[Trade] Andersson (50% retained) to Vegas for 27 1st, cond 28 2nd, Whitecloud, Wiebe

[PaperBagger'14]

Originally Posted by Andy83

And Carlo had another 2.5 seasons under team control, at the time of the trade, no? Raz turned out to be a rental. Not sure the player, or the circumstances surrounding either deal line up, so not much point in comparing them, IMO anyway.

That’s my thoughts, Conroy screwed up royally here by not trading Rasmus at the deadline last year.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by PaperBagger'14

That’s my thoughts, Conroy screwed up royally here by not trading Rasmus at the deadline last year.

You mean the Rasmus that everybody wanted to get rid of because he was a –38 that season and a bunch of you thought he was washed up?

How would that Rasmus have got a better return than this?

[Macindoc]

IMO Andersson had much less trade value last season, maybe a 2nd, based on what appeared to be a fairly steep decline. About the value Whitecloud should have this trade deadline. If the Flames trade Whitecloud for a 2nd, then they will have gained an extra 1st, conditional 1st/2nd, and Wiebe just for waiting until now to make the trade.

[getbak]

Originally Posted by PaperBagger'14

Look at the Carlo trade from last year, a first (currently 12th overall), high end center prospect (Minten) and a 4th.

We have Vegas’ first which is likely to be in the 25-32 range, a 2nd that is highly unlikely to become a first, some throw in 7th round prospect and a 6-7 defenceman.

When Toronto made the Carlo trade last year, they had the 6th best record in the league, and ended up winning their Division with the 4th best record. They didn't make the trade assuming they were trading a mid-first rounder.

Right now, Vegas has the 8th best record in the league. Who knows what their 2027 pick will look like.



If you frame the return Boston got in the best possible way, and are completely dismissive of the return the Flames got, it's easy to make the other trade look a lot better.

[PaperBagger'14]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

You mean the Rasmus that everybody wanted to get rid of because he was a –38 that season and a bunch of you thought he was washed up?

How would that Rasmus have got a better return than this?

Because the market (aka demand) was significantly higher last year and I’d think GMs aren’t that simple minded where they only look at 1 season of a players career. I’m sure they see a much bigger picture than a down season on a bad team.

[868904]

Originally Posted by gvitaly

The only question I have is regarding the log jam on RD. I think it makes it harder to give both Parekh and Brz regular minutes, unless they make another move. I might be in the minority, but I actually like Whitecloud better than Lohrei in terms of a fit with the Flames, because they already have that player in Parekh.

Weegar plays the offside very well. He would make a good partner for Parekh or Bru. Bahl mentors the other. Kuz plays with and mentored by Whitecloud.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by Brad Marsh

I voted face plant, and while I actually don't think it's that bad, I can't convince myself it should be higher than Modest Loss.

Trading Andersson to the Knights will almost certainly push the Knights up in the standings, thereby lowering the value of the 2026 1st we already traded for. We literally just traded against ourselves!!! That's such a bizarre play to me.

There was lots of talk about a 1st, a prospect, and a roster player as the expected return. I guess we got that, but the 1st will likely be one of the latest picks available in the first round next year, the roster player is a 29 year-old middle pairing RHD with term, which will almost certainly take ice time away from a developing D, and I hope I'm wrong, but characterizing the prospect as a longshot seems like an understatement.

The Flames did get the extra second rounder. That's a 21% chance for 100 points in the NHL.

Beyond that, Andersson was the team's best hope for that elusive RHS C prospect. Feels like a miss. Maybe a consequence of quantity over quality? But the team had to go quantity if they wanted a 1st round pick and a minute-cruncher coming back on D. Rebiggle.

And for those that rate this trade as expected or higher.....why?

I'm not big on "appeal to authority" - there are lots of smart people here. But I haven't seen a single trade grade that gives the edge to the Flames. I'm with Darren Haynes on this one: Pretty underwhelming.

Most grades I’ve seen give the Flames some sort of B, which is how I see it and reflects about expected value

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by PaperBagger'14

Look at the Carlo trade from last year, a first (currently 12th overall), high end center prospect (Minten) and a 4th.

We have Vegas’ first which is likely to be in the 25-32 range, a 2nd that is highly unlikely to become a first, some throw in 7th round prospect and a 6-7 defenceman.

Well the Toronto pick is currently 16th overall. It is likely to end up in the 20’s somewhere.

[PaperBagger'14]

Originally Posted by getbak

When Toronto made the Carlo trade last year, they had the 6th best record in the league, and ended up winning their Division with the 4th best record. They didn't make the trade assuming they were trading a mid-first rounder.

