IF Julien and/or Hitchcock are fired, does Treliving make a move?

[the_only_turek_fan]

One thing I have always wondered about is a second tour of duty for Jim Playfair.

[locsofblu]

Hartley's not going anywhere. If they struggle out of the gate next season then you start thinking about replacing him but I'd doubt any of those names are available come November.

[jlh2640]

No thanks, stay the course with Hartley

[Strange Brew]

This question make me think about the end of season presser and whether it's announced any of the assistants won't be returning.

[btimbit]

Originally Posted by the_only_turek_fan

One thing I have always wondered about is a second tour of duty for Jim Playfair.

I love Jim but not sure if this is the team for him. Not sure if he'd want too either, A lot of his family isn't even around the Calgary area anymore.

Would take him as an associate coach in a heartbeat though

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

Bull. A combination of solid players, offence, and defence, wins championships. If you can't score you can't win the game no matter how good your team is defensively. What a stupid saying.

It's a stupid saying? Here's the last 5 Stanley Cup winners:

2015 Chi 2nd in GA, 17th in GF
2014 LA 1st in GA, 26th in GF
2013 Chi 1st in GA, 2nd in GF
2012 LA 2nd in GA, 29th in GF
2011 BOS 2nd in GA, 5th in GF


See a trend? In fact, the top 3 highest scoring teams in 2012 didn't make it past the first round. Last year Dallas was the second highest scoring team and didn't even make the playoffs

[CSharp]

Cripes sakes - the mention of Hitchcock makes me cringe. There's no way you'd want him as a Flames coach, ever! Hartley is fine with the Flames. Hartley's style of quick puck moving suits the way their young players want to play - with speed, skill, and moving the puck up the ice. With coaches like Hitchcock, it's gonna bore the hell out of everyone. Flames are build a team around Gaudreau and a fast moving defence, not an old style trap system. That almost killed the NHL back in the 90's and into the 2000's. No way!

[Enoch Root]

there's an old saying: you show me a good coach and I'll show you a good goalie

[Da_Chief]

Some people have to realize each coaching style isn't mutually exclusive. You can have an offensive team that plays defense as well.

Gio, Brodie, Hamilton are not going to forget the stretch pass if someone other then Hartley's behind the bench. Gaudreau isn't forget how to carry the puck into the zone. Bennett won't stop being tenacious. Monahan won't lose his shot.

Right now the Flames don't play a structured defence. That's what Julien will bring. Look at Chara's numbers from years past, look at Hamilton from his previous 2 years (2 40 point seasons under Julien).

Julien isn't some trap coach. He would be really a good fit in Calgary. Boston's core developed under Julien. At the time when they won the cup; Bergeron was 25, Krejci was 24, Lucic 22, Horton 25, Marchand 22. This is the perfect time to bring in a winning, proper coach.

Not interested in Hitchcock. 50-50 on Tippett.

[killer_carlson]

The Flames failures are a goaltending issue.

That isn't the coach. That is the GM. If Treliving burdens Hartley with terrible goaltending and again fails to intervene, then he'd better be firing himself at the same time he fires Hartley.

[Chingas]

Originally Posted by Locke

I'd also be game for Tippett.

But considering the argument of 'bad coaching' I dont know what it was, but something was wrong with Special Teams this year. I dont know if it was coaching or just Murphy's law or what but its something to consider.

I like Bob and the culture that he has instilled in the team, but I do think that he is too stubborn on many things. I look no further than our PP being vastly improved over the last couple of months, and how it correlates directly with Wideman no longer being available and Dougie getting that time instead. For most of the season our whole pp was trying to get Wideman the puck who proceeded to shoot it wide whilst not moving his feet.

Over simplified? Maybe a little, but Bob tends to stick to his guns a little longer on some things than I would like. I don't see him as a coach that makes timely adjustments to counter our opponents. For the first half of the season the book was out on us and we continued to trot out the same game plan. The fact that Bob could get the team to follow his plan game in game out is a positive, the fact that he didn't alter it enough is the negative imo.

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by CSharp

Cripes sakes - the mention of Hitchcock makes me cringe. There's no way you'd want him as a Flames coach, ever! Hartley is fine with the Flames. Hartley's style of quick puck moving suits the way their young players want to play - with speed, skill, and moving the puck up the ice. With coaches like Hitchcock, it's gonna bore the hell out of everyone. Flames are build a team around Gaudreau and a fast moving defence, not an old style trap system. That almost killed the NHL back in the 90's and into the 2000's. No way!

You mean the boring St Louis Blues that scored a whopping 10 less goals than the flames this year (with way more scoring chances)? Or the one last year that was 5th in scoring? Or the one with that boring player Tarasenko?

[Dajazz]

Originally Posted by MarkGio

Hockey is still a business. It's hard to sell tickets and promote your team when your star players are getting 50 Pts

The easiest way to sell tickets is to win.

It's all about having the puck and doing the right thing with it, look at who is winning the SC lately (CHI and LA first and foremost).

A good offense is a good defense, but that means taking the puck and keeping it. The fact that CHI manages to score while having the puck and LA doesn't, that's another discussion.

[BurningSteel]

The best coaches in Flames history were Bob's. Not Ken's, Claude's and certainly not Dave's.

