Connecticut School Shooting

[Kybosh]

Yesterday morning I had a meeting that went really well and could turn into some big things for myself. I was on top of the world, then immediately after getting back to my office I heard about this. I've been physically ill since then just thinking about the events. Horrible doesn't even begin to describe what happened.

[dammage79]

TURN OFF THE NEWS.......

Morgan Freeman's brilliant take on what happened yesterday :

"You want to know why. This may sound cynical, but here's why.

It's because of the way the media reports it. Flip on the news and watch how we treat the Batman theater shooter and the Oregon mall shooter like celebrities. Dylan Klebold and Eric Harris are household names, but do you know the name of a single *victim* of Columbine? Disturbed
people who would otherwise just off themselves in their basements see the news and want to top it by doing something worse, and going out in a memorable way. Why a grade school? Why children? Because he'll be remembered as a horrible monster, instead of a sad nobody.


CNN's article says that if the body count "holds up", this will rank as the second deadliest shooting behind Virginia Tech, as if statistics somehow make one shooting worse than another. Then they post a video interview of third-graders for all the details of what they saw and heard while the shootings were happening. Fox News has plastered the killer's face on all their reports for hours. Any articles or news stories yet that focus on the victims and ignore the killer's identity? None that I've seen yet. Because they don't sell. So congratulations, sensationalist media, you've just lit the fire for someone to top this and knock off a day care center or a maternity ward next.

You can help by forgetting you ever read this man's name, and remembering the name of at least one victim. You can help by donating to mental health research instead of pointing to gun control as the problem. You can help by turning off the news."


I am with all this except the gun control part. Maybe its because I am Canadian or maybe I just have never developed a taste for guns, but the U.S still needs to do something about their gun control. I still find it stupid you can get your guns and ammo at walmart.

[Displaced Flames fan]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

DFF, is that you?



While there is much to dislike about generalities, the attitudes of many american posters in this thread illustrate one of the reasons those generalities exist. There is a fundamental reticence in American culture to deal with gun crime by limiting the access to firearms.

It's just that simple. Most of the Americans in this thread will not entertain/get on board that the access to firearms needs to be restricted. What else is there to say?

I'm someone who enjoys gun sports. I don't personally own any, but my Dad does and when I move back home I will certainly own some firearms.

That said, I despise the NRA and their all or nothing view of guns. I think we DO need stronger gun control laws. I think some categories of firearms should be banned.

I guess most folks are afraid of the ol' slippery slope. Most Americans have always been brought up with an inherent distrust of government.

All that said, I do believe that there is an inherent danger in certain entertainment that can cause a disconnect from reality and if that kind of entertainment isn't monitored by responsible parents it can have disastrous consequences.

[MelBridgeman]

Originally Posted by dammage79

TURN OFF THE NEWS.......

Morgan Freeman's brilliant take on what happened yesterday :

Really? Pretty sure that same take is found in this thread and others before Morgan opened up his yapper - Did Morgan read Calgary Puck to come up with that?
IF so than that is brillant

So by blaming the media - you are actually really blaming everyone - cause the media only delivers what is in demand and that demand comes from us.

[oldschoolcalgary]

and... another shooting in the US, 24 hrs later.

3 injured in an alabama hospital shooting...again, could have been a lot worse, and probably wouldn't have gotten press at all, except for the timing so quickly after the Newtown incident

[nfotiu]

Originally Posted by dammage79

TURN OFF THE NEWS.......

Morgan Freeman's brilliant take on what happened yesterday :

"You want to know why. This may sound cynical, but here's why.

It's because of the way the media reports it. Flip on the news and watch how we treat the Batman theater shooter and the Oregon mall shooter like celebrities. Dylan Klebold and Eric Harris are household names, but do you know the name of a single *victim* of Columbine? Disturbed
people who would otherwise just off themselves in their basements see the news and want to top it by doing something worse, and going out in a memorable way. Why a grade school? Why children? Because he'll be remembered as a horrible monster, instead of a sad nobody.


CNN's article says that if the body count "holds up", this will rank as the second deadliest shooting behind Virginia Tech, as if statistics somehow make one shooting worse than another. Then they post a video interview of third-graders for all the details of what they saw and heard while the shootings were happening. Fox News has plastered the killer's face on all their reports for hours. Any articles or news stories yet that focus on the victims and ignore the killer's identity? None that I've seen yet. Because they don't sell. So congratulations, sensationalist media, you've just lit the fire for someone to top this and knock off a day care center or a maternity ward next.

You can help by forgetting you ever read this man's name, and remembering the name of at least one victim. You can help by donating to mental health research instead of pointing to gun control as the problem. You can help by turning off the news."


