[Trade] Andersson (50% retained) to Vegas for 27 1st, cond 28 2nd, Whitecloud, Wiebe

[PaperBagger'14]

Originally Posted by VilleN

I don't know that the return would've been much different last year. Andersson looked pretty bad last year.

I’ve been beating this drum for quite a while now, but Andersson has significantly better career statistics than Brandon Carlo. I doubt GMs only look at a 1 year snapshot.

Conroy hamstrung himself here…again. Entirely by his own design.

[PaperBagger'14]

Originally Posted by cannon7

Andersson was coming off arguably the worst season of his career last year, what makes you think he'd have garnered more in return?

Career statistics, Andersson over doubles Carlos offensive output with Carlo having an entire extra seasons worth of games in hand.

https://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/...php?pid=165972

https://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/...php?pid=161688

[Super-Rye]

Originally Posted by VilleN

I don't know that the return would've been much different last year. Andersson looked pretty bad last year.

Yup exactly this. Ras was like eating minus' last year and wasn't very good. Apparently we could have had the Carlo deal for him but I feel like this is more value than that was at the time. Minten was close to waiver fodder and has rebounded with a change of scenery and I still expect the Toronto first to be in the 20s.

End of the day I think they got more value waiting, but it woulda been nice to get him an extension and send him off for bonkers value. Is what is.

[Robbob]

Originally Posted by Rhett44

I analyzed the trade and it isn't as bad as I thought.

We did quite well for a rental. My main frustrations were with it being Vegas, and not getting the signed return we would have from Boston. Oh well, such is life.

For a rebuild I think I prefer the Vegas trade. Especially now that the dust has settled and the Boston pick was in 27 as well. Lohrei would have stayed and would be the trade chip Whitecloud is. Plus there is the factor that Edmonton is pissed off that Vegas got better and they can't do anything about it.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by Rhett44

I analyzed the trade and it isn't as bad as I thought.

We did quite well for a rental. My main frustrations were with it being Vegas, and not getting the signed return we would have from Boston. Oh well, such is life.

I would rather have the 2nd than Poitras. I wasn't big on Poitras.
I would rather have Lohrei than Whitecloud because of the difference in age and there may be more upside there.

So kinda even there. I don't give much weight to the prospect the Flames got - he's unsigned and a long shot.

I liked the idea of the Boston deal because of the possible inclusion of the higher 1st this year, from the Toronto pick. However, Friedman seems very sure it wasn't in the deal. So it was probably one of their 2 picks next year, their own or Florida. I probably would prefer one of those over the Vegas pick as I think it has a better chance of being higher.

So based on that, I would give a slight edge to the reported Bruins deal as best we understand it, but it's not a massive difference. Again some of this is because I wasn't as high on Poitras as others. Just never saw it with that guy, including at the WJCs.

Of all the rumored deals the most attractive one was Danielson+1st, but who knows how true that ever was.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

I would rather have the 2nd than Poitras. I wasn't big on Poitras.
I would rather have Lohrei than Whitecloud because of the difference in age and there may be more upside there.

So kinda even there. I don't give much weight to the prospect the Flames got - he's unsigned and a long shot.

I liked the idea of the Boston deal because of the possible inclusion of the higher 1st this year, from the Toronto pick. However, Friedman seems very sure it wasn't in the deal. So it was probably one of their 2 picks next year, their own or Florida. I probably would prefer one of those over the Vegas pick as I think it has a better chance of being higher.

So based on that, I would give a slight edge to the reported Bruins deal as best we understand it, but it's not a massive difference. Again some of this is because I wasn't as high on Poitras as others. Just never saw it with that guy, including at the WJCs.

Of all the rumored deals the most attractive one was Danielson+1st, but who knows how true that ever was.

Floridas pick next year will be 28-32 again likely. Looks better now but once they have Barkov and Tkachuk for a full year again it won't be

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

Floridas pick next year will be 28-32 again likely. Looks better now but once they have Barkov and Tkachuk for a full year again it won't be

Probably comes down to if it was "the better of the two picks" or "the later of the two picks".

