[PGT] Predators defeat Flames 5-1, Dec. 2nd

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

It’s surprising to me how many fans really deeply underestimate this. It’s much easier if you’re one of those casual observers who can just check out for seasons at a time, but for the people who actually enjoys the wins and the progress and suffer the losses, oof.

Worth it in the end? You hope so. But that’s why it’s important to enjoy what little you can on the way, because you never really know.

it’s not hard to imagine a reality where Florida goes through all that and never wins a cup.

Yeah, many teams have rebuilt only to never win a cup. Posters have excuses for those teams and why they failed but at the end of the day, the Stanley Cup is probably the hardest trophy to win in sports.

And the Panthers? I’d argue their cup had less to do with tanking than who they added. Barkov is their best player, but aside from him, their cup win featured players they didn’t draft: Tkachuk, Reinhart, Tarasenko, Bennett, Verhaeghe, Rodrigues, Forsling, Montour, OEL, etc. Only 3 drafted players played key roles on their team - Barkov, Ekblad and Lundell.

And the high draft picks that were still on the team were from 10 years before - Barkov and Ekblad.

[CliffFletcher]

Confession: I don’t find regular-season hockey entertaining to watch. Full-stop. Haven’t for many years. I follow hockey during the regular season by reading articles and analysis, following stats, etc., and watching maybe 10 or 12 full games in the regular season (some of which don’t involve the Flames).

I follow hockey because of the playoffs. The pace, intensity, emotion, and stakes are so, so much higher that it’s almost a different sport. I watch 1-2 games a night almost every night of the playoffs, including lots of games that the Flames aren’t participating in. That’s the juice.

So from my POV, a regular season finish just outside the playoffs is no better than a regular season finishing at the bottom of the league. It’s worse, in fact, because of how it impacts the draft. At this point as a fan, my primary wish is for the team to draft an elite core than can contend for the Cup and go on deep playoff runs for 5-10 years. To that end, regular season results only matter insofar as they impact draft position.

That’s probably not how most fans approach the team. But I expect I’m not alone, either.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by VilleN

If it weren't for the Flames, they may not have. Last years Conn Smythe winner, and Tkachuk - both players who really helped to change the culture and style of play.

Building a winning team goes beyond just drafting good players. All cup winners have some guys that were acquired via trade.

Florida was fortunate to get Reinhart and Bennett for a discount. They were able to land Tkachuk by giving up some big pieces on their team. Jones came last year at the cost of a 1st round pick and a former 1st round pick.

They now have the 2nd and 4th overall picks from the 2013 draft, the 1st, 2nd, and 4th overall picks from the 2014 draft and the 6th pick from 2016 all in their prime ages and they have played in 3 straight finals and won twice.


I think Craig will make a big trade eventually that lands the flames a core piece he just needs to keep accumulating assets and drafting well. This team needs to make a couple of their own picks but I do suspect they will be in the hunt for any big game that fits their age bracket as soon as next summer

[Calgary4LIfe]

Originally Posted by Cali Panthers Fan

The head won over the heart tonight.

the heart is sad that they lost 5-1. It sucked to watch.

the head is happy that they lost to the only team below them in the standings, thus increasing their chances at a top pick.

Listen up all you with the hard ons for tanking, this better be ####ing worth it. This is simply not a fun team to watch this year.

You definitely won't remember this season. Why am I so sure?


Not long ago you posted about how terrible the 2013-14 season was. Really surprised me, since at the very end of that season, you were the only poster (at least that I remember) that actually predicted the Flames would make the playoffs the next season (along with Aaron Ward from TSN). You were one of the most positive posters that season. Weird that I remember that... but I am 100% sure of it.


This season sucks and it will be the worst. Losing + not much in the way of entertainment = tough watch. Next season will be better with the insertion of some young players, so the equation changes to Losing + some entertaining players = not a terrible watch.


It really is up to Conroy and the scouting staff, however. We just have to all show a little patience, that's all. We won't remember too much of this season.


I will remember Coleman though. It is unfortunate that he is a vet at the end of his contract. In a perfect world, he would have been a long-term terrible deal that you couldn't trade, so that he would be around to help develop the kids. Not that I don't look forward to seeing what the return on him would be, but boy will I miss him, and do I ever think highly of him as a leader on this team.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

Confession: I don’t find regular-season hockey entertaining to watch. Full-stop. Haven’t for many years. I follow hockey during the regular season by reading articles and analysis, following stats, etc., and watching maybe 10 or 12 full games in the regular season (some of which don’t involve the Flames).

I follow hockey because of the playoffs. The pace, intensity, emotion, and stakes are so, so much higher that it’s almost a different sport. I watch 1-2 games a night almost every night of the playoffs, including lots of games that the Flames aren’t participating in. That’s the juice.

So from my POV, a regular season finish just outside the playoffs is no better than a regular season finishing at the bottom of the league. It’s worse, in fact, because of how it impacts the draft. At this point as a fan, my primary wish is for the team to draft an elite core than can contend for the Cup and go on deep playoff runs for 5-10 years. To that end, regular season results only matter insofar as they impact draft position.

