As a total amateur to shooting, I have to ask the military guys here how hard (physically) is it to shoot that many rounds in that period of time? I talked to a guy yesterday that said his arms and shoulders were trashed after a few hundred rounds.
I'm not being conspiracy theorist, I'm just curious.
If he bought from a dealer in Utah, he went though a background check.
If you want a “high powered” registry, you’d need to first change federal law and then define “high powered”, because there is no current definition. In what way do you fell that the government knowing that Joe Blow has 5 guns of whatever arbitrary calibre would prevent those guns from being used in a crime?
A registry is not going to stop everything, but combined with other measures such as banning high capacity magazines (10 or more rounds), the online sale of guns, cracking down on gun smuggling and a waiting period will all help curb this non sense
What is your solution whiteout? doing nothing? that really seems to be working.
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As a total amateur to shooting, I have to ask the military guys here how hard (physically) is it to shoot that many rounds in that period of time? I talked to a guy yesterday that said his arms and shoulders were trashed after a few hundred rounds.
I'm not being conspiracy theorist, I'm just curious.
The guy you spoke to sounds soft.
It ain't hard, I would suggest he wasn't even supporting the weight of the weapon, I think he was bi-poding it.
Weapons these days are light and easy to fire with minimal kick back.
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Last edited by undercoverbrother; 10-06-2017 at 10:19 AM.
The registry idea really is so simple to implement. The regular background process requires the dealer to call into NICS to conduct the clearance. They give the FBI the information on the purchaser, so it would be as easy as giving them the make, model and serial number of the weapon at the same time, which would be entered into the system as a registration when the background is approved. Then the issue just becomes a gun ownership responsibility issue. You are responsible for that weapon until you decide to transfer it to another individual. Because you are the responsible party you are the one ultimately responsible for the legal transfer of ownership of that weapon to the new individual. Pretty simple, something all of us responsible gun owners already do.
A couple comments on some of the random stuff from this thread.
Bump stocks are fun. I'll be sad to have to turn mine in. I can understand the perspective they are an illegal modification. But they are a blast to shoot. They certainly add an expense to a day in the desert that I won't miss. You really chew up the rounds with those things.
Tannerite is not a big deal. It is binary explosive (actually three chemicals) that has limited explosive power, on par with black powder. The difference between the two is the detonation velocity of tannerite is substantially higher, almost 4.5 times quicker, making it a louder and prouder explosive. Really, tannerite has the equivalent power of a M80 firecracker by volume. Tannerite is also really easy to make. Both Ammonium nitrate and ammonium perchlorate are cheap and readily available. These make up the base oxidizer of the binary. The second half of the mix is just aluminum power, which acts as the fuel. All the chemicals are pretty much inert and easy to transport. Even after mixing and creating actual tannerite, the explosive is extremely stable. You need a huge amount of the stuff to make it dangerous. Interestingly enough, a few years ago I was talking to some ATF agents after a training event for the local bomb squad and mentioned tannerite as a threat. They initially dismissed it because it doesn't have the power of other explosives, but when I suggested it be used as precursor with a more volatile explosive (tannerite and compressed natural gas for example) they actually changed their tune and thought the idea could use more study. It appeared these guys were so focused on the stuff that is small and makes big bangs that they were looking past the cheap stuff that is freely available and can be thrown together to make an almost equally dangerous explosive.
To me, the problem with guns and weapons in America in general is responsibility. Gun owners love their guns, but hate the responsibility that comes with owning and operating them. Solve that problem and you can solve all other problems with guns pretty easily.
As a total amateur to shooting, I have to ask the military guys here how hard (physically) is it to shoot that many rounds in that period of time? I talked to a guy yesterday that said his arms and shoulders were trashed after a few hundred rounds.
I'm not being conspiracy theorist, I'm just curious.
As a total amateur to shooting, I have to ask the military guys here how hard (physically) is it to shoot that many rounds in that period of time? I talked to a guy yesterday that said his arms and shoulders were trashed after a few hundred rounds.
I'm not being conspiracy theorist, I'm just curious.
Like many things in life, "it depends."
What is the shooter's personal physical condition? From all accounts, this guy didn't appear to be in shape.
