[News] The Athletic - NHL Owner Rankings - Murray Edwards 30th

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

Can you PLEASE stop saying stuff like this. No one wants to be in the mushy middle. Just because people don't agree with your specific ideas on how to get out of there, doesn't mean that's what people want the mushy middle.

Or better yet show me ONE POST where someone says they are "fine with being in the mushy middle."

You are pissing in the wind with this request.

[Reign of Fire]

Originally Posted by Rhett44

I agree with all this, but a lot of fans are seemingly fine with being in the mushy middle.

It's just a matter of what % of your fanbase really wants a change and how can we actually make them commit to a rebuild. I don't know the answer.

I don't think they are happy being in the mushy middle. I think they just hope to catch lightning in a bottle every year. Score a goal or two each game and hope the goalie can win the games all the way to the cup

[musth]

Originally Posted by Reign of Fire

I don't think they are happy being in the mushy middle. I think they just hope to catch lightning in a bottle every year. Score a goal or two each game and hope the goalie can win the games all the way to the cup

Because, the last time they were a solid team and didn't have to 'get in and anything can happen' was, like 1995, maybe, maybe even back as far as 1990, when they were last a legitimate contender.

[Badgers Nose]

Originally Posted by cam_wmh

Grateful, Lol.

Are you suggesting the Flames would have trouble with finding owners?

The Flames have had well over a dozen involved with Flames ownership in it's tenure. Seems its really only been the one with the terrible image, and overreaching involvement.

It took a consortium of some of Calgary richest people to get the team in the first place, back when NHL teams were relatively dirt cheap. Not one of them wanted to buy the team on their own.

NHL teams, like sport franchises in general, have sky rocketed in value.

Now the team is probably worth $2B US. Murray's net worth including the Flames is $4-5B. So he owes a lot of his net worth to the Flames. Since 1994 it's been a great investment.

If he sold it now, anyone stepping up solo to buy the Flames is going to want to turn that $2B into 3, 4 or 5. Are they going to want to wait decades to get that return, or turn to something quicker?

A group buy is even harder. Any 'doing it for the community' group is not going to have members that want to tie up billions just to keep it local. So it has to be a bigger group, where people put up hundreds of millions. They have to be aligned too. Getting a large group together now would be really tough. I've never even heard a peep of anything like this happening.

Murray doesn't want to sell, so you'd have to convince him to sell it - that makes the price higher.

All that to say, yeah we are lucky to have a team. Love it or don't, who cares? They survived the late 90s relocation scare, they know how to survive in Calgary, and they know this market better than we do. Notwithstanding crazy #### like the Maloney interview.

Calgary Flames is a business, it makes a certain product. Buy it or don't. Screaming about how you want it to be a different product or a different business owner (LOL) is pointless. The formula hasn't changed for 30 years, and it won't any time soon. I'd bet that 90% of Flames fans are fine with it.

They watch the games, go home or turn the TV off, and do other things until the next Flames game.

[MrMike]

Originally Posted by Macindoc

Well, TBH, the "willingness to spend" is pure fantasy, given that the Flames have spent to the cap pretty much every season before this one, and that not spending to the cap was a deliberate strategy this season.

How long did we go without a new arena?

Sure could have not forced tax payers under the threat of the team leaving.

Willingness to not have playoff revenue?

Willingness to take major losses in a season to grow?

Willingness to do what is necessary for a small market team to be successful?

But that’s just my opinion.

[cam_wmh]

Originally Posted by Badgers Nose

It took a consortium of some of Calgary richest people to get the team in the first place, back when NHL teams were relatively dirt cheap. Not one of them wanted to buy the team on their own.

NHL teams, like sport franchises in general, have sky rocketed in value.

Now the team is probably worth $2B US. Murray's net worth including the Flames is $4-5B. So he owes a lot of his net worth to the Flames. Since 1994 it's been a great investment.

If he sold it now, anyone stepping up solo to buy the Flames is going to want to turn that $2B into 3, 4 or 5. Are they going to want to wait decades to get that return, or turn to something quicker?

A group buy is even harder. Any 'doing it for the community' group is not going to have members that want to tie up billions just to keep it local. So it has to be a bigger group, where people put up hundreds of millions. They have to be aligned too. Getting a large group together now would be really tough. I've never even heard a peep of anything like this happening.

Murray doesn't want to sell, so you'd have to convince him to sell it - that makes the price higher.

All that to say, yeah we are lucky to have a team. Love it or don't, who cares? They survived the late 90s relocation scare, they know how to survive in Calgary, and they know this market better than we do. Notwithstanding crazy #### like the Maloney interview.

Calgary Flames is a business, it makes a certain product. Buy it or don't. Screaming about how you want it to be a different product or a different business owner (LOL) is pointless. The formula hasn't changed for 30 years, and it won't any time soon. I'd bet that 90% of Flames fans are fine with it.

