[News] Tkachuk, Gretzky, and Comm. Bettman set to be part of POTUS Trump's fitness committee

[Point Blank]

I know MAGA doesn’t care about facts but I’ll bite.

Too often like everything else MAGA, the argument is a complete oversimplification. Such as trans women = men. It’s a sign of people who rely on single sound bites that outrage over actually listening to the other side and trying to educate themselves.

When we talk about trans women in sports, we aren’t talking about a man cross dressing to compete with women.

We are talking about individuals who have undergone hormone replacement therapy, which has significant biological implications.

Currently, there isn’t enough evidence to support one way or the other that trans women outcompete non-trans women in sports. To truly know, we must have a massive sample size controlled for multiple sports over multiple years.

If they do, sure we should discuss policy. But the fact that there’s not enough evidence + trans women making up a minuscule fraction of athletes, and the complete disproportionate outrage MAGA has shown, so much as wasting tax dollars to assemble a committee of people who have zero credibility in understanding the science behind hormone replacement therapy (personal experience yes, as one of the members is Triple H, who literally used synthetic hormones that actually affects athletic performance), shows that the crux of the issue isn’t about women’s sports.

Just say you hate trans people because you’re afraid of people different from you. At least then you’re not insulting our intelligence with the obvious transphobia under the guise of protecting women’s sports.

I don’t claim to know one way or the other but at least I’m not trying to use it as an excuse to harm people who literally have nothing to do with my wellbeing.

[jayswin]

Wonderful post.

[btimbit]

Originally Posted by Redrum

It does. Your post kind of proves that at least a little.

No, your point fell pretty flat on its face immediately, as pointed out by several posts that you've ignored.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by OminousFlames

I assume you think he decided to move the moment he signed a bridge deal?
He was on one of the most productive lines in the NHL that season. Did he show signs of not liking Calgary at some point? His brother seems fine playing in Canada still.

He hated Covid restrictions, he's always said he wanted to play in the US (usually referencing St. Louis). He's not his brother.

[Redrum]

Originally Posted by btimbit

No, your point fell pretty flat on its face immediately, as pointed out by several posts that you've ignored.

Nope. I feel like you lost the point. Wasn't really up for debate, it's just something that happens here.

[MRCboicgy]

I also think it's cruel to trickle the transphobia down to kids sports, just let them play.


But the cruelty is the point. Bully them out of having a modicum of confidence and belonging through sport.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by OminousFlames

I assume you think he decided to move the moment he signed a bridge deal?
He was on one of the most productive lines in the NHL that season. Did he show signs of not liking Calgary at some point? His brother seems fine playing in Canada still.

Yes.
He learned well from pops
I don’t think it was an anti-Canada thing though
It was about him wanting to play in a small number of markets
I think he also wanted to be “the guy” and perhaps that is part of where Calgary went wrong is not making him “the guy”

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Redrum

Nope. I feel like you lost the point. Wasn't really up for debate, it's just something that happens here.

I think you’re really over-estimating how difficult to grasp and astute your point was. I’m sure it sounded a lot better in your head than it reads on the screen.

[Haplo]

Originally Posted by Point Blank

I know MAGA doesn’t care about facts but I’ll bite.

Any expert can tell you that if you've gone through male puberty, you have a huge advantage physically against any person who has not. That doesn't mean that all who have gone through male puberty will be better at sports than the best biological women. But it will be more obvious in very physically demanding sports, like for example boxing. Studies show that going through gender-affirming hormone therapy lessens that advantage over time and many countries have a two year ban until trans athletes are eligible for competition.

Whether or not those who have gone through male puberty should be able to compete in women's sports is a discussion worth having. Sports should be about fair competition. The cost is excluding a vulnerable group of women. It's unfortunate that the discussion always turn into pro or anti trans by seemingly fundamentalist sides.

[MrButtons]

Originally Posted by Point Blank

I know MAGA doesn’t care about facts but I’ll bite.

I'll happily join you; not with politics and this isnt about the NCAA, just highscool. I always have this ready to go whenever this comes up in sports

I'd encourage y'all to look at this letter the Gov from Utah wrote back in 2022.

https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2022...-ban-veto.html

Finally, there is one more important reason for this veto. I must admit, I am not an expert on transgenderism. I struggle to understand so much of it and the science is conflicting. When in doubt however, I always try to err on the side of kindness, mercy and compassion. I also try to get proximate and I am learning so much from our transgender community. They are great kids who face enormous struggles. Here are the numbers that have most impacted my decision: 75,000, 4, 1, 86 and 56.

● 75,000 high school kids participating in high school sports in Utah.

● 4 transgender kids playing high school sports in Utah.

● 1 transgender student playing girls sports.

● 86% of trans youth reporting suicidality.

● 56% of trans youth having attempted suicide

Four kids and only one of them playing girls sports. That’s what all of this is about. Four kids who aren’t dominating or winning trophies or taking scholarships. Four kids who are just trying to find some friends and feel like they are a part of something. Four kids trying to get through each day. Rarely has so much fear and anger been directed at so few. I don’t understand what they are going through or why they feel the way they do. But I want them to live. And all the research shows that even a little acceptance and connection can reduce suicidality significantly.

