Using Detroit or Michigan decision making as point to say Calgary should do something is ridiculous.
Detroit went bankrupt, Michigan and the emergency managers approved changing the water supply in Flint to something that ended up being contaminated with lead.
If anything you should do the opposite of Michigan and/or Detroit actions.
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The city should really be sending a bill, but in the end, doing the study should be considered a significant portion of the city's portion of getting the project done.
I've got no problem with the city paying for the contamination study. It's something we should know about anyway, so we can plan properly, weather it be CalgaryNEXT or the city's west village project.
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The city should really be sending a bill, but in the end, doing the study should be considered a significant portion of the city's portion of getting the project done.
I disagree with this. The city has a prime geographical piece of land that is undeveloped. You have a group that wants to use that land that will reshape the west of downtown and they are very serious about doing it. I think it is on the city to at least pay for the study to determine the cost of the cleanup. Not saying the city has to pay for the entire cleanup once those costs are quantified
I'm actually surprised there isn't already a report on the contamination of the site and what has to be done to reclaim it.
Pretty sure council had said reports when they went ahead and bought the land in the first place. Would love to know the rationale of taking on that liability.
Ugh, how long until this type of comment goes away forever?
When city council stops spending money on asinine pet projects that add minimal value.
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When city council stops spending money on asinine pet projects that add minimal value.
Yeah! Who needs nice things. I long for Calgary of the 80's, what a magical place it was. It should have never changed.
$65 million on an overpass in the deep south that could hardly be considered part of the city at all? Not a peep. $6 million on bike lanes? THE HORROR!!!!
Get the f*** over it.
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When city council stops spending money on asinine pet projects that add minimal value.
The current capital budget is $5.8 BILLION dollars... Bike lanes were 0.1 % of that. You should really pick something more material to harp on because your wasting your time.
The current capital budget is $5.8 BILLION dollars... Bike lanes were 0.1 % of that. You should really pick something more material to harp on because your wasting your time.
It's not about the cost, it's about the decision making process. If city council thinks turning 12th Ave, one of the main (and few) arteries of the core, into what is essentially a single lane, when 10th Ave, which already had bike lane commitments, would have sufficed, one is left with very little confidence about their ability to manage the other 99.9% of said capital budget.
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As it sits with current estimations right now the Flames/NHL are attempting to hold the city hostage for more than a Billion dollars (400+600 estimated for cleanup) and that doesnt take the value of the land into question which they want for free. If this was any other business that doesnt pull at the heart strings of people there wouldnt even be a question of the sanity of this proposal.
Everyone who is a taxpayer in this city should agree that the Flames need to either bring a whole lot more money to the table to take their BS idea and shove it. Build you own stadium at Cross Iron Mills for all I care - I am sure the opportunistic geniuses at Rocky View County would give you some money.
Until you have at least a rough estimation of how much the environmental cleanup would cost there is really nothing more to talk about and if Bettman cant be bothered to schedule a meeting with the mayor before showing up then piss off. The mayor is 1 vote (and the tiebreaker vote at that) on council so if the flames played the suburban developer game all they need to do is convince a bunch of nickel and dime councilor to support there 10th baked idea.
Personally I think the Stampede board and the Flames need to end this childish spat they are having and figure a way to get the NHL arena done there.
As it sits with current estimations right now the Flames/NHL are attempting to hold the city hostage for more than a Billion dollars (400+600 estimated for cleanup) and that doesnt take the value of the land into question which they want for free. If this was any other business that doesnt pull at the heart strings of people there wouldnt even be a question of the sanity of this proposal.
Everyone who is a taxpayer in this city should agree that the Flames need to either bring a whole lot more money to the table to take their BS idea and shove it. Build you own stadium at Cross Iron Mills for all I care - I am sure the opportunistic geniuses at Rocky View County would give you some money.
Until you have at least a rough estimation of how much the environmental cleanup would cost there is really nothing more to talk about and if Bettman cant be bothered to schedule a meeting with the mayor before showing up then piss off. The mayor is 1 vote (and the tiebreaker vote at that) on council so if the flames played the suburban developer game all they need to do is convince a bunch of nickel and dime councilor to support there 10th baked idea.