That’s probably not how most fans approach the team. But I expect I’m not alone, either.

I think you’d be surprised at how common it is. There’s fan relationship with a team comes in so many equal forms.

Despite the “hardcore” reputation of somewhere like CP, you’d probably have an easier time finding a passionate fan who doesn’t actually watch the games and just follows the box score than someone who watches every regular season game.

[Huntingwhale]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

Confession: I don’t find regular-season hockey entertaining to watch. Full-stop. Haven’t for many years. I follow hockey during the regular season by reading articles and analysis, following stats, etc., and watching maybe 10 or 12 full games in the regular season (some of which don’t involve the Flames).

I follow hockey because of the playoffs. The pace, intensity, emotion, and stakes are so, so much higher that it’s almost a different sport. I watch 1-2 games a night almost every night of the playoffs, including lots of games that the Flames aren’t participating in. That’s the juice.

So from my POV, a regular season finish just outside the playoffs is no better than a regular season finishing at the bottom of the league. It’s worse, in fact, because of how it impacts the draft. At this point as a fan, my primary wish is for the team to draft an elite core than can contend for the Cup and go on deep playoff runs for 5-10 years. To that end, regular season results only matter insofar as they impact draft position.

That’s probably not how most fans approach the team. But I expect I’m not alone, either.

Honestly, I am in the same boat as you. I have only watched a handful of games this year. Not just because they are losing a lot, but the league as a whole I have simply lost interest in over the past few years. Terrible reffing, gambling ads everywhere, Rogers Sportsnet as a whole, forced to stream on x services, blackouts even when watching games in Europe, etc. Add on constantly rising ticket/concession prices at live games, a local new arena fiasco and a seemingly terrible Flames PR team that can't get their messaging straight. The NHL has done a tremendous job when it comes to pushing fans away while chasing the almighty dollar. None of this will change until the old-ass NHL executive leadership begins to die off and a new guard comes in with a more modern approach.

I still love the stats, chatter on places like CP, highlights, etc. Will all that change if the team gets elite talent and becomes a long-term contender? Undoubtedly. After more than 3 decades of futility, many of us have earned the right to be bandwagoners after following religiously for years with little to show.

First time ever I am on team tank. I don't need another Steve Bégin having the best game of his career on game 80ish to knock the team off an elite draft pick so I can have the pleasure of saying I cheer for wins. Been there, done that. The team is tanking nice and hard and the reward should hopefully be worth it at the end.

[ForeverFlameFan]

I have made myself busy with my MBA program with the game on in the background. Definitely the best way of doing it. Learn a new skill, get a certification, spend time with your kids, play some board games, have the volume on and when something good happens you can look up. This team is very hard to stay invested in, even as a die-hard like me can admit.

We need short-term pain for long-term gain in the worst way.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

I think you’d be surprised at how common it is. There’s fan relationship with a team comes in so many equal forms.

Despite the “hardcore” reputation of somewhere like CP, you’d probably have an easier time finding a passionate fan who doesn’t actually watch the games and just follows the box score than someone who watches every regular season game.

Agreed. ‘Following hockey’ and ‘watching hockey’ are two related but different hobbies. My sense is CP skews more towards the former, while I’m sure there are loads of fans who watch 50+ Flames games a year and never post here, follow Elliot Friedman, or read draft previews.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Two years into their rebuild the Sharks were much worse than they were when they started. But Aarongavey didn’t even say that they would be much worse, just that they would still be at the bottom.

Sharks have a 6 year drought missing the playoffs while the Flames have a 4 year drought. The reality is that the Sharks are only 2 years ahead of the Flames even if it feels like they have been rebuilding for a long time. The Flames simply started their rebuild half way into their drought which is unfortunately going to extend the drought when all is said and done. Sharks approach has been much better as they already have their blue chip players (Flames have some nice prospects like Parekh, Reschny, Gridin but I wouldn't call them blue chippers) while the Flames are hoping to get their first this year.

[Johnny Makarov]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

I don't think anyone thought there was a Crosby available in the MacKinnon year.

Feaster? He offered all of our draft picks to the Avs that year didn't he?

[howard_the_duck]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

Agreed. ‘Following hockey’ and ‘watching hockey’ are two related but different hobbies. My sense is CP skews more towards the former, while I’m sure there are loads of fans who watch 50+ Flames games a year and never post here, follow Elliot Friedman, or read draft previews.

Contender or rebuild, it’s tough to find the time to sit down for 2.5 hours every other night for 5+ months, while also being a fan of other sports (Jays, NFL, etc). I found myself a bit fatigued of sports after following the Jays run so closely, and especially hard to get up to watch hockey games of a team nowhere near contention.

At the best of times, I can tune in on the weekends and maybe for a period or so during the odd weekday game, but its box score and CP after every game.

