[PGT] Flames blow a 3rd period lead again, lose 5-4 to Seattle

[Locke]

Originally Posted by dino7c

not to mention he is making 5.9 right now anyway

His current wages dont seem particularly relevant to me at the moment.

Is he going to magically become twice as effective next year when his wages effectively double?

A player is a player. The only argument I'd likely buy is that now that he's set for life on his final contract maybe his foot is off the gas.

But its far, far too early to start making that kind of assertion.

And I'm not one of the 'Its early in the season...dont worry, its all going to be fine' kind of people.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by saillias

A bag skate kind of kicked this 0-2 stretch off though. They made a show of having a really hard practice on the weekend and had all the local media tweeting how the team stayed on the ice longer to work. They were 5-1 at the time and it was October. Maybe being normal would suffice. might be irrelevant but it just struck me as odd.

I dont know, I got the impression that this was because of their very lenient schedule.

They had so few games it seemed like he was just trying to keep them in shape?

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Locke

His current wages dont seem particularly relevant to me at the moment.

Is he going to magically become twice as effective next year when his wages effectively double?

A player is a player. The only argument I'd likely buy is that now that he's set for life on his final contract maybe his foot is off the gas.

But its far, far too early to start making that kind of assertion.

And I'm not one of the 'Its early in the season...dont worry, its all going to be fine' kind of people.

5 points in 8 games...I think a lot of star players struggle like that

I bet he has a big game in the next few...it doesn't look to me like he isn't trying...if anything he is trying too hard to do too much

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by dino7c

Out chanced the opponent 2:1

Why is the AHL goalie at the other end able to make big saves?

*sigh*

Quality of chances, not quantity

Watch the highlights

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

*sigh*

Quality of chances, not quantity

Watch the highlights

I'm talking High danger chances...check the stats
Their guy made multiple 10 bell saves

You honestly think Seattle had more quality chances in this game lol

laughable

Watch the save on Lewis, that would have been the game for Calgary

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by Locke

His current wages dont seem particularly relevant to me at the moment.

Is he going to magically become twice as effective next year when his wages effectively double?

A player is a player. The only argument I'd likely buy is that now that he's set for life on his final contract maybe his foot is off the gas.

But its far, far too early to start making that kind of assertion.

And I'm not one of the 'Its early in the season...dont worry, its all going to be fine' kind of people.

We have seen this before

Dougie Hamilton was a train wreck his first 20 games

I’m not worried

Also, some folks said Iggy had slow starts

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by dino7c

I'm talking High danger chances...check the stats
Their guy made multiple 10 bell saves

You honestly think Seattle had more quality chances in this game lol

laughable

Watch the save on Lewis, that would have been the game for Calgary

Every shot is different

Vladar can’t make the Lewis save on the Sprong shot

Think D’Accord stops that?

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

Every shot is different

Vladar can’t make the Lewis save on the Sprong shot

Think D’Accord stops that?

Seattle: High Danger Chances: 5, Expected Goals: 1.1
Calgary: High Danger Chances: 10, Expected Goals: 2.31

not my stats

honestly your bias is so ridiculous there is no point even talking to you...by every measure used to judge a hockey game their guy was better

pretty sure you were like this with Vladar last season too...making up nonsense stats that don't exist because you are the smartest guy in the room or something

[Locke]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

We have seen this before

Dougie Hamilton was a train wreck his first 20 games

I’m not worried

Also, some folks said Iggy had slow starts

I am worried. Not about Huberdeau particularly, but of the fact that this team seems adept at taking games that they're winning and finding ways to screw up so badly that they lose them.

Essentially the Anti-Sutter ethos.

I think that should be a concern.

I know its a long season, but still.

[browna]

Originally Posted by saillias

A bag skate kind of kicked this 0-2 stretch off though. They made a show of having a really hard practice on the weekend and had all the local media tweeting how the team stayed on the ice longer to work. They were 5-1 at the time and it was October. Maybe being normal would suffice. might be irrelevant but it just struck me as odd.

I think Sutter already saw some of the being in the comfort of home for a whole calendar month, creeping in to attitude and play. A hard practice to somewhat simulate a game that should've been that night in a normal schedule, was what he was trying to accomplish and regain focus. Players don't care for it either, used to playing every second day and being on the road every couple weeks to stay on their toes.

Bag skate not really worked, some bad puck luck but not paying attention to some details bit them these last two games, while also mixed in with being out of routine and at home so much with the odd scheduling.

8 of 9 games at home is odd enough, but to start a year, where you've been in town since late September before camp as well, and may not have gone on the road in preseason, is very odd.

In future if we get 8 games homestands, the last week the players have to all stay at a hotel downtown.

I also think Sutter can better use his motivational techniques when he has the mix of home and road and many games in fewer nights, to get more out of players and the team, either through rewards for playing well, and or managing the bench and toi, with the excuse of multiple games in less days.