[jaikorven]

Originally Posted by MrButtons

I'll happily join you; not with politics and this isnt about the NCAA, just highscool. I always have this ready to go whenever this comes up in sports

I'd encourage y'all to look at this letter the Gov from Utah wrote back in 2022.

https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2022...-ban-veto.html

Excellent post and so on the mark. People just want to be accepted in a manner that matches how they feel about themselves, no matter the gender.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Haplo

Any expert can tell you that if you've gone through male puberty, you have a huge advantage physically against any person who has not. That doesn't mean that all who have gone through male puberty will be better at sports than the best biological women. But it will be more obvious in very physically demanding sports, like for example boxing. Studies show that going through gender-affirming hormone therapy lessens that advantage over time and many countries have a two year ban until trans athletes are eligible for competition.

Whether or not those who have gone through male puberty should be able to compete in women's sports is a discussion worth having. Sports should be about fair competition. The cost is excluding a vulnerable group of women. It's unfortunate that the discussion always turn into pro or anti trans by seemingly fundamentalist sides.

Funny you chose that example. Since there aren't any female trans boxer that are even competing.

[ResAlien]

Always a hoot to see who's willing to trade the rights of the most vulnerable people in society to placate their unfounded fears. As always, fix your hearts or die.

[Amethyst]

Originally Posted by blankall

I guess you can say that at least Tkachuk is honest and up-front about how self-serving he is.

As he should be. He has this one life and should make decisions about where he wants to live and play hockey according to his own interests, whatever they are.

[Haplo]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Funny you chose that example. Since there aren't any female trans boxer that are even competing.

Yeah very funny. Would it be better if I gave an example of a sport where I'd risk single out an individual?

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Haplo

Yeah very funny. Would it be better if I gave an example of a sport where I'd risk single out an individual?

You'd be hard pressed to find any. Because it's such an insignificant number.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by Haplo

Yeah very funny. Would it be better if I gave an example of a sport where I'd risk single out an individual?

What do you mean by risk singling out an individual? Like do you mean you know of an individual in a sport that you would be outing as transgender that the sporting world doesn't know is trans? I'm very confused at what you're getting at there.

[MBates]

Originally Posted by MrButtons

I'll happily join you; not with politics and this isnt about the NCAA, just highscool. I always have this ready to go whenever this comes up in sports

I'd encourage y'all to look at this letter the Gov from Utah wrote back in 2022.

https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2022...-ban-veto.html

Thank you for sharing this as I had not seen it before and it reassured me of a recent difficult decision I made to resign as a Director of the Board of Hockey Alberta effective August 1st.

I do not know if I will be in a position to publicly share my resignation letter, but what I can say is that, in my view, I could not comply with my oath as a lawyer and also comply with the Alberta government's overbroad discriminatory ban of certain kids from playing hockey with other kids with whom they feel they belong.

The final straw for me came when the government announced it would exempt out-of-province athletes from the application of the Fairness and Safety in Sport Regulation. It seems this was likely necessary (at least in hockey where the national and international governing bodies have inclusive evidence based policies that are incompatible with Alberta's ban) for the government to be sure they could still make truckloads of money from, and have the prestige of hosting, national championships and international events...of which several are already in the queue.

https://globalnews.ca/news/11286379/...ince-athletes/

https://edmontonjournal.com/news/loc...nto-2027-schow

So, in other words, biologically born male kids will still be allowed to play female-only hockey in Alberta (and hurt everyone on the ice and steal all the gold medals with impunity) so long as they don't live here.

Meanwhile, based on claims of protection of sport fairness and safety (but without supporting evidence or data), the government in essence had ordered me by legislation as a PSO Board member to do their dirty work and create and implement policies to ban any such Alberta kids aged 12 and above from playing female hockey. The ban applies regardless of the level of competition and without regard to any assessment of the skills or physical characteristics of the players.

Apparently recognizing most PSOs would have no legitimate purpose to suddenly invent and impose such policies (because this is not a real problem in the vast majority of circumstances), the government built in some state-compelled speech:

The policies established, implemented and maintained under section 3 of the Act by a board must

(a) state that the purpose of the policies is the promotion of fairness and safety in sport,

https://www.canlii.org/en/ab/laws/re...-124-2025.html

Because, you know, all the most good faith and honest purposes for doing something that you were never otherwise going to do are the purposes you are legally mandated by the government to claim as your purposes even when they are not.

This is especially so when you contemplate some of the other PSOs that also must ban biologically born male kids for the obvious fairness and safety catastrophes that would otherwise result in female archery, curling, baton twirling, equestrian, horseshoe pitching, and shooting (the full list is included in the regulation at the link above if you want to find some more).

My personal views would likely align with the Utah Governor. I am not an activist for any 'side' of this issue. But to put a fine point on it, you do not need to be an activist to know right from wrong.

And to borrow the words of the Governor, Albertans are now banning "...kids who aren’t dominating or winning trophies or taking scholarships...kids who are just trying to find some friends and feel like they are a part of something...kids trying to get through each day. Rarely has so much fear and anger been directed at so few. I don’t understand what they are going through or why they feel the way they do. But I want them to live..."

[Monahammer]

Respect to you, MBates.

[Goriders]

How did this thread not end up in the off topic section. It’s got all of the associated venom.