Arena negotiation discussion. UPD: Flames release their proposal

[Flamenspiel]

Originally Posted by RM14

My co worker went on the hot house in the middle of last year. This year he has season tickets in the front row of the whites. It's funny because he thought he'd be able to sell most but he can't get anywhere close to his cost

It depends what section, I have never had a problem. Its really a performance related issue as the customer expects the home team to win.

[Wormius]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

The AHL won't come here, the travel costs would be extra ordinary.

The Flames would probably sell the Hitmen, the city would probably have to absorb the losses that the Saddledome would take with only two tenants in there.
(hitmen, Roughnecks). I think the Flames take care of a lot of the management costs and the maintenance don't they. So that would have to revert back to the City or Stampede Board as well. At some point if the scenario of the Hitmen and Roughnecks being the only two tenants. You might as well dynamite the Dome and have them play out of Max Bell.

What is the City's current revenue from the events at the Dome?

[RM14]

Originally Posted by Flamenspiel

It depends what section, I have never had a problem. Its really a performance related issue as a customer expects the home team to win.

Agreed, greens are easily recoupable. I have no idea about reds and below.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by wormius

what is the city's current revenue from the events at the dome?

$1.

[Wormius]

Originally Posted by Locke

$1.

I will pay the city $1.01 if I can put on 82 shows in the Dome. I plan to stand in the center of the Dome and yodel for 5 minutes, and then do a few jumping jacks, maybe more as I build up my stamina but I will start with just a few.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Wormius

I will pay the city $1.01 if I can put on 82 shows in the Dome. I plan to stand in the center of the Dome and yodel for 5 minutes, and then do a few jumping jacks, maybe more as I build up my stamina but I will start with just a few.

You have to absorb the Op-Costs though.

[Freeway]

Originally Posted by Locke

$1.

$1 for the lease of the Dome to the Saddledome Foundation, but the Foundation donates a set amount to Winsport, Parks Foundation and Hockey Canada every year. The amount is up to around $600,000 per season now.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Freeway

$1 for the lease of the Dome to the Saddledome Foundation, but the Foundation donates a set amount to Winsport, Parks Foundation and Hockey Canada every year. The amount is up to around $600,000 per season now.

Yeah, I'm aware that there is the mandated charitable amount, but the question was:

Originally Posted by Wormius

What is the City's current revenue from the events at the Dome?

Its $1.

The Charitable Donations are not Civic Revenue.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Muta

There was nothing wrong with the proposed site. It was actually ideal for an arena and stadium for many reasons, and would have been the catalyst for a complete (and sorely needed) redevelopment in that area. Unfortunately the cost of the project (and who was going to pay for it), the matter of the creosote cleanup and the backlash of NIMBYers became the main factors of this discussion and ultimately a more subdued 'Plan B' was proposed for the Stampede location.

CalgaryNEXT fell off the rails for a variety of reasons, but I liked the West Village location for many reasons. I've seen concepts for the same area that are not CalgaryNEXT - and not released to the public - that were absolutely gorgeous. Given this I'm optimistic about the future of the arena, even though there's no movement on it for the time being. I know what Calgarians could get down the line (and it'll be better than Edmonton!).

I'm pretty convinced that the main reason it was a non-starter was that East Village is still in progress and West Village would have taken some of that attention from developers. The funding model wasn't good, true, but there wasn't really a solid attempt to negotiate it.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by wired

I, for one am not for taxpayers footing the bill for an arena.....I am paying for a new arena I will most likely never set foot in.

Why are you even here? Are you a Flames fan? Have you never gone to a game (or other event) in the Dome? Or Rogers (since you are in Edmonton)?

[Roughneck]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

The funding model wasn't good, true, but there wasn't really a solid attempt to negotiate it.

There was nothing to negotiate. It couldn't work. It wasn't just 'not good.' It was completely a non-starter on its own.

'Hey guys, we are really close. All we need to do is sort out this little, tiny roadblock regarding the funding model. It has potential, but all we need to do to make the project work is scale the project down, pick a different location, and change the source of the city's debt repayment.'

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Roughneck

There was nothing to negotiate. It couldn't work. It wasn't just 'not good.' It was completely a non-starter on its own.

'Hey guys, we are really close. All we need to do is sort out this little, tiny roadblock regarding the funding model. It has potential, but all we need to do to make the project work is scale the project down, pick a different location, and change the source of the city's debt repayment.'

