[PGT] Flames 1 @ Golden Knights 6

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by Bingo

2nd on the team in actual production in the second half of the season.

Last 41 games ...

Kadri 1.79 Pts/60
Sharangovich 1.68 Pts/60

It that nice play between Sharangovich and Parekh ends up going in, instead of hitting the crossbar, this discussion is probably much different.

[Flame On]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Are we suggesting calling a dogpile a dogpile is close-minded? lol

Y’all wild, here’s the definition:
a barrage of criticism, insults, etc. directed at someone or something by many people

Don't play games, its obvious calling something a dog-pile belittles the stance behind legitimate criticism and reduces it down to the basis of a mob mentality with no merit.
So YES.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Flame On

Don't play games, its obvious calling something a dog-pile belittles the stance behind legitimate criticism and reduces it down to the basis of a mob mentality with no merit.
So YES.

You don't see the difference between suggesting something is becoming a dogpile and telling someone they aren't being truthful and don't actually watch the games?

[Major Major]

Huska was always a rebuild coach. Cheap, good soldier, players coach, culture guy. Very solid coach for this stage of the team. I do always chuckle that Conny said in his hiring presser that he liked how Huska didn't focus on winning in the AHL and put more focus on development (paraphrase of course). Perfect rebuild guy.

Could he grow with this team and coach them to play a more offensive style? Sure. I'm not predicting it, but I believe that's the intent here.

Let him do his defensive structure thing for another season on top of this one. Keep building fundamentals, keep losing hockey games. Then when the roster is young and more talented, give the job to Iggy and let him be our first offensive minded coach we've had since... I can't remember that far back.

[kehatch]

Looks like the Flames are piling on to the Sharangovich "dogpile" with a healthy scratch.

[Flame On]

Originally Posted by Bingo

You don't see the difference between suggesting something is becoming a dogpile and telling someone they aren't being truthful and don't actually watch the games?

Well I think we're arguing different things. You're objecting to being told you aren't truthful and don't watch games. I'm not making that case. (And fair enough who would enjoy that)
I'm objecting to a group of people reaching a consensus on a discussion board being called dog-pilers because it happens to be a negative consensus.
So yeah I see the difference in that sense.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Flame On

Well I think we're arguing different things. You're objecting to being told you aren't truthful and don't watch games. I'm not making that case. (And fair enough who would enjoy that)
I'm objecting to a group of people reaching a consensus on a discussion board being called dog-pilers because it happens to be a negative consensus.
So yeah I see the difference in that sense.

Not sure there is much left that we disagree on.

I'm not a huge Sharangovich fan but when you look at the stats and not the fact that he's isn't a physical player it appears he's taking more criticism than his share from many ... which sort of feels like a dogpile.

But I can retract the term if you want!

The don't watch the games thing is sort of hilarious when it's directed to the one person that HAS to watch the games in order to drop 1400 word game stories every game night!

[BigThief]

Originally Posted by kehatch

Looks like the Flames are piling on to the Sharangovich "dogpile" with a healthy scratch.

How can you scratch a guy that scored goals two years ago!! Or whatever Enoch Root said before the season started.

Guys been coasting, last year he was invisible for most of the time and he's continued it to start this season.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Flame On

Don't play games, its obvious calling something a dog-pile belittles the stance behind legitimate criticism and reduces it down to the basis of a mob mentality with no merit.
So YES.

You’re welcome to your opinion but I don’t think your definition is “obvious.”. Dogpile has nothing to do with whether the criticism is legitimate or not (in this case it mostly is). Maybe you’re piling on because you’re sucked into the mob mentality of it, I don’t know, but nobody suggested that.

If there is another word you find less offensive to describe many people targeting and individual with the same criticism in quick succession then perhaps you could share instead of accusing people of “playing games.”

[Bonded]

Instead of arguing about the definition of dog piling can someone make up another fake quote

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Not sure there is much left that we disagree on.

I'm not a huge Sharangovich fan but when you look at the stats and not the fact that he's isn't a physical player it appears he's taking more criticism than his share from many ... which sort of feels like a dogpile.

But I can retract the term if you want!

The don't watch the games thing is sort of hilarious when it's directed to the one person that HAS to watch the games in order to drop 1400 word game stories every game night!

The criticism is an extension of last season where he didn't show up until the last few months. I don't have any issues with him being benched because it's been a long time coming quite frankly. Hopefully it motivates him and he can get back to at least 20 goal pace as that contract isn't going anywhere and if he can't get it going this season they may best be served just buying him out over the summer.

[SuperMatt18]

I don't think Sharangovich has been any better or worse than any of Zary, Frost, Lomberg, Kirkland, Gridin, Klapka or even Kadri

The only players I'd say have been better than Sharangovich for sure have been Backlund, Coleman, Honzek, and Farabee.

It's fine to scratch him, but honestly Zary, and Lomberg probably deserve at least one game in the press box too.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

I don't think Sharangovich has been any better or worse than any of Zary, Frost, Lomberg, Kirkland, Gridin, Klapka or even Kadri

The only players I'd say have been better than Sharangovich for sure have been Backlund, Coleman, Honzek, and Farabee.

It's fine to scratch him, but honestly Zary, and Lomberg probably deserve at least one game in the press box too.

Add Huberdeau to the + list (even smaller sample size) but you’re bang on.