I am with all this except the gun control part. Maybe its because I am Canadian or maybe I just have never developed a taste for guns, but the U.S still needs to do something about their gun control. I still find it stupid you can get your guns and ammo at walmart.

Pretty much echoes my thoughts as well. I can't help but think that by far the most realistic way to do anything about these is to really restrict how these are killings are reported. There are lots of good arguments to restrict gun ownership, but I doubt restricting guns does much to stop these types of killings. Something like no video coverage, no pictures, no mention of persons name would probably go a long ways.

[J pold]

It bothers me when people blame "the media" because it just creates another faceless entity to place blame instead of looking at the real problem, ourselves. The media is just a function of the society we inhabit and it is our society that has failed here.

[Senator Clay Davis]

It's so easy to blame the media. You can blame them for exploting this for their own gain to be sure, but to say they contribute to this is wrong, when its really our own fault. But then again, what exactly are you supposed to feel when you hear 26 people and 20 children were slaughtered? Restricing information is a dangerous slope to go down. This information comes out no matter what. Its up to us to not react to it. Again, good luck with that. Its pretty much human nature to want to know more and the media is there waiting to oblige. They're a business and as such they go with what drives business. Maybe we should want them to cover more issues (like mental health?), but then they know we wouldn't watch. Its all on us.

[Cowperson]

Originally Posted by MelBridgeman

Really? Pretty sure that same take is found in this thread and others before Morgan opened up his yapper - Did Morgan read Calgary Puck to come up with that?
IF so than that is brillant

So by blaming the media - you are actually really blaming everyone - cause the media only delivers what is in demand and that demand comes from us.

It's a significant news story. It should be reported and it should be the lede story. Too bad Morgan.

I'm glad Morgan Freeman didn't suggest censorship.

However, he is preaching self-censorship, which is fine.

After Princess Di was killed, I got pretty annoyed with the preachiness of People Magazine, which appears in our house every week courtesy of Mrs. Cowperson. Their copy wasn't too much different from Freeman's message, complaining about how her death was being exploited . . . . except they were using the opportunity to deliver that message so they could feature Princess Di on their cover every other week.

So, like Morgan Freeman, I vowed to not read inside a People Magazine. And, amazingly, in spite of it turning up in my house every week, I stuck to that pledge for a year before finally relenting.

But the odds of 300+ million Americans preaching self-censorship and sticking to it is zero. We all slow down for a car wreck.

The media delivers what we ask for, nay, demand. And this is a legitimate, front-page story in any event.

Nor is there any proof it would make a difference anyway. The worst massacre in a USA school took place in the 1920's.

As I said earlier, 32% of American households have at least one gun, down from 50% in the 1970's. That means 68% of American households right now do not have a gun.

The households that do have a gun in the USA, like the one the shooter lived in, have a lot of them and are gathering more. That particular household had six guns.

22% of Canadian households have at least one gun. That means 78% do not.

I would find it hard to believe there is a way to eliminate these incidents. That's unrealistic. The first goal the USA should have is lowering the per capita incidence level to a more comparable number relative to other western, first world democracies.

Cowperson

[Mr.Coffee]

I personally think that tragedies like this are a combination of several things.

Culturally born stigmas and beliefs with the people, who have been brought up learning about their inherihant right to defend themselves. Ease of access to highly dangerous weapons. The largely inexplicable, misunderstood, and inevitable mental illnesses that permeate brains like a bell curve could predict.

What is the easiest solution to begin prevention?

A cultural shift in mentality is close to impossible provided the U.S. history as a set of events to draw conclusions. The solution to all the mentally ill is also likely an impossibility.

What does that leave? The States I think should look at access to guns.

[Thor]

Its not one thing, its a symptom of a lot of things wrong in that society.

Schools are a mess, parents work more and have less time for their kids... A failure of a health care system for many, a social safety net which fails for so many, and a host of other reasons all contribute to killings like this. Theres the drug war....

I hate when people try to simplify this into one or two reasons why, its way more complex than that, I think yes the desire to be famous at all costs is a real point, just look at the very depressing questionares done on middle schoolers in America last year, where the answers to what do you want to be when you grow up were #1 rich and #2 famous...

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/...-y-cover_x.htm

[nfotiu]

Originally Posted by J pold

It bothers me when people blame "the media" because it just creates another faceless entity to place blame instead of looking at the real problem, ourselves. The media is just a function of the society we inhabit and it is our society that has failed here.

I am not blaming the media. I just think if you take away the attention, you take away some of the motivation.

[Displaced Flames fan]

http://www.ksn.com/news/national/sto...I6lPnzyww.cspx

School shooting plot foiled in Oklahoma yesterday.

[nfotiu]

Originally Posted by Thor

Its not one thing, its a symptom of a lot of things wrong in that society.