To my recollection the City never proposed any alternative. Other than "you must build in East Village/Vic Park". They never even said "we will pay cleanup - you do the rest" for example.

They didn't have to say "we are really close". They had to say "those numbers aren't doable - let's see if we can figure something out".

Is the City's WV plan "doable" in your world?

[Roughneck]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

To my recollection the City never proposed any alternative. Other than "you must build in East Village/Vic Park". They never even said "we will pay cleanup - you do the rest" for example.

Given the city's funding proposal for the Vic Park location was seen as 'bad faith' negotiating, I'm not sure people would accept "we will pay for something that isn't even in your funding model, and you pay the rest" as real negotiating.

They didn't have to say "we are really close". They had to say "those numbers aren't doable - let's see if we can figure something out".

Or they can say what they wanted. 'This isn't doable. Let's come up with something else, somewhere else.'

NEXT did not deserve negotiation.

Is the City's WV plan "doable" in your world?

Which one? The city is getting rid of the ARP to the best of my knowledge. But would a plan that doesn't involve an arena and stadium/fieldhouse taking up all the footprint and providing nothing to the CRL be doable in my world? Yes.

[Cappy]

Originally Posted by Snuffleupagus

I agree that Nenshi is full of himself and even full of s*** most of the time but fact is he will be hard to beat, he has 80% of the immigrant vote before he opens his mouth.
The other candidates have to start backing each other when they realize they can't win, Had Chabot and a few other dummy's not held out for a miracle last year and did some backing... Bill Smith may have been be the new Mayor.

Oh, and the Hitman aren't even close to "pro" hockey

Do you think Andre Chabot's supporters would move to Smith en mass? I'm not so sure.

Regardless, it's unlikely Nenshi runs again.

[Cappy]

Originally Posted by RM14

Which part of this entire thread is new?

*The hot take is the flames are likely to move to the US
*The city is releasing plans in April about Vic park redevelopment with the arena site .
*Olympic bid decision should come by May.
*new arena doesn't improve the game day experience for the most fans because the view will be worse and everything will cost more.

I quoted the comment about the CFL...

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by guzzy

Doc Seaman Calgary Foundation - $117MM contribution to the community. second largest donation in Canadian history
Mccaig tower - foothills hospital
N.Murray Edwards Charitable Foundation - also built NICU at Alberta Childrens hospital.

Some pretty big contributions right there.

Just off the top of my head

Haskayne
Cumming
MacPhail
Wilson
Southern
Mannix
Shaw
Aldred

Not many other billionaires in town, but plenty of multi-millionaires who are plenty philanthropic. There are dozens and dozens more.

I have nothing against the Flames owners. They are probably above-average as far as sports owners go. But, both off and on the ice, the organization has an unimpressive track record.

It always makes me chuckle the number of times in these threads that people have painted owning the team as a 'hassle' or 'headache'. The ROI on franchise value has been as good as any other investment...much like a Da Vinci or limited edition Ferrari, it also extremely scarce. 120 across the continent. Only 9 of them are in Canada.


I've always been fine with public contribution if it came with a commensurate ownership stake. Then we're talking about a real partnership.

[Joborule]

After the Flames PR BS this past fall, it's karma that they're going to miss the playoffs.

The organization can add how to be a playoff team again to their to-do list.

[Boreal]

http://thestarphoenix.com/news/local...-option-report

Interesting report on the similar aged Saskplace in Saskatoon.

A new arena and expanded convention centre would cost an estimated $330 to $375 million, depending on the location, and would not include land, infrastructure or relocation costs, according to the study. The cost to renovate SaskTel Centre at its current site is estimated to be $101 million, though the study notes that “problems associated with its poor location on the periphery of Saskatoon” would continue. Theatre renovation costs at TCU Place would be an estimated $18.5 million.

I can't wait to get my popcorn because this will be something to watch. Well, actually not watch, because nothing will happen and they will let the existing facilities rot in place.

[Looch City]

Originally Posted by Joborule

After the Flames PR BS this past fall, it's karma that they're going to miss the playoffs.

The organization can add how to be a playoff team again to their to-do list.

Maybe this team needs some alternative motivation:

We'll build you an arena with 75% tax payer funds, if you make the playoffs for the next 3 consecutive years. If successful, arena funds would be approved in spring 2021.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Iggy City

Maybe this team needs some alternative motivation:

We'll build you an arena with 75% tax payer funds, if you make the playoffs for the next 3 consecutive years. If successful, arena funds would be approved in spring 2021.

Have you seen how this team handles pressure?