They watch the games, go home or turn the TV off, and do other things until the next Flames game.

I don't disagree finding a buying consortium isn't easy. And, of course we've heard nothing of the team being for sale.

They've been able to do it, twice with different groups, and with the digital age these days would help accelerate identifying buyers. The buying price is relative, as net worth of the wealthy, both old & anew, have increased (3x as many billionaires as 15 yrs ago for example)


Sidebar;
I'm not sure none of them wanted? to own it on their own, as much as they couldn't and needed to unify; I understood it as the Seaman brothers, were first out the gate, and then Skalbania originally a competing offer, was part of the unified consortium.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Yanda

I think the point here is to emphasize that now is the time to be more vocal as a fanbase of our disproval. Were a proud fanbase.. but proud of what? That we will try hard when we were never a true contender in the first place.

When he says "fine with being in the mushy middle." its really just satire that he wishes there was more of a vocal majority. In this case Quiet = Content with the situation.

There is nothing worse than having a a quiet majority that suffers of pride complex made by ownership to try squeeze into the playoffs an extra time each decade. "The Winning Culture" of last season is just propaganda from ownership to justify staying mediocre in hopes of a short playoff run for a small boost in revenue.

I'll go a different direction on this, I think Edwards knows where his Calgary Flames 'bread is buttered' and thats the STHs and the luxury boxes and they want to see a game.

Yeah if we're getting stuffed they'll chat about their Portfolios or WTI fluctuations but their seats, boxes and tickets are still paid for.

Its a much tougher sell if the team is wholeheartedly hot ass.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by gvitaly

I don't think not spending to the cap is an issue this year. The lack of an appetite to buy out a guy like Neal was a bit shortsighted IMO. Also the rumored reluctance to retain salary on trades until the last couple of years. I also question the previous budget on coaches, or bringing in a coach over the GMs head. Moreover the Flames didn't even have an AHL team for a spell, and some of the AHL locations were not ideal.

Finally, I didn't love how the Flames handled themselves around the arena negotiations. Including threats to move the team, and the unrealistic picking of the location and budget for Calgary Next. I think the city paid way too much.

In this ranking not spending to the cap contributed to the low score...my point is the ranking is flawed nobody would want the Flames spending to the cap yet it would boost Murray's ranking on this abitrary list

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by musth

Because, the last time they were a solid team and didn't have to 'get in and anything can happen' was, like 1995, maybe, maybe even back as far as 1990, when they were last a legitimate contender.

Three division titles and 7th, 6th and 2nd overall finishes in that time period...not exactly sneak in teams

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by Locke

I'll go a different direction on this, I think Edwards knows where his Calgary Flames 'bread is buttered' and thats the STHs and the luxury boxes and they want to see a game.

Yeah if we're getting stuffed they'll chat about their Portfolios or WTI fluctuations but their seats, boxes and tickets are still paid for.

Its a much tougher sell if the team is wholeheartedly hot ass.

Our company dumped its tix I think 3 yrs back fwiw

The people who loved 2004 are 20 years on with kids and better things to do

It’s not a hugely desirable networking option for me, imo , but others’ opinions may vary

[Rutuu]

Originally Posted by cam_wmh

Charlie takes back Louise, and in ~6 yrs builds 3 chairlifts. $10-$20m a pop.
New lodges coming too.

Contrast with;
*Fernie, zero. Not even renovating the tired old lodges. No investments, albeit a few new ostentatious resort-cabins, free of annoying trees, adjacent to the overflow parking lot.
*Kicking Horse, catastrophic gondola arm failure. No investments
*Nakiska, status quo.
*Kimberley, vandalized Northstar lift, was repaired. Yay?
*Mt St Anne Quebec, Lifts were so poor maintained over years, many in disrepair that poor old Murray couldn't possibly finance it himself, so the kind Quebec government is covering half of the $100m
*Stoneham, jewel of ontario with it's newest lift only 28 years old.

And are you wondering why little johny and jane, don't love going to RCR resorts to play, like they used to?
Because RCR, started the movement of eliminating "jump"s in terrain parks almost 20 years ago. Surely, such a thing wouldn't be a cost saving measure

https://www.piquenewsmagazine.com/wh...-parks-2477664
Louise, Sunshine, Revy, Sun Peaks, Big White, Silverstar, are better equipped as major resorts to accommodate a family's ski destination needs.


Last couple years, the Vail Group (Colorado, Whistler-Blackcomb) owner, has been poking around, with interest in buying --- details muddy, at an agreement for all/some resorts.

I think I'd prefer the devil I don't know, despite all the poor publicity coming from EPIC.

Thanks for compiling.

+1 for the devil i don't know.

[1qqaaz]

I don't think Calgarians are "lucky" to have a team.

