Don Cherry wasnt racist, but wasn't progressive or politically correct either. I think he was just from a different era and remained on HNIC well past his best before date, long after he had become unrelatable to many younger Canadians, especially those who were urban, progressives. His view of Canadian values less and less represented the present. And he became a symbol to old, white Canadians of the old times, when people had more respect, honesty, integrity. Times changed, but HNIC refused to move on from Cherry. Until they were ready.
And then they did him dirty which was upsetting. He deserved something more fitting of a loyal, long term face of the show. But it was long past time for him to go.
Ron did him dirty too, but probably has created an internal narrative that allows him to live with himself without being a ####ty friend and colleague who saved himself instead of standing up for Cherry. Everyone is the hero of their own story.
Its not even just that, and I dont know everything that happened behind the scenes, but its pretty clear that Cherry, despite being a colleague, was in Ron's way. Its no coincidence that once Cherry was gone Ron slid into his spot so fast the chair was still warm.
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Not sure you picked up what he was actually saying.
He's suggesting he may not have been an actual bigot if you excuse pro Canada nationalism.
He tended to not want players taking Canadian jobs in the NHL.
He pushed hard for respect for the military and first responders.
I think nationalism can get you in trouble. It got him in trouble.
I think he was a bigot if you let "everyone else" be a group that he didn't like (anyone but Canadians) but I don't think I recall any ethnic or race specific bigotry.
He had to go. It ran it's course. I just wish they found him a softer landing.
Is sharing highlights of Europeans being soft being nationalistic?
Why do you think he deserved a soft landing? A person like him got what he deserved.
Huh? Don regularly made bigoted comments about Europeans, Russians, Swedes, Women, “people who come here,” French Canadians, etc.
He specifically targeted people all the time. Homophobic comments, misogynistic comments, basically his whole schtick was standing up for straight, white, old stock Canadian men and putting down everyone else.
He wasn’t “just” nationalistic, and anyone who is pretending he was just a product of his time is being stupid, he was criticized repeatedly for his comments over the past 30 years. There are articles from the 90s of Don’s controversial bigotry. People who think it was ever “OK” just want to excuse their own past and present.
Unfortunately a lot of those things were normal then.
Not saying it was correct, fair or tasteful, but if you remember what casual adult conversations entailed back then, pretty much every family had one or two people that would get totally lynch mobbed today for their everyday behavior then.
Don was already an old man by the 2000s when culture started to shift for the better. How easy do you think it is to undo decades of worldview programming?
Every one of us probably has that mildly bigoted and homophobic parent/grandparent/uncle. I have about 3-4 in my family and while hearing their embarrassing and tone deaf takes on "young people" expressing themselves we can push back on them but expecting any radical change this far into their lives is unrealistic, and we dont just stop loving them because of it.
The "product of their time" argument does hold merit. Usually you can get someone to be more hushed and polite with extensive open discussion on the issue, but the underlying beliefs will remain. Its just the way of people, they're just not that malleable and receptive, even to what seems like well reasoned logic.
And when we get old and more set in our views im sure those will become outdated and we'll get flak from future generations all the same.
It doesn't mean we stop trying to reason with and challenge them, but we should also keep expectations in check about how receptive and willing to change they're going to be.
I personally think he was so pro Canada that it got cringey ... said it above.
No need to refer to me or others as stupid, nor infer we are trying to cover for our own indiscretions.
Just disagree dude. I don't need you to agree with me or others.
Didn’t mean to include you in the insult, wasn’t directed your way. More to the posters trying to explain away his bigotry because it was OK to say once upon a time, who conveniently have shared some pretty bigoted comments in the years I’ve been here myself (even recently).
Given that we’ve disagreed plenty without exchanging insults, not sure your suggestion that I can’t is much better, if your aim was to be better.
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Nobody was off limits including french players. He gained his popularity back in the day via controversial takes that haven't aged well. I said it from the start that it was a mistake for Rogers to bring back both Cherry and MacLean but expecting Rogers to do the right thing is like expecting Trump to understand how tariffs work which is simply too much to ask.
I feel like I remember the opposite happening during the Rogers takeover of HNIC. There were rumours swirling that they wanted to make a major shape up in trying to get younger and hipper and didn't want coaches corner and specifically Don Cherry and the general mood around the rumours was "you'll have a whole country rioting, they're an institution.
Is sharing highlights of Europeans being soft being nationalistic?
Why do you think he deserved a soft landing? A person like him got what he deserved.
We are debating what the person is.
If you want to think calling Swedes soft in support of Canadian hockey players is bigoted and racist and he needs to be erased from the lexicon of Canada hockey history ... fill your boots.
But I think there is another view where he was over the top as a nationalist and the with that and changing times his schtick ran it's course. I PERSONALLY don't think he needed to be publicly ridiculed and erased.
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Didn’t mean to include you in the insult, wasn’t directed your way. More to the posters trying to explain away his bigotry because it was OK to say once upon a time, who conveniently have shared some pretty bigoted comments in the years I’ve been here myself (even recently).
Given that we’ve disagreed plenty without exchanging insults, not sure your suggestion that I can’t is much better, if your aim was to be better.
Well you didn't reply to anyone in particular and certainly referred to terms like bigotry and nationalist which I certainly stated.
Thanks for the clarification, but how is anyone to know who you're calling stupid (which you shouldn't do anyway) when you put out a blanket post that refers to many things said by more than one person?