Are you firing the weapon from a supported position or Haji style while standing behind a couch?
What weapon are you firing?
I just shot at a range yesterday. 5.56mm semi-auto, under 100 rounds. I'm a bit sore today and I consider myself to be in decent shape for 52 years old. I wasn't tired while shooting, but as I age, it gets increasingly more difficult to hold my aim in any position other than prone.
I do not know what the shooter's line of sight was from the 32 floor, but I don't think he could have been prone to sight his target area. I assume that he would have had to be at least kneeling, which means he'd be right up next to the (broken) window in order to sight the target area. I'd think there would be a good breeze and a good pucker factor that high up, which means you'd have to really clench up to trying to stay stabilized. That gets tiring firing single shots, let alone at auto.
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A registry is not going to stop everything, but combined with other measures such as banning high capacity magazines (10 or more rounds), the online sale of guns, cracking down on gun smuggling and a waiting period will all help curb this non sense
What is your solution whiteout? doing nothing? that really seems to be working.
I’d start by increasing access to mental health and removing the stigma associated with getting help. I’d also look into the reason why the US has this issue and other countries where you have access to the same guns don’t.
A registry only tells you who has guns if they register them, it doesn’t say how those guns are being used or how they will be used. Canada ditched the LGR because it wasn’t accomplishing what people thought it would. There was no evidence it actually lowered the homicide rate or made women safer. It was inaccurate and had a low compliance rate (which the police couldn’t stop). The compliance rate in the US would probably be well under 50%, with no way to actually force compliance.
Limiting standard capacity mags (20 & 30 round) doesn’t improve safety and it doesn’t stop crime, even Canadian limited capacity mags can be returned to full capacity in a minute or two. People like to say that if a shooter had to change mags, it would give people a chance to run. That’s not a really viable argument when it takes a second or two to swap.
For the sake of argument, let’s say they do ban mags over 10 rounds. How do you enforce it? There is no record of who bought what (accessory purchases are not regulated), a vast majority won’t voluntarily surrender them without compensation, you have law enforcement that won’t enforce the law and you can’t go house to house to search for them.
Assuming anyone actually complies, how would you use the registry to prevent people from going off the rails and shooting up a mall? Unless your proposal includes limiting the amount of property someone can own and then using the registry and police to enforce those limits. It might be good for after the fact tracing, but in most of these cases, the shooter is either dead or in custody already. Even if they aren’t, tracing is possible now. We already register property, but it hasn’t stopped laws being broken.
A lot of ideas are being tossed around, but they aren’t usually accompanied by how the specific idea would prevent shootings from happening. Not only that, but some of the things suggested are already illegal.
Last edited by llwhiteoutll; 10-06-2017 at 11:10 AM.
I think people also overestimate how much a casino cares about what happens in their Hotel areas. The gambling floor for sure though.
I got stupidly wasted in Vegas about 6 years ago and completely trashed an entire hallway, while wearing only my underpants (shut up, I know it's a bad look) and I think it took security a good 20-30 mins to come up and even ask me what was going on.
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As a total amateur to shooting, I have to ask the military guys here how hard (physically) is it to shoot that many rounds in that period of time? I talked to a guy yesterday that said his arms and shoulders were trashed after a few hundred rounds.
I'm not being conspiracy theorist, I'm just curious.
The FNC1 took a bit of getting used to, it wasn't all that forgiving of a weapon if you didn't control it.
But most modern rifles, they don't beat you up that much.
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Aim? there was over 20k there... is it really so difficult to believe that he simply pointed his gun at an area about the size of a football field and squeezed the trigger?
550 people out of 20000 equals a hit rate of 2.75% That number hardly rings of some kind of nefarious conspiracy unless you are addled or simply buy into all the BS that passes for "information" on FB nowadays.
as for motive, he was pissed off and wanted to lash out, like most of the mass shooters out there...
people trying awfully hard to make this act fit their own misguided narrative...
Alex Jones is probably having a circle jerk with his accountants about all the morons he can dupe this week
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I got stupidly wasted in Vegas about 6 years ago and completely trashed an entire hallway, while wearing only my underpants (shut up, I know it's a bad look) and I think it took security a good 20-30 mins to come up and even ask me what was going on.