Right now, Vegas has the 8th best record in the league. Who knows what their 2027 pick will look like.



If you frame the return Boston got in the best possible way, and are completely dismissive of the return the Flames got, it's easy to make the other trade look a lot better.

Well the flames return isn’t good at all. A first, a second and a couple junker throw ins. Even if you call the first rounders a wash, Minten alone was worth significantly more than the rest of the trade, with the added bonus he addresses the biggest position of need for the flames.

[serratedmuffin]

The Flames got a 1st, 2nd, and a d-man on a cheap contract they could flip for a 2nd +. What more were people expecting? If you look at the historical trades for ufa d-men, Conroy got solid value. It being Vegas is understandable putting some hate blinders on people. Conroy is constantly adding picks and not letting assets walk for nothing. There is no need to get upset at hypothetical trades or when is the perfect time to trade players. The end result is net assets and moving the team in the right direction. Enjoy what you can, sports are supposed to be fun.

[PaperBagger'14]

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

Well the Toronto pick is currently 16th overall. It is likely to end up in the 20’s somewhere.

Ahh damn you’re right I was looking at the wrong standings list. Still though, the jump from 16th to 25th+ is significant

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by PaperBagger'14

Well the flames return isn’t good at all. A first, a second and a couple junker throw ins. Even if you call the first rounders a wash, Minten alone was worth significantly more than the rest of the trade, with the added bonus he addresses the biggest position of need for the flames.

Whitecloud isn't a junker throw in. He's a good defensive top 4 dman that I think will be able to return a 1st

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by PaperBagger'14

Ahh damn you’re right I was looking at the wrong standings list. Still though, the jump from 16th to 25th+ is significant

How do you know where Vegas will finish next season?

[dino7c]

Marner winning the cup his first year in Vegas is very Leafs...that and the Pacific division makes it very possible.

Marchand was traded for a conditional 2nd last deadline dont forget

[PaperBagger'14]

Originally Posted by PaperBagger'14

Well the flames return isn’t good at all. A first, a second and a couple junker throw ins. Even if you call the first rounders a wash, Minten alone was worth significantly more than the rest of the trade, with the added bonus he addresses the biggest position of need for the flames.

Originally Posted by dino7c

How do you know where Vegas will finish next season?

Doesn’t matter. If by some chance Vegas does as poorly as Toronto this year this trade is still bad because Minten is a high end prospect in a position the flames lack.

Whitecloud is a -8 on a team with a +16 goal differential, is 29 years old (doesn’t fit the rebuild timeline), has 7 points this year and plays a position that we already possess a ton of middling players at.

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by dino7c

Marner winning the cup his first year in Vegas is very Leafs...that and the Pacific division makes it very possible.

Marchand was traded for a conditional 2nd last deadline dont forget

Boston’s GM is ####ing terrible though. 8 teams he could have traded Marchand to and all he gets is a conditional 2nd. Brutal return. GM should have been fired on the spot for that trade.

Sure the bleeding hearts will talk about how he asked Marchand where he wanted to go and say treating these guys well gets around the league and that organizations have reputations with other players and agents but I say horse#### on that kinda stuff.

[Andy83]

I honestly don't understand the outrage from some posters.

If people looked at the return, in isolation, without considering all the insider chat over the last week, did any of you honestly expect more for Raz as a pure rental?

Sure, would have been great if he signed prior to the deal. But he didn't.

Hopefully, Whitecloud gets flipped for a 2nd+, and its 1 1st and 2 2nds, or 2 1sts and 1 2nd.

Pretty good for a rental 30 y/o that has made it clear he's testing FA and looking to cash in.

[Phil Russell]

There is a lot of exaggeration going on here, and speculation about unknown trade returns, that are being used to frame this as a bad trade. But, if you just stick with the facts (1st, 2nd, 4/5 D and longshot prospect), and the reality that this was a UFA rental trade, it is hard to frame this as a bad trade. And I say that as someone who believes they shouldn't be putting themselves in this position with UFAs, but also understands that they missed the playoffs by a point last year. Complicated.

[RedHawk12]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

Whitecloud isn't a junker throw in. He's a good defensive top 4 dman that I think will be able to return a 1st

Very optimistic, bordering on naive, but i like it.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by PaperBagger'14

Doesn’t matter. If by some chance Vegas does as poorly as Toronto this year this trade is still bad because Minten is a high end prospect in a position the flames lack.

Whitecloud is a -8 on a team with a +16 goal differential, is 29 years old (doesn’t fit the rebuild timeline), has 7 points this year and plays a position that we already possess a ton of middling players at.

Whitecloud is an asset.

Not all assets have to be part of the rebuild - they can also be used to acquire... other assets