Schools are a mess, parents work more and have less time for their kids... A failure of a health care system for many, a social safety net which fails for so many, and a host of other reasons all contribute to killings like this. Theres the drug war....

I hate when people try to simplify this into one or two reasons why, its way more complex than that, I think yes the desire to be famous at all costs is a real point, just look at the very depressing questionares done on middle schoolers in America last year, where the answers to what do you want to be when you grow up were #1 rich and #2 famous...

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/...-y-cover_x.htm

You cannot look at the actions of a handful of people in a country of 300 000 000 and say it is the result of any kind of societal problem. The problems you mention are likely part of the more preventable problems of the overall high murder rate in this country. When the states were listed above with the highest murder rates, you'll probably find that the thing they most have in common is large percentages of black people living in very poor and violent black communities, and that is an issue that can and should be addressed. As should domestic violence. Neither of those have anything to do with these types of spree killings though.

[wittynickname]

Originally Posted by Flaming Homer

Yes Obama has been fairly laxed on gun control. But I wouldnt go so far as to say he is a gun supporter. Now that he's in his second term I can really see him going to battle on this issue and no longer has to pander to the right. However If Romney had gotten into power I really wonder if he would have taken the opposite angle.

I could be wrong on this, but most of the gun laws that have changed during Obama's presidency were state laws, correct? Meaning he doesn't really have the ability to stop states from allowing conceal/carry and things of that nature. (Again, I could be off on this, I'm in holiday burned out mode)

There are so many issues that lead up to events like this. You can never completely eliminate tragedies like this--obviously there are sick people out there who are willing to ruin the lives of others. But there are ways to limit the number of attacks like this, as well as the casualties of said attacks.

I'm not sure how it is in other states, but in Pennsylvania--there are basically zero state-run mental health facilities. There was one, Mayview, about 15 miles outside of Pittsburgh, but it closed a few years ago. And where did all of their patients go? Safe houses, into family custody, or just wherever they saw fit to put them. So these people who should be under constant supervision are often left to their own devices, all at varying levels of competency.

Mental health access in this country is an absolute joke. Often times health insurance won't fully cover it, or won't cover it without including a huge deductible or copay. And without insurance, don't even bother trying. You can't afford it. Period.

So you have a whole host of people who should be under some form of psychiatric care, who are receiving none, many of whom have easy access to firearms. The media takes these stories and runs with them. It's a huge combination of problems, and there isn't any one easy answer.

Making mental health accessible and affordable and introducing more stringent gun control laws (as well as repealing some of the more ridiculous ones of late, allowing concealed weapons on campuses/in religious buildings/in bars and restaurants, etc) wouldn't eliminate the problem entirely, but it would go a long way to limiting these incidents.

EDIT: Are you effing kidding me??
http://www.examiner.com/article/conn...ning-to-picket

If anyone would ever beat down the Westboro Baptist idiots, I'd personally pay for their bail.

[OILFAN #81]

Originally Posted by Displaced Flames fan

http://www.ksn.com/news/national/sto...I6lPnzyww.cspx

School shooting plot foiled in Oklahoma yesterday.

Wow. Good thing that guy was an idiot and asked his peers to help him which ultimately foiled his plot.

[J pold]

Originally Posted by nfotiu

I am not blaming the media. I just think if you take away the attention, you take away some of the motivation.

I agree but where does that attention come from? If the media put out the up-the-minute details and no one wanted to listen how long do you think they would last?

Are you not perpetuating that attention yourself? Are you not reading the news? What is this thread if nothing more then this attention that you want diminished.

[transplant99]

With all the the theories as to why the Connecticut school shooting happened on Dec. 14 and the motives of shooter, Adam Lanzo, the Westboro Baptist Church offers a reason for the slaughter. Margie Phelps, spokesperson for the Westboro Baptist Church, blames Oklahoma's own Carrie Underwood.

“She pimped fag marriage,” Margie Phelps tweeted to Carrie Underwood on Dec. 14. “Blood of dead school kids on her hands!”

http://www.examiner.com/article/conn...rrie-underwood

[pylon]

This world is going to hell in a handbasket.

[moon]

Originally Posted by oldschoolcalgary

Gun violence in the US has been an issue for a long time. I have NO idea what you a insinuating in a discussion of gun violence by bringing up Canada and Europe which has way less incidents per capita than the US...what underlying "issues" are you even talking about?

I am insinuating that these places have had issue with gun violence at all. They were brought up because these are where the most self-righteous people come from when blaming all of America for these events.

The notion that Canadians are "making themselves feel good about themselves" by denigrating America's gun culture is laughable.

It is not laughable it is what happens when these things happen all the time.