[devo22]

I think Lohrei would have fit in really well. Good age (6 months younger than Bahl), left handed, good size. I think he could have stepped up with more ice time, just like Bahl did. Bahl-Lohrei-Kuznetsov, in whatever constellation, would be have a nice trio on the left side going forward. In any case, I think he'd have been a much better fit than Whitecloud. That starts with age (25 vs 29), but I also think the L-R thing is a factor when you have up and coming RDs like Parekh and Brzustewicz.

All of that is before you factor in that Vegas is a divisional rival and strengthening their team is counterproductive when you own their 1st. Obviously Boston would have only made a move with an extension, so not really worth crying over spilt milk. But I for one would have MUCH prefered trading with Boston and adding someone like Lohrei.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by PaperBagger'14

Career statistics, Andersson over doubles Carlos offensive output with Carlo having an entire extra seasons worth of games in hand.

https://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/...php?pid=165972

https://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/...php?pid=161688

Carlo has never had a minus season in his entire NHL career...Ras is better offensively but Carlo is way better defensively

You can speculate but we will never know what was available or not

[#-3]

Originally Posted by Jason14h

I would be fine with it if we traded Weegar .

I could really see a scenario where Weegar is one of only 2-3 players over 30 and the Captain in 2 years. (Right now they have 8 players over 30 on the active roster). And I think Weegar is a least curious about the opportunity that brings for him.

[PaperBagger'14]

Originally Posted by dino7c

Carlo has never had a minus season in his entire NHL career...Ras is better offensively but Carlo is way better defensively

You can speculate but we will never know what was available or not

+/- is widely considered a team stat, so to use it to argue against a single player is pretty silly. You’re right we’ll never know, but all the market comparables, and with Rasmus being a better player over his entire career, it leads to believe that Conroy massively screwed up with the asset management of Andersson.

[Enoch Root]

Did it ever occur to you that maybe Treliving screwed up, and simply paid too much for Carlo?

One outlier trade does not define a market.

[Ziggy Lidstrom]

First of all, I voted home run.

Why? Because of several reasons.

One, we move on from Ras’ offence vs middling teams we are competing against in our sacred race to the bottom. We objectively get worse which is overdue.

Two, considering the timing it’s a good offer. If people keep saying he wouldn’t have fetched much last trade deadline are operating with recency bias. His whole body of work would have guaranteed a suitable range of offers for a top 4 RHS two way dman. Teams would have taken the overall picture into account. Plus the acquiring team had his team friendly contract for a year and a half which could have served as an audition for the host city to resign him come his impending FA. This would have fetched us more than this haul. I’m not upset though.

Three, Vegas overpays for a dman that is, optically, a replacement for AP. To me it is an enormous gap between AP and RA. I’d argue that AP was the biggest reason that team won their Engravings on Lord Stanley’s chalice. Rasmus is such an average defender and slightly above average offence produced from the back end that he will definitely rub his new fan base the wrong way as soon as this year. Just wait till he signs for 9 plus million. I’m so happy he’s their property. He’s no guarantee they get a massive boost from him and hanifin. Those two are way overrated vs dominant teams and dominant forward groups. They may still flame out this year improving our 26 pick.

IMO Ras pushes them modestly above where they are. A bad injury and they may plummet even further. I think Connie knows this.


That’s why this trade is a win. What makes it a home run is the extra bullets for our scouting staff. And they probably have a better view on the Wiebe dman we picked up. They probably have a good read on him.

Finally. Whitecloud is a Tanev light player. He will fetch a lot if we move him or weegar now which I’m comfortable with. Plus all my native friends are all happy Zack is here now. They will all be taking pictures at Grey Eagle when they spot him. This contributes to the assets and value pushing this trade to way more than we got with hanifin.

See ya Ras ! Enjoy your new deal in Vegas. Stay away from golden steer and delmonicos or That foot speed of yours might disappear faster than a pension cheque at the Caesar’s palace.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by PaperBagger'14

I’ve been beating this drum for quite a while now, but Andersson has significantly better career statistics than Brandon Carlo. I doubt GMs only look at a 1 year snapshot.