We were at the MGM 2-3 years ago when a group of bunch of ######s walking by grabbed one of the girls in our group's ass. Things were going to get heated real but security showed up almost instantly and removed the other grop. The speed of that response blew me away. That said, this was in the Walkway betwee the MGM Signature and the main hotel/casino, so that may have more security than other areas, but still kind of blows me away he was able to get that many guns into a room without security noticing something.
I’d start by increasing access to mental health and removing the stigma associated with getting help. I’d also look into the reason why the US has this issue and other countries where you have access to the same guns don’t.
A lot of ideas are being tossed around, but they aren’t usually accompanied by how the specific idea would prevent shootings from happening. Not only that, but some of the things suggested are already illegal.
Your solution falls into the same realm though. What makes you think these people are going to seek help? What makes you think they even believe they need any help at all? Mental health isn’t often a matter of “Oh, I know I’m sick, i’ll go see the doctor.”
As far as the stigma around mental health goes and the question of what makes America more prone to gun violence, that’s a cultural thing. So while it’s a great idea to say “I’d start with changing American culture” you actually have to do something tangible and meaningful in the interim, because even if you start changing American culture today it could be generations before you seen that change fully realised. The problem doesn’t have generations worth of waiting. It needs a practical and tangible attempt at a fix now, not just “We’ll slowly change the way they feel about stuff.” That’s just not a real solution, it’s fluff.
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Read a story in the Sun today about a young man who was shot and injured and has had to deal with medical vills as he has no health insurance for his trip to the States.
We were at the MGM 2-3 years ago when a group of bunch of ######s walking by grabbed one of the girls in our group's ass. Things were going to get heated real but security showed up almost instantly and removed the other grop. The speed of that response blew me away. That said, this was in the Walkway betwee the MGM Signature and the main hotel/casino, so that may have more security than other areas, but still kind of blows me away he was able to get that many guns into a room without security noticing something.
He likely didn't walk into the hotel with guns over both shoulders. I doubt anyone would question someone for bringing a couple extra suitcases than you would expect a single guy to have.
Read a story in the Sun today about a young man who was shot and injured and has had to deal with medical vills as he has no health insurance for his trip to the States.
Travelling to the US without health insurance is a gamble that I just don't understand. For a few dollars a day, you get the peace of mind that if something occurs, you and your family won't be financially ruined.
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He likely didn't walk into the hotel with guns over both shoulders. I doubt anyone would question someone for bringing a couple extra suitcases than you would expect a single guy to have.
Not only that but aren't there gun expos all the time in Vegas? I doubt this was really the strangest thing staff had ever seen.
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Exp:
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheAlpineOracle
We were at the MGM 2-3 years ago when a group of bunch of ######s walking by grabbed one of the girls in our group's ass. Things were going to get heated real but security showed up almost instantly and removed the other grop. The speed of that response blew me away. That said, this was in the Walkway betwee the MGM Signature and the main hotel/casino, so that may have more security than other areas, but still kind of blows me away he was able to get that many guns into a room without security noticing something.
He had 4 days to get his stuff into the room.
Most of those weapons break down into components.
So day 1 he checks in with 2 or 3 suitcases. One contains clothing etc, the other 2 contain 4 of the weapons. Later that night he heads down to the garage and grabs another 2 suitcases containing 3 or 4 of them. Then does it again twice the next day at various times. Just a guy walking through a massive hotel pushing a luggage trolley. No one, including the most alert and suspicious security guards are going to notice that.
By late night the second night he has all his weaponry and ammo in his room, and even able to hide them out of sight without much issue in an 1800 sq.ft. 2 bedroom, fully furnished suite. It's still a couple more days until he goes ahead with his plan.
This guy was smart in that way. He had clearly drawn up a plan that was not only brutally effective in its implementation, but also impossible to detect as happening before hand.
Im most interested to see if they ever really find the "trigger" that sent him down one of the darkest roads a human being could possibly take. Something happened to/around this guy that set off a controlled rage of epic proportions.
