)
#1B D Niedermayer (UFA Wanted to play with his brother)

Deserves credit for:
"#1" LW Kunitz
"#2" LW Penner (or at least their amateur scouting)
#3 D Beauchemin
"#4" D O'Donnell
#3LW Moen

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Using that criteria you can never give credit to a GM for a cup unless he had been there for 5-10 years prior? A GM is always going to inherit some players unless they've been there a long time.

[handgroen]

i'm so against the idea of burke being a problem in any way it makes it hard for me to see this thread exists.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

Got handed on a silver platter:
#1A D Pronger (Requested a trade to a warm American city because of his wife)

Anaheim is not the only warm American city with an NHL franchise. The silver platter was up for grabs.

[getbak]

Originally Posted by jeffman

Didn't he trash Bobby Ryan as low intensity for the Sochi olympics?

It's funny that people got mad at Burke for saying that, but if you read the whole transcript of the conversation, he was defending Ryan and arguing in favour of his inclusion on the Olympic team. For some reason, people latched onto the part of the quote where Burke said Ryan isn't an intense player, while completely ignoring everything else.

Holmgren suggests the coaches have to decide if Ryan is going to be an integral part of the power-play groups, and if so, he needs to be pushed ahead. But if not, maybe they should be looking at two more well-rounded players.

"I agree," Poile says.

Burke points out that Poile has included the coaches more than he did when he occupied the GM position in Vancouver four years before. It's good, but, he adds, "I think coaches see snapshots, and I think GMs watch the whole movie."

"I think we have to know what we're taking with Bobby," says Burke, who had him in Anaheim when the Ducks won the Stanley Cup in 2007.

"He's a passive guy," Burke says. And over 82 games, yes, Saad and or Pacioretty might be more attractive than Ryan. But Ryan's a game-breaker.

"He is not intense. That word is not in his vocabulary," Burke says. "It's never going to be in his vocabulary. He can't spell intense."

If he's not going to be put in a role in which he can score an important goal, use his skills as a sniper, he shouldn't go, Burke says.

"Is everybody really happy with our speed up front?" Poile asks.

There is a pause.

"I don't think it's a fast team," Tallon notes.

Ryan doesn't add to the speed quotient, so do these last two spots need to be filled with speed guys? And if there are injuries, which of these guys are more compatible, more able to move up the roster to fill in more demanding roles?

Pacioretty and Saad are both better 60-minute players, Burke says, "But neither can do what Bobby can do."

[PepsiFree]

People focus on it because the media did, and then Ryan got upset about it, and then the media focused on that. Nobody remembers that first and last part, where Burke says to push him ahead if he's going to be used in big offensive situations.

It's true though. Put him in favourable situations and he'll score you goals, but he's one of the least intense top 6 guys I've seen.

I like what Burke & co try to do with Team USA. Problem is they don't have the all-around talent that Canada or Sweden does, so they end up having to choose between guys who are good with the puck and those good without it.

[pepper24]

Treliving (entering office in excitement): Hey Burkie. I think I may have found a way for us to get Crosby and McDavid, and we wouldn’t have to give up that much.
Burke (drunken mumbles): They lack truculence. I make the calls here Tattoo.
Trevliving: It's Treliving.
Burke: What?
Trevliving: [stammers] Th-th-the name, i-i-i-it's 'Treliving'.
[Burke gets up from desk and violently backhands Treliving to the ground.]
Burke: WHAT'S your name?!
Trevliving: [cowering on the ground] Tattoo.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

People focus on it because the media did, and then Ryan got upset about it, and then the media focused on that. Nobody remembers that first and last part, where Burke says to push him ahead if he's going to be used in big offensive situations...

This is EXACTLY the same situation as with his comments vis-à-vis Baertschi.