Conroy hamstrung himself here…again. Entirely by his own design.

You likely do get more last year due to some term left , but the career year helps equalize it a bit.

My guess is last year the discussion would have been more around something like:

1st
2nd
B Prospect (Minten type)

So slightly More than the Carlo deal for sure (an additional 2nd), but still similar to what it returned now. Which is still more than the Carlo deal.

He also had a broken foot at the time of the deadline last year which complicates things a bit

I think a big difference is the valuation of Minten as you probably rate him more as an A prospect. Which with the benefit of hindsight is maybe fair.

But at the time if the trade last year I'd have been pissed if the Flames moved a 1st for him, and would have had his value as more of that of a 2nd rounder.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by #-3

I could really see a scenario where Weegar is one of only 2-3 players over 30 and the Captain in 2 years. (Right now they have 8 players over 30 on the active roster). And I think Weegar is a least curious about the opportunity that brings for him.

Only 7 over 30 because Coleman's not on the active roster. But yeah, Lomberg is up this year, Hanley, Coleman, Hunt only have next year on their deals, Backlund only has one after that. And they probably trade Kadri.

[PaperBagger'14]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

You likely do get more last year due to some term left , but the career year helps equalize it a bit.

My guess is last year the discussion would have been more around something like:

1st
2nd
B Prospect (Minten type)

So slightly More than the Carlo deal for sure (an additional 2nd), but still similar to what it returned now. Which is still more than the Carlo deal.

He also had a broken foot at the time of the deadline last year which complicates things a bit

I think a big difference is the valuation of Minten as you probably rate him more as an A prospect. Which with the benefit of hindsight is maybe fair.

But at the time if the trade last year I'd have been pissed if the Flames moved a 1st for him, and would have had his value as more of that of a 2nd rounder.

Maybe, but even with a center prospect it would have been significantly better than the actual return we got. We have a ton of depth at D, both the prospect and Whitecloud are a waste as players to this team. Whiteclouds value (IMO) is as a trade chip only.

[RedHot25]

Originally Posted by Rhett44

I analyzed the trade and it isn't as bad as I thought.

We did quite well for a rental. My main frustrations were with it being Vegas, and not getting the signed return we would have from Boston. Oh well, such is life.

I thought I read though the Boston return...was not as reported. I think in this thread somewhere, someone has his 32 thoughts of saying something along the lines that boston's offer was not as good as reported - only Lohrei + 27 1st (not toronto's first, and not poitras)

[TheScorpion]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

I would rather have the 2nd than Poitras. I wasn't big on Poitras.
I would rather have Lohrei than Whitecloud because of the difference in age and there may be more upside there.

So kinda even there. I don't give much weight to the prospect the Flames got - he's unsigned and a long shot.

I liked the idea of the Boston deal because of the possible inclusion of the higher 1st this year, from the Toronto pick. However, Friedman seems very sure it wasn't in the deal. So it was probably one of their 2 picks next year, their own or Florida. I probably would prefer one of those over the Vegas pick as I think it has a better chance of being higher.

So based on that, I would give a slight edge to the reported Bruins deal as best we understand it, but it's not a massive difference. Again some of this is because I wasn't as high on Poitras as others. Just never saw it with that guy, including at the WJCs.

Of all the rumored deals the most attractive one was Danielson+1st, but who knows how true that ever was.

Yeah I suspect the Flames will have a chance to get Poitras in a few years if he lands on waivers.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by PaperBagger'14

+/- is widely considered a team stat, so to use it to argue against a single player is pretty silly. You’re right we’ll never know, but all the market comparables, and with Rasmus being a better player over his entire career, it leads to believe that Conroy massively screwed up with the asset management of Andersson.

Carlo has been on mid teams...the Bruins were bottom 5 last season. Never a minus is impressive

[Cobra]

Originally Posted by dino7c

Carlo has been on mid teams...the Bruins were bottom 5 last season. Never a minus is impressive

So are you trying to say you think Carlo is better than Andersson.