[Kasi]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

*sigh*

Quality of chances, not quantity

Watch the highlights

I’m getting tired of these simplistic metrics. We get these reports of 10-5 or 14-7 but not all chances are created equal. Sutter even said post Edmonton they’re getting chances just not enough quality ones. I think these simple metrics that just measure shots of a certain criteria are lacking. Makes me think of baseball where there are metrics on certain categories of hits. I’m sure teams internally have better metrics. My feeling with the Flames is they’re throwing a lot of pucks at the net but winning the high chance battle isn’t really real since not all those chances are of equal quality or danger.

[FiveSeven]

#### me. Best start in history. A few crappy games. How many seasons do they have crappy stretches to begin then become amazing. Not a good result but I'm not worried even the slightest.
Huby and Lindholm need to sniff some salt though.

[Calgary '89]

The Flames are starting an ugly habit of adjusting to other teams games instead of just executing their own gameplan. You could tell there was a lot of overthinking all over the ice and they basically gifted Seattle the game.

I feel for Vladar who always seems to make huge saves when the team needs it. Last night though there were just too many ten bell chances given up by the Flames.

On the Huberdeau front, I hope he finds his groove soon cuz he doesn't look like a top line player right now.

[BlindMilwaukee]

I’m sure this has already been said a handful of times but I love Zad. He is just not a fighter though lol.

Love the heart though.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by Kasi

I’m getting tired of these simplistic metrics. We get these reports of 10-5 or 14-7 but not all chances are created equal. Sutter even said post Edmonton they’re getting chances just not enough quality ones. I think these simple metrics that just measure shots of a certain criteria are lacking. Makes me think of baseball where there are metrics on certain categories of hits. I’m sure teams internally have better metrics. My feeling with the Flames is they’re throwing a lot of pucks at the net but winning the high chance battle isn’t really real since not all those chances are of equal quality or danger.

Exactly.

People are trying their best with the metrics, but it’s just not that simple.

The stats may rely on position and context / situation or preceding event, but really generally don’t have a way to factor in defensive side

Simple example - a puck passed and shoveled in to a set goalie’s pad from 2 inches away has the same treatment as a cross crease tap in.

High danger probabilities are based on general groupings of shots that share certain attributes, and have and expected likelihood of success, based on large sample sizes, but ignore other really important factors, which actually may make the difference between the successful and unsuccessful attempts .

Shots from 8 inches out might go in 60 percent of the time, but nobody is measuring how many shots had a glove right in front of the puck

You basically need to understand the basis of the statistics, and look at the actual events, and understand how they line up

I think they are great to add to the conversation, but are kind of useless if you are going to just point at them and pretty much yell at clouds

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by BlindMilwaukee

I’m sure this has already been said a handful of times but I love Zad. He is just not a fighter though lol.

Love the heart though.

Totally agree. I feared for him when he dropped them because while he can manhandle guys during the play, he is definitely not a good fighter

[FanIn80]

"In only their second ever season, the Seattle Kraken won a divisional game in which they were outshot 40-26 by this 43 year-old NHL franchise."

"Who is the Calgary Flames?"

"Yes, that's right. They were supposed to be a contender for the league championship that year too. I am, of course, talking about the sport of hockey. Its top league is the National Hockey League and the league's championship trophy is the Stanley Cup. Alright, as you got that one correct, the board is still yours."

"Awesome, thanks Alex. I'll stay in the same category and go with Are you f####ng kidding me?! for 600..."

[Flamenfame]

Originally Posted by memphusk

Poor game all around. 10.5 gets the season start pass and there is nothing there so far. Thats more than disappointing. I'm not asking for him to move heaven and earth but Jesus man. Wake up.

1 even strength point in 8 games does not cut it looks like he is having a hard time adjusting to Sutter's coaching

[カナダ人です]

Jamie Lee Curtis was soo hot.

That is all.

/tangent

[driveway]

Originally Posted by Kasi

I’m getting tired of these simplistic metrics. We get these reports of 10-5 or 14-7 but not all chances are created equal. Sutter even said post Edmonton they’re getting chances just not enough quality ones. I think these simple metrics that just measure shots of a certain criteria are lacking. Makes me think of baseball where there are metrics on certain categories of hits. I’m sure teams internally have better metrics. My feeling with the Flames is they’re throwing a lot of pucks at the net but winning the high chance battle isn’t really real since not all those chances are of equal quality or danger.

The number one thing that's missing in the publically-available High Danger Chance metrics is whether or not an "HDC" - or any other shot for that matter - was immediately preceded by a cross-seam pass.

Shots following a pass accross the slot are - by far - the most dangerous and effective shots in hockey. Some of the paid-for hockey analytics include this data, but sites like MoneyPuck don't factor that into their models.