I think the failures/short comings this season were more GM based than coach based.

No change required.

[DuffMan]

I don't think its time for a new coach. expectations are still low, and Hartley is good with young players.

[Dan403]

Originally Posted by Cali Panthers Fan

Give Hartley a competent goalie before you fire him. In his tenure he had the worst days of Kipper, Reto Berra, Joey MacDonald, Karri Ramo, Joni Ortio, and the last gasps of Jonas Hiller's career.

This.

Hatley has done as well as the team he has been given.

Better last year.

[Badgers Nose]

God no. Id rather watch Hartley hockey, even if we miss again.

[Calgary4LIfe]

In all fairness, Tippett does adjust his coaching based on the personnel. I remember an article that I came across not that long ago that showed how Tippett implements a more offensive-oriented system when he has the horses to do so.

I really believe most of the higher-level and experienced NHL coaches out there adjust their systems based on what kind of team is built. I don't think Brent was an NHL-level coach simply because he didn't do this (no plays up the middle, everything up the boards, cycling to create offence when the Flames were the oldest and smallest team in the NHL).

I really believe that the biggest obstacle for a coach is learning how to continually motivate their players, and get them to consistently buy-into the team system.

Based on my idea anyways, I think canning Hartley and replacing him would be the wrong move. I think he has at least earned himself a chance at redemption based on last season's performance, and how this season might have played out if he had a capable starting goalie.

[Jore]

i agree with everyone that we've had some truly awful goaltending, especially this year. i also dug up some stats for the time since hartley has been here (from 2012 to now), and for how the flames' systems play compare to other teams (all stats are 5 on 5 and score adjusted):

26th in scoring chances for and against differential
25th in high quality scoring chances for and against differential
26th in shots for and against differential
27th in shot attempts for and against differential
29th in goals against
30th in save percentage

to me, what this tells us is that while we've had some truly bad goalies, even with league average goaltending we would still be consistently chasing the play, and having shots and chances to against us. hartley has had some bad teams, too, but the flames this year, with 3 good to elite defensemen, should have had a much easier time getting out of the zone and generating offense. before the season, i really hoped that hartley would be able to grow and adapt the systems from last year to a system that controlled the play more. and while their stats have improved, what i saw time and time again this year, especially against teams like anaheim or la, was a reliance on the stretch pass, and while teams have figured it out and exploited it, hartley had no answer.

as some others have pointed out, hartley also has been stubborn with player usage. for example, wideman was on the last ranked 1st pp until he was removed from the game of hockey, and nakladal would never have gotten a chance until the wideman suspension and our trading russell away. hartley has done a good job of instilling a work ethic here, but if there are better options available, i think we should consider them.

[Calgary4LIfe]

Originally Posted by Jore

i agree with everyone that we've had some truly awful goaltending, especially this year. i also dug up some stats for the time since hartley has been here (from 2012 to now), and for how the flames' systems play compare to other teams (all stats are 5 on 5 and score adjusted):

26th in scoring chances for and against differential
25th in high quality scoring chances for and against differential
26th in shots for and against differential
27th in shot attempts for and against differential
29th in goals against
30th in save percentage

to me, what this tells us is that while we've had some truly bad goalies, even with league average goaltending we would still be consistently chasing the play, and having shots and chances to against us. hartley has had some bad teams, too, but the flames this year, with 3 good to elite defensemen, should have had a much easier time getting out of the zone and generating offense. before the season, i really hoped that hartley would be able to grow and adapt the systems from last year to a system that controlled the play more. and while their stats have improved, what i saw time and time again this year, especially against teams like anaheim or la, was a reliance on the stretch pass, and while teams have figured it out and exploited it, hartley had no answer.

as some others have pointed out, hartley also has been stubborn with player usage. for example, wideman was on the last ranked 1st pp until he was removed from the game of hockey, and nakladal would never have gotten a chance until the wideman suspension and our trading russell away. hartley has done a good job of instilling a work ethic here, but if there are better options available, i think we should consider them.

This is where things become confusing.

The Flames are still very much a young rebuilding team. I would expect them to be relatively low in scoring chances for and against. Just the nature of the beast until they get more depth and experience.

Also, you do hear often that a team doesn't play well in front of a goalie they don't trust. Flames seemed to vastly improve once Ramo got his groove back - and it wasn't like Ramo was playing some vezina quality minutes - he was merely decent, and the Flames played better in front of him. Remember when McBackup would start over Kipper? Team played a putrid game each and every time.

As for Wideman - the guy just came off a 50+ point season. That is really high last time I checked. He also did have the best shot from the point (better than Hamilton's), not to mention he stepped up huge last year and without him, the Flames don't make the playoffs. This year he started off poorly for whatever reason, and Hartley had to try and find a way to get him going.

Anybody know if the last segment of games before Wideman's suspension if the PP was doing better? For some reason, I recall the PP doing better right before his suspension. For his slow start, Wideman was still leading all Calgary defencemen with points in the first month (or two??), was he not?

The problem is that Wideman never got back on track. A good coach will give a guy like Wideman more rope in an effort to help him and get his game back. Seems he gave him too much rope at the end, but I don't fault Hartley for trying to get Wideman's game back.