Zary, Gridin, Frost, Klapka, Kirkland, and Lomberg have all been worse. Maybe the 4th line is just a disaster, and as much as people didn’t like him, Kirkland is a big step down from Rooney.

Gridin got justifiably sent down so he can work on his game, but looked promising. Zary and Lomberg need to sit to get their heads right, and Frost should probably take a bump down or get some new linemates.

Zary, Frost, and Kirkland have all been good in the faceoff circle but that’s close to it.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Add Huberdeau to the + list (even smaller sample size) but you’re bang on.

Zary, Gridin, Frost, Klapka, Kirkland, and Lomberg have all been worse. Maybe the 4th line is just a disaster, and as much as people didn’t like him, Kirkland is a big step down from Rooney.

Gridin got justifiably sent down so he can work on his game, but looked promising. Zary and Lomberg need to sit to get their heads right, and Frost should probably take a bump down or get some new linemates.

Zary, Frost, and Kirkland have all been good in the faceoff circle but that’s close to it.

Rooney took so much heat. And before him Trevor Lewis.

[Mathgod]

Originally Posted by Bingo

2nd on the team in actual production in the second half of the season.

Last 41 games ...

Kadri 1.79 Pts/60
Sharangovich 1.68 Pts/60

I've already discussed at length the reasons why this isn't as meaningful as it may appear at first glance.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Mathgod

I don't know. Every game has either been a back to back or vs the cup favorite.

Seems a tad early to be writing the season off.

they are also top 4 in expected goals against 5 on 5

can't get a goal or a save

[Infinit47]

Zary plays best with puck possession linemates....which Lomberg is not. Lomberg plays best with north/south get it deep and hit somebody or outwork them type linemates...which Zary is not.

I think putting Zary and Lomberg on the same line actually makes them both look worse than they are.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by dino7c

they are also top 4 in expected goals against 5 on 5

can't get a goal or a save

Oh this crap

Some people will never get it

Flames could give the other team ten 5 on 0’s and some idiot would say at some point you just need a save

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by Infinit47

Zary plays best with puck possession linemates....which Lomberg is not. Lomberg plays best with north/south get it deep and hit somebody or outwork them type linemates...which Zary is not.

I think putting Zary and Lomberg on the same line actually makes them both look worse than they are.

Lomberg has made every linemate worse the last two seasons.

Zary - With Lomberg: 33.2% xGF, Without Lomberg: 52.5% xGF
Klapka - With: 45.2% xGF, w/o: 57.8% xGF
Sharangovich - With: 33.6% xGF, w/o 50.6% xGF
Pospisil - With: 46.7% xGF, w/o 48.1% xGF
Pelletier - With: 46.0% xGF, w/o 53.1% xGF
Coronato - With 46.9% xGF, w/o 51.9% xGF

His presence pretty much means the 4th line is going to be ineffective from an offensive and possession perspective. And it means that when you do have young players like Klapka, Pelletier, Coronato etc that get called up, they look bad by association because that line instantly gets dummied by the opposition

It's not just Lomberg's fault the last two years, because Rooney and Kirkland have been just as bad. Both with and without Lomberg.

Kirkland - With: 47.4% xGF, w/o: 26.6% xGF
Rooney - With 44.4% xGF, w/0: 40.0% xGF

17 forwards have played 150 or more minutes for the Flames since the start of last season. The bottom 3 in xGF%:

Kirkland: 41.9% xGF
Lomberg: 43.9% xGF
Rooney: 43.9% xGF

The next worst is Pospisil at 48.0%...

It will be a great day when we no longer have to worry about any of Lomberg, Kirkland, or Rooney consistently being on our 4th line, putting up no points and sub 45% xGF, while also blocking opportunities for younger players. 1 down, 2 to go.

[Infinit47]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

Lomberg has made every linemate worse the last two seasons.

Zary - With Lomberg: 33.2% xGF, Without Lomberg: 52.5% xGF
Klapka - With: 45.2% xGF, w/o: 57.8% xGF
Sharangovich - With: 33.6% xGF, w/o 50.6% xGF
Pospisil - With: 46.7% xGF, w/o 48.1% xGF
Pelletier - With: 46.0% xGF, w/o 53.1% xGF
Coronato - With 46.9% xGF, w/o 51.9% xGF

His presence pretty much means the 4th line is going to be ineffective from an offensive and possession perspective. And it means that when you do have young players like Klapka, Pelletier, Coronato etc that get called up, they look bad by association because that line instantly gets dummied by the opposition

It's not just Lomberg's fault the last two years, because Rooney and Kirkland have been just as bad. Both with and without Lomberg.

Kirkland - With: 47.4% xGF, w/o: 26.6% xGF
Rooney - With 44.4% xGF, w/0: 40.0% xGF

17 forwards have played 150 or more minutes for the Flames since the start of last season. The bottom 3 in xGF%:

Kirkland: 41.9% xGF
Lomberg: 43.9% xGF
Rooney: 43.9% xGF

The next worst is Pospisil at 48.0%...

It will be a great day when we no longer have to worry about any of Lomberg, Kirkland, or Rooney consistently being on our 4th line, putting up no points and sub 45% xGF, while also blocking opportunities for younger players. 1 down, 2 to go.

Fair point. I guess the question is why does the coaching staff love Lomberg so much?