[taxbuster]

Good game to miss it seems, while out with the g’kids at ZOOlights. Don’t mind, and not surprised at, the result. Last game of a long “kinda road trip”.

On to the next (won’t be able to see that one either).

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

Confession: I don’t find regular-season hockey entertaining to watch. Full-stop. Haven’t for many years. I follow hockey during the regular season by reading articles and analysis, following stats, etc., and watching maybe 10 or 12 full games in the regular season (some of which don’t involve the Flames).

I follow hockey because of the playoffs. The pace, intensity, emotion, and stakes are so, so much higher that it’s almost a different sport. I watch 1-2 games a night almost every night of the playoffs, including lots of games that the Flames aren’t participating in. That’s the juice.

So from my POV, a regular season finish just outside the playoffs is no better than a regular season finishing at the bottom of the league. It’s worse, in fact, because of how it impacts the draft. At this point as a fan, my primary wish is for the team to draft an elite core than can contend for the Cup and go on deep playoff runs for 5-10 years. To that end, regular season results only matter insofar as they impact draft position.

That’s probably not how most fans approach the team. But I expect I’m not alone, either.

I'm invested in the Flames and watch every game I can but I honestly don't watch a lot of NHL games not involving the Flames. I may have HNIC on Saturday night for periods or watch the odd Oilers game when they are losing but I don't find a lot of the 82 game season that exciting or entertaining to watch as a lot of nights teams are just going through the motions. Whereas I watch a lot of NFL games not involving the Raiders because in a 17 game season, every game matters and I find football in general a little more entertaining to watch as a whole (excluding NHL playoff hockey which is right there with NFL playoff football for entertainment).

[Vinny01]

I see a lot of similarities with MacKinnon hype and McKenna hype. I remember hearing about MacKinnon at least 2 years before he was drafted as the next one and he was from the same hometown as Crosby and everything.

In his draft year it seemed like Seth Jones was getting his flowers and even Drouin was rising up the ranks as maybe the straw that stirred the drink in junior.

When the draft arrived though it was clear MacKinnon was going number 1.

Feaster offered the 6th, 22nd, and 28th pick for the first overall but the Avs declined.

McKenna was untouchable as the top pick until this season and he is now off the list for some of the scouting media who have Verheoff ranked higher

[Ba'alzamon]

Originally Posted by Johnny Makarov

Feaster? He offered all of our draft picks to the Avs that year didn't he?

I believe it was all three firsts, not all the picks.

The offering all the picks was the Islanders in 2012. They offered their entire draft class to Columbus to move up two spots and take Ryan Murray.

[Toonage]

Originally Posted by Ba'alzamon

I believe it was all three firsts, not all the picks.

The offering all the picks was the Islanders in 2012. They offered their entire draft class to Columbus to move up two spots and take Ryan Murray.

I have the same memory of Feaster saying he offered all of our picks to the Avs as well.

[CroFlames]

All I know is the rebuild after Iggy, Kipper and Jaybo left was more fun that watching that old and tired team chasing 8th.

Draft anticipation, watching young Monahan develop, hitting on a 6th round diamond in the rough, Bennett, Tkachuk, et al, and they morphed into a team that we EXPECTED to win on a nightly basis.

This season will suck but Coronato is fun. Wolf is fun. Zayne is unknown but the anticipation is fun. The only crappy part is we should have started this rebuild when Johnny and Tkachuk pulled the chute. Better late than never I guess.

[Macho0978]

I missed a couple games a year up until Tkachuk and Gaudreau left. I have slowly gone from watching every game to watching 10-15 games a year,

If we draft McKenna - I will watch 80 games a year again. IMO rebuilding is only very painful the 1st year. I tuned out of the most games the year after Iggy and Jay Bo were traded and Kipper retired. Tuned back in Johnny's rookie year.

Stenberg looks to be good enough to tune into 80 games as well.

Verhoeff might not be as exciting to watch, but he will give this franchise hope.

I go to games live based on what players I want to see. SJ was my first game, probably my first choice along with Chicago. Imagine having a player like that on our team.

My family doesn't like being in the same room as I am when the Flames lose, but I can stomach loses if we have an elite 18-year-old superstar.

[calumniate]

Scored more than the oilers last night!

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Sharks have a 6 year drought missing the playoffs while the Flames have a 4 year drought. The reality is that the Sharks are only 2 years ahead of the Flames even if it feels like they have been rebuilding for a long time. The Flames simply started their rebuild half way into their drought which is unfortunately going to extend the drought when all is said and done. Sharks approach has been much better as they already have their blue chip players (Flames have some nice prospects like Parekh, Reschny, Gridin but I wouldn't call them blue chippers) while the Flames are hoping to get their first this year.

Even though they were really bad and drafted Eklund back in 2021, I marked the start of their rebuild from 22-23 when they changed coaches and started getting rid of players. That year they drafted Smith. They went .366 to do so. Then they got worse and drafted Celebrini. Then they were still bad. Only this year are they crawling above 500 (and they still are pretty bad - look at the game they played against the Flames).