Coalition Deal To Topple Minority Tory Govt- [Update Parliament Prorogued until Jan]

[C_Rush]

Originally Posted by peter12

Are you just some jackass?

Seems like a rhetorical question.....

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by peter12

Are you just some jackass?

Constructive.

[Thunderball]

Originally Posted by Devils'Advocate

How is that? They are going to get 10 people to cross the floor? Good luck with that. Belinda Stronach x 10.

And think about what you are saying here. You want people elected on one platform supporting another. I thought you guys were against that and should someone do that, they should have the cahones to resign their seat and run a new byelection in their riding.

When I'm talking partnership, I'm referring to making legislation that is palatable to more than one party as a whole rather than steal individual members.

Normally, floor crossing is pretty low and borderline undemocratic. If there was no coalition talk, I'd be disappointed to see Liberals crossing the floor.

However, in a situation where a party is going beyond its elected mandate and sacrificing a "moderate centrist" stand in favor of two smash and grab leftist parties, I think party solidarity kind of gets tossed out the window. That's ditto for Bloc members who are soft federalists. Since we're forcing a functioning government, turnabout is fairplay, and within the boundaries of Westminster system.

[peter12]

Originally Posted by C_Rush

Seems like a rhetorical question.....

No, I know. I already know the answer.

[Frequitude]

Originally Posted by driveway

An argument can be made that a coalition government consisting of the NDP and Liberals would have a mandate to govern, considering they earned a total of 6,147,065 votes and 44.4% of the popular vote.

But you're completely ignoring the segment of Liberal or NDP voters who do not support a coalition that gives the seperatists that much power. Nekhara is a good example. As he stated earlier, he'd NDP but does not support the Bloc carrying such a big stick.

You're also forgetting the moderate liberals who see the NDP as too far left. By doing so, the Liberals are opening up the middle for the Conservatives' taking.

Just because someone voted for a party, does not mean they'd support their party getting into bed with one they strongly oppose.

[driveway]

Originally Posted by FanIn80

Oh look... a majority. Imagine that.

(I can use numbers to prove my point too.)

Now you're just arguing for the sake of arguing. I wasn't trying to imply that a Liberal/NDP/Bloc coalition is the actual choice of Canadians, merely pointing out that, using the voting numbers from the last election, it's pretty easy to make the argument that those three parties combined have the support of the majority of Canadians.

Your numbers arguments on the other hand are based on pure conjecture and seemingly willfull obtuseness.

The Conservatives have a minority government because a minority of Canadians voted for them. They have a larger minority than anyone else, but it's still a minority.

If they can't make it work, and the other parties can, then the three oposition parties have, under the laws of Canada, the legal right to do so.

[Phaneuf3]

Originally Posted by Frequitude

Just because someone voted for a party, does not mean they'd support their party getting into bed with one they strongly oppose.

Awww sure it does - no price is too high to crush those evil conservatives.

[Frequitude]

Originally Posted by Jade

The way this is coming together, it would appear that stealing power was the plan all along. The leaked transcripts make it sound like this was being planned even before anything came out from the conservatives. The liberals obviously had no plans to compromise, and instead found a way to take the power they feel they are entitled to.

Exactly. It all smells very very fishy. Especially with the leaking of the conference call, I don't think the NDP/Liberals can sell it as "we need economic stimulus, yo" anymore. The average Canadian is not that stupid.

[Phaneuf3]

Originally Posted by driveway

I wasn't trying to imply that a Liberal/NDP/Bloc coalition is the actual choice of Canadians

You weren't? Here were your exact words about what this coalition would be:

the clear choice of the majority of Canadians

[driveway]

Originally Posted by Frequitude

But you're completely ignoring the segment of Liberal or NDP voters who do not support a coalition that gives the seperatists that much power. Nekhara is a good example. As he stated earlier, he'd NDP but does not support the Bloc carrying such a big stick.

You're also forgetting the moderate liberals who see the NDP as too far left. By doing so, the Liberals are opening up the middle for the Conservatives' taking.

Just because someone voted for a party, does not mean they'd support their party getting into bed with one they strongly oppose.

I absolutely agree. I'm just pointing out that the raw votes are there to support this coalition. If this plan goes through and Canadians truly don't like it, we will have the opportunity to vote again in 30 months and express their displeasure to these parties.

You weren't? Here were your exact words about what this coalition would be...

As stated above, I was just pointing out that, based on the voting numbers of the past election, it's a pretty easy argument to make that: combined, the Bloc, NDP, and Liberals recieved the most votes, therefore a Bloc, NDP, Liberal coalition would have a mandate to govern.

[FanIn80]

Originally Posted by driveway

Now you're just arguing for the sake of arguing. I wasn't trying to imply that a Liberal/NDP/Bloc coalition is the actual choice of Canadians, merely pointing out that, using the voting numbers from the last election, it's pretty easy to make the argument that those three parties combined have the support of the majority of Canadians.

Your numbers arguments on the other hand are based on pure conjecture and seemingly willfull obtuseness.

The Conservatives have a minority government because a minority of Canadians voted for them. They have a larger minority than anyone else, but it's still a minority.