Don Cherry is and was a bigot. He was a misogynist, a homophobe, a xenophobe and a racist. If you don't think he was any of these things, you don't fully understand the terms. He likely believes that he is none of these things in his heart of hearts but you are what you do and say. To be fair, he never overtly artacked people based on race and he loved Stan Jonathon. He was an embarrassment even in the 90s. Hockey has evolved but he didn't. Having said all that, Ron MacLean is an insufferable blowhard phony who has no credibility on Cherry or much of anything else. It's long past time we had some fresh faces and voices.
He was definitely a flawed individual. The more flawed the more interesting unfortunately.
You want Mr. Rogers talking about hockey or some dick who says some dumb crap. It's basically the entire premise of this place. Pepsi feels better about all the dumb people he is better than and we can yabber about dumb things. Everyone is satisfied.
Don Cherry is and was a bigot. He was a misogynist, a homophobe, a xenophobe and a racist. If you don't think he was any of these things, you don't fully understand the terms. He likely believes that he is none of these things in his heart of hearts but you are what you do and say. To be fair, he never overtly artacked people based on race and he loved Stan Jonathon. He was an embarrassment even in the 90s. Hockey has evolved but he didn't. Having said all that, Ron MacLean is an insufferable blowhard phony who has no credibility on Cherry or much of anything else. It's long past time we had some fresh faces and voices.
He was definitely a flawed individual. The more flawed the more interesting unfortunately.
Nobody's going to tune in to watch Ned Flanders and good natured takes. Watching flawed individuals provide their often flawed personal takes is what people consider more interesting. It's just the reality of entertainment these days.
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Well you didn't reply to anyone in particular and certainly referred to terms like bigotry and nationalist which I certainly stated.
Thanks for the clarification, but how is anyone to know who you're calling stupid (which you shouldn't do anyway) when you put out a blanket post that refers to many things said by more than one person?
You didn't have any aim at all.
And that’s fair. I’m sorry.
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Part of my objections to Cherry was that he was given such a big platform, including on a national broadcaster. I just didn't understand why that was allowed to continue for so long except for ratings.
And I also took major issues with his comments on concussions, even as the long-term severity of them was more understood. It's largely been buried because of his career ending rant, but a week before that he was also in hot water for laughing off this incident:
But back to the root of it, a lot of his comments are the type of quiet racism that is really damaging. It's the making fun of names:
“Alpo? Isn't that a dog food?"
It's the broad comments about entire groups:
“I’ve been trying to tell you people for so long about the Russians, what kind of people they are, and you just love them in Canada with your multiculturalism. They’re quitters and evidently they take a lot of drugs, too.”
It's the implication that certain cultures are weak including if they wear visors:
“Most of the guys that wear them are Europeans and French guys,” Cherry said.
It's the sexism:
"When you come to the games, keep your eyes on the puck. I’m telling ya, I’ve seen some awful smacks, and it’s always a woman yapping away there. Look at the game," Cherry remarked, after a woman was struck with an errant puck
I don't know what word to label him with, and perhaps trying to come up with a singular label is the mistake. But I think he was a narrow minded individual who spouted a lot of terrible things, and abused the platform he had. And it was allowed to go on for far too long.
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I don't know what word to label him with, and perhaps trying to come up with a singular label is the mistake. But I think he was a narrow minded individual who spouted a lot of terrible things, and abused the platform he had. And it was allowed to go on for far too long.
The word you are looking for is bigot. He was bigoted on national TV for decades.
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But back to the root of it, a lot of his comments are the type of quiet racism that is really damaging. It's the making fun of names:
“Alpo? Isn't that a dog food?"
As a child from a European immigrant family with foreign sounding names, it wasn't great watching HNIC as a kid to hear Cherry spout off about how he felt people like us were effeminate losers. The name thing, I get it when it when people honestly mispronounce it and don't get offended by that, but Cherry would always do the "accidentally on purpose" thing thinking it was funny. I put up with a lot of that as kid from other kids and even sometimes adults like teachers in school. Having a Canadian icon on TV making it seem like a funny and cool thing to do probably didn't help.
Unrelated, what were the things in MacLean's book that were eye opening to you? I never read it and don't really have a burning desire to, but now I am really curious.
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As a child from a European immigrant family with foreign sounding names, it wasn't great watching HNIC as a kid to hear Cherry spout off about how he felt people like us were effeminate losers. The name thing, I get it when it when people honestly mispronounce it and don't get offended by that, but Cherry would always do the "accidentally on purpose" thing thinking it was funny. I put up with a lot of that as kid from other kids and even sometimes adults like teachers in school. Having a Canadian icon on TV making it seem like a funny and cool thing to do probably didn't help.
Unrelated, what were the things in MacLean's book that were eye opening to you? I never read it and don't really have a burning desire to, but now I am really curious.
It's been a number of years since I read MacLean's book but just was very clear that he was ultimately out for himself, and consider himself to be absolute hot ####.
I put the book down and thought "wow that guy is a way bigger jerk than I thought".
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Don Cherry is and was a bigot. He was a misogynist, a homophobe, a xenophobe and a racist. If you don't think he was any of these things, you don't fully understand the terms. He likely believes that he is none of these things in his heart of hearts but you are what you do and say. To be fair, he never overtly artacked people based on race and he loved Stan Jonathon. He was an embarrassment even in the 90s. Hockey has evolved but he didn't. Having said all that, Ron MacLean is an insufferable blowhard phony who has no credibility on Cherry or much of anything else. It's long past time we had some fresh faces and voices.
Even he knew he couldn't up and say overtly racist things, but he sure hinted at them. And, like most bigots, he had exceptions for certain individuals (mainly minorities he knew personally).
I always disliked him, even in the 80s, and while I can't prove it, I always felt like his patriotism was performative. I also hated how his intro was pretty much as long as his segment. It was such a dumb segment. Even todays Oiler happy panels are better.