Personally I think the Stampede board and the Flames need to end this childish spat they are having and figure a way to get the NHL arena done there.
The cleanup has to happen regardless of whether the site is ever used for ANYTHING! Why can't people get this through their heads. I assume it's people being willfully obtuse at this point.
As it sits with current estimations right now the Flames/NHL are attempting to hold the city hostage for more than a Billion dollars (400+600 estimated for cleanup) and that doesnt take the value of the land into question which they want for free. If this was any other business that doesnt pull at the heart strings of people there wouldnt even be a question of the sanity of this proposal.
Everyone who is a taxpayer in this city should agree that the Flames need to either bring a whole lot more money to the table to take their BS idea and shove it. Build you own stadium at Cross Iron Mills for all I care - I am sure the opportunistic geniuses at Rocky View County would give you some money.
Until you have at least a rough estimation of how much the environmental cleanup would cost there is really nothing more to talk about and if Bettman cant be bothered to schedule a meeting with the mayor before showing up then piss off. The mayor is 1 vote (and the tiebreaker vote at that) on council so if the flames played the suburban developer game all they need to do is convince a bunch of nickel and dime councilor to support there 10th baked idea.
Personally I think the Stampede board and the Flames need to end this childish spat they are having and figure a way to get the NHL arena done there.
I dont know of they're holding the City 'hostage' so much. At least not intentionally.
My view of this entire fiasco has led me to believe that its been unprepared bungling on the Flames' part. Its always something new.
First its the letter that says nothing, the amateur proposal, having Bettman champion the cause while hes in town, etc.
I have a lot of respect for Ken King but I'm beginning to question whether or not he was really the right guy for this job.
Nenshi, true to form and expertise, has pretty much managed to shoehorn the exact same statement into every interview at every opportunity.
"The initial proposal was unrealistic (<- thats a polite way of saying it) and once we have all the environmental and economic facts then they can bring us something real and we'll discuss it."
He has always been open for discussion, if its something worth discussing.
The Bettman fiasco, this has been ridiculous and I feel a bit bad for Bettman. I'm beginning to believe that Gary came in doing what Gary does, his job, hes trying to help move the process along but I'm getting the impression that maybe King and the Flames threw a microphone in his face before he really had a comprehensive grasp of the situation and all of its factors here.
For instance, did Bettman actually watch the initial CalgaryNEXT proposal? The whole thing? Is he completely fluent with the proposed funding model? You know, the thing that is the major holdup?
Ken King is not an idiot, and certainly neither are Bettman or Nenshi, but its like Nenshi and the City have essentially stated: "These criteria need to be met before we discuss this any further" and King and the Flames seem to be trying to push the issue without meeting the criteria.
Nenshi is doing exactly what he should be doing, and what we want him to be doing and he even says it in that interview! (Paraphrasing)
"If theres going to be public funding we have to determine 'how much' and 'for what' and whether we have that money and that Calgarians want this."
Not:
"Yo Dawg, I hear y'all like hockey and whatnot, we need a half Bill and some land yo!"
DEAL!
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I don't disagree that the model is unfair, and ultimately low benefit for high money for the taxpayers. But there is no other alternative. If it comes down to this and this only, what you really should be asking yourself is if you want the Flames or not.
There is no arena in NA that isn't paid for with a majority of public funds. And this one is actually a lower ratio of public funds than most. So that's something.
You must be one hell of a negotiator!
"If the City doesn't accept the Flames opening offer it's doomed!"
A deal will get done but it will be a better deal for the City, one that acknowledges the true value of the City's contribution.
Aside from public dollars the City kicks into the buildings themselves, let's remember that the City will be spending more than that.
The City will have to realign Bow Trail in some fashion. You can't have that road cutting off access to the riverbank.
They'll also be contributing highly desireable and valuable land (after remediation) but won't receive a single dollar in property tax revenue from what is gifted for the buildings.
The opportunity cost has got to be several hundred million dollars when considering land value and future tax revenues together.
The Flames owners are going to have to dig a bit deeper into their pockets and I believe (eventually) they will.