If they can't make it work, and the other parties can, then the three oposition parties have, under the laws of Canada, the legal right to do so.

No it isn't easy to make that argument, because to do so, you'd have to ignore the very real fact that the people that voted in the last election were not voting for a combined Liberal/NDP/Bloq party. You can not use the numbers from any previous election to imply anything about this coup.

Just because it doesn't fit with your particular brand of spin, doesn't make my argument incorrect. In fact, my argument is the only one that actually takes reality into account. You're just adding up numbers that have absolutely no relevant value whatsoever.

[C_Rush]

Ignatief supporting coalition and Dion as PM within that coalition (as per CTV Newsnet). So basically, six weeks after resoundingly rejecting the Liberal platform and Stephane Dion as PM, Canadian voters will have their opinion disregarded by a coalition with absolutely no mandate to govern. Welcome to the new democracy, Canada...

[kevman]

Originally Posted by Frequitude

Just because someone voted for a party, does not mean they'd support their party getting into bed with one they strongly oppose.

Exactly! To simply add the numbers up is ignorant. There will be Liberal, and NDP/Bloc, supporters who DO NOT support this coalition and therefore the numbers will be lower. Not everyone that voted Lib/NDP/Bloc are ABC...

[GirlySports]

"Liberals confirm that Stephane Dion will lead the new coalition."

Thoughts?

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by Frequitude

Jack Layton anywhere near the federal wallet or Minister of Industry position would not be the same.


What lack of plans?!? Harper has said it will be addressed in the next budget and that he has been seeking input from the G20 Finance Ministers and leading economists. Flaherty has said it would not be wise to launch a stimulus package without knowing what the Americans are going to do first, and that everything will be addressed in the budget.

Sounds like they have a plan to me.

That proves my point. "Waiting and seeing" is not a plan. People have been asking some pretty simple questions lately, and his answer of "it will be addressed in the next budget" does not answer any of that and it really isn't acceptable. He needs to be a little more forthcoming in his responses to what could be the biggest issue in this country in the past 30 years. Either he isn't confident in what he plans to do, or he isn't sure.

"Our plan is to wait and see what happens, and then we will react to it..." ... yeah, right. I'm sure if a Liberal said the same thing, it wouldn't be perceived in such a positive light.

[Finner]

Originally Posted by Ronald Pagan

Not to mention that Harper's economic policy indicates that he does not remember anything from his economics degree.

Laughable point to bandy about. Harper has an economics degree. Oh yeah? Great, prove to me that he uses it because there's a steady stream of evidence indicating that most of his economic policies were misguided. Look no further than the GST cut which almost every economist was critical of.

You mean the GST cut the UK just instituted as well? Are you kidding me? We should be cutting it more.

[Boblobla]

Originally Posted by C_Rush

Ignatief supporting coalition and Dion as PM within that coalition (as per CTV Newsnet). So basically, six weeks after resoundingly rejecting the Liberal platform and Stephane Dion as PM, Canadian voters will have their opinion disregarded by a coalition with absolutely no mandate to govern. Welcome to the new democracy, Canada...

Here as well:

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2008/...ion-talks.html

Liberal caucus members agreed unanimously on Monday that Stéphane Dion will stay on to lead a Liberal-NDP coalition, following reports that the two parties reached a tentative agreement to replace the minority Conservative government.
In an hour-long meeting, Dion received support from all three Liberal MPs vying to replace him as Liberal leader, Michael Ignatieff, Bob Rae and Dominic LeBlanc, the CBC's Susan Bonner reported from outside the House of Commons.
After the caucus meeting, Liberal MP Jim Karygiannis confirmed the decision on Dion's interim position was "a done deal," while the leadership campaign to replace him will continue.

[Phaneuf3]

Originally Posted by driveway

As stated above, I was just pointing out that, based on the voting numbers of the past election, it's a pretty easy argument to make that: combined, the Bloc, NDP, and Liberals recieved the most votes, therefore a Bloc, NDP, Liberal coalition would have a mandate to govern.

So - add up the raw numbers of the CPC and Liberals from last election and its clear that the majority of Canadians that went to the polls were looking for a CPC and Liberal coalition. They are the clear choice. How dare you go against the will of the majority and my flawless logic?

That's the way this works, right?

[FanIn80]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

That proves my point. "Waiting and seeing" is not a plan. People have been asking some pretty simple questions lately, and his answer of "it will be addressed in the next budget" does not answer any of that and it really isn't acceptable. He needs to be a little more forthcoming in his resonses to what could be the biggest issue in this country in the past 30n years. Either he isn't confident in what he plans to do, or he isn't sure.

Sorry, dude. But you're wrong. Canadians elected the CPC because they were going to take their time and deal with this properly, NOT jump around and thrown money at everything that moves.

This BS stimulus package that the Socialists are demanding is the absolute worst thing we can do right now. At least until after we see what the US is doing with the Auto industry in the States.

[burn_this_city]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

"Liberals confirm that Stephane Dion will lead the new coalition."

Thoughts?

Even my liberal girlfriend hates him..