The population of the Calgary area is about 1.7 million people. There are no other sports teams within the four major sports. It's generally considered to be the 1st or 2nd richest city in Canada depending on the metric.

How the team was formed, and the difficulty of the 90s, are irrelevant.
Calgary as it is now can absolutely support an NHL team. If the Flames were to relocate, the city of Calgary would likely get another NHL team nearly instantaneously.

Not many fanbases would be able to withstand 30 years of mediocrity like Calgarians have. Yet here we are.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by 1qqaaz

I don't think Calgarians are "lucky" to have a team.

The population of the Calgary area is about 1.7 million people. There are no other sports teams within the four major sports. It's generally considered to be the 1st or 2nd richest city in Canada depending on the metric.

How the team was formed, and the difficulty of the 90s, are irrelevant.
Calgary as it is now can absolutely support an NHL team. If the Flames were to relocate, the city of Calgary would likely get another NHL team nearly instantaneously.

Not many fanbases would be able to withstand 30 years of mediocrity like Calgarians have. Yet here we are.

If Calgary lost its team to would be 10 years before another was tried. And 1.7M is the metro population, which is a lot smaller than most NHL cities - it’s the 5th smallest I think. And he NHL has been burned by going back to the same city twice.

[The Fisher Account]

Imagine being a billionaire and still being cheap

[jaydub74]

Originally Posted by Badgers Nose

It took a consortium of some of Calgary richest people to get the team in the first place, back when NHL teams were relatively dirt cheap. Not one of them wanted to buy the team on their own.

NHL teams, like sport franchises in general, have sky rocketed in value.

Now the team is probably worth $2B US. Murray's net worth including the Flames is $4-5B. So he owes a lot of his net worth to the Flames. Since 1994 it's been a great investment.

If he sold it now, anyone stepping up solo to buy the Flames is going to want to turn that $2B into 3, 4 or 5. Are they going to want to wait decades to get that return, or turn to something quicker?

A group buy is even harder. Any 'doing it for the community' group is not going to have members that want to tie up billions just to keep it local. So it has to be a bigger group, where people put up hundreds of millions. They have to be aligned too. Getting a large group together now would be really tough. I've never even heard a peep of anything like this happening.

Murray doesn't want to sell, so you'd have to convince him to sell it - that makes the price higher.

All that to say, yeah we are lucky to have a team. Love it or don't, who cares? They survived the late 90s relocation scare, they know how to survive in Calgary, and they know this market better than we do. Notwithstanding crazy #### like the Maloney interview.

Calgary Flames is a business, it makes a certain product. Buy it or don't. Screaming about how you want it to be a different product or a different business owner (LOL) is pointless. The formula hasn't changed for 30 years, and it won't any time soon. I'd bet that 90% of Flames fans are fine with it.

They watch the games, go home or turn the TV off, and do other things until the next Flames game.

I’m not sure 2 Billion is accurate, more likely to be around one as Ottawa just sold for $950,000,000.

[Robbob]

Originally Posted by jaydub74

I’m not sure 2 Billion is accurate, more likely to be around one as Ottawa just sold for $950,000,000.

With the new building for the Flames I think that goes up.

[Jason14h]

The Flames have a brand new arena coming and sports teams are about to hottest commodity on the market

The would have a lineup of buyers within hours if they wanted to sell

[CroFlames]

Originally Posted by ResAlien

God that's depressing to read. Three times out of the first round in 35 years? I know an argument against a tear it down rebuild is "gotta build a winning culture" but at what point in the past 3+ decades have we managed to build a winning culture? Pretty remarkable how loyal fans have stayed through all this.

This is an old post but spot on.

Makes the messaging from Maloney even worse.

Yes, we've sucked ass for 35 years because we refuse to properly tank. But we DARE NOT tank now lest ... we continue to suck ass and lose fans?

Earth to CSEC - the fans aren't going anywhere. Flames are the only game in town.

This is so stupid. I'm beginning to think Conny's without a contract because he wants out because they aren't giving him autonomy.

[Monahammer]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

If Calgary lost its team to would be 10 years before another was tried. And 1.7M is the metro population, which is a lot smaller than most NHL cities - it’s the 5th smallest I think. And he NHL has been burned by going back to the same city twice.

Man your face is lodged so far up dear owners hole that you're tasting his food before he does.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by dino7c

Three division titles and 7th, 6th and 2nd overall finishes in that time period...not exactly sneak in teams

Based on their results in the seasons surrounding those it is clear those were outliers. They went from division winners in 06 to the 8 seed in 07. They went from division winners to 9th in the west at the time of the Covid shutdown in 20. And went from 1st in the Pacific to 9th in the west from 22-23.

Kind of seems like they were fortunate in those years when they won the division. Losing Sutter as coach in 06 and obviously losing your best players in 22